NC gov's exit shakes up vote on gay marriage ban

Jan 27, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: KTUL-TV Tulsa

Something unexpected happened on the way to North Carolina's vote on a gay marriage ban this May: Democratic Gov.

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“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#1
Jan 27, 2012
 
The North Carolina group is the first time I've seen a serious defense mounted in the South. It's a shame that this news only means that the measure will pass by 65% instead of 70%.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

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#2
Jan 27, 2012
 
Yep, this is a lost cause. I'm not sure it's worth spending even a single penny in opposition. The only way marriage equality is coming to any state below the Manson-Nixon line is from the SCOTUS; and that won't happen till the end of the decade.

“IT'S TIME TO ELIMINATE”

Since: Mar 11

PROP 8 AND DOMA!!!

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#3
Jan 27, 2012
 
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Yep, this is a lost cause. I'm not sure it's worth spending even a single penny in opposition. The only way marriage equality is coming to any state below the Manson-Nixon line is from the SCOTUS; and that won't happen till the end of the decade.
Do you know where the Mason-Dixon line actually is? It's a lot higher than I thought......lol!!!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

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#4
Jan 27, 2012
 
RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know where the Mason-Dixon line actually is? It's a lot higher than I thought......lol!!!
At the top of Maryland. Hopefully they will be the one exception to the southern bans.

“IT'S TIME TO ELIMINATE”

Since: Mar 11

PROP 8 AND DOMA!!!

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#5
Jan 27, 2012
 
WeTheSheeple wrote:
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At the top of Maryland. Hopefully they will be the one exception to the southern bans.
Let's hope.......we could gain Washington and Maine this year, possibly California, through the courts, but that's an anybody guess thing......we could gain New Jersey and Maryland......but both look to be long shots.......Minnesota and North Carolina are also states that could go against us.....or on a surprise, with us.....but, I'm not counting on them.....at least not yet!!!
Tucksun Jack

Tucson, AZ

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#6
Jan 27, 2012
 

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RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know where the Mason-Dixon line actually is? It's a lot higher than I thought......lol!!!
It starts in Pennsylvania which is considered a northeastern state.
Romneys Spastax Deduction

Philadelphia, PA

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#7
Jan 27, 2012
 
In other words this exit doesn't really change a thing.
Tucksun Jack

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#8
Jan 27, 2012
 

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Tha Mason-Dixon Line informally devides the northern states from the southern states. It extends into the State Of West Virginia, which, at the time Mason & Dixon performed their survey, was part of the Commonwealth Of Virginia.

While many people consider West Virginia and Virginia to be "Southern States", the northernmost area of West Virginia (and hence the northernmost part of Virginia when it was part of that state) extends FURTHER NORTH than the southernmost part of the State Of New York. Hence, a "southern state" is in part actually further north than a "northern state".

The Mason-Dixon Line, separating Pennsylvania, a "northern state" from Maryland, a "southern state" defines the border between the 2 states and is, by definition, at 3943&#8242;19.92216&# 8243; N at the longitudnal border of those 2 states.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#9
Jan 27, 2012
 

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RnL2008 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know where the Mason-Dixon line actually is? It's a lot higher than I thought......lol!!!
Yes: It's the southern border of PA. I grew up just above the Mason-Dixon Line, but my parents had a summer home in Maryland. So I also spent a lot of time below the line. Believe me: People are different when you cross the line!

“IT'S TIME TO ELIMINATE”

Since: Mar 11

PROP 8 AND DOMA!!!

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#10
Jan 27, 2012
 
nhjeff wrote:
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Yes: It's the southern border of PA. I grew up just above the Mason-Dixon Line, but my parents had a summer home in Maryland. So I also spent a lot of time below the line. Believe me: People are different when you cross the line!
I don't disagree with you.....for a long time, I thought it was a lot lower.....imagine my surprise when I discovered just where it actually was.......lol!!!

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#11
Jan 27, 2012
 
RnL2008 wrote:
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I don't disagree with you.....for a long time, I thought it was a lot lower.....imagine my surprise when I discovered just where it actually was.......lol!!!
I guess a lot of people don't realize how stark the line is. A lot of New Englanders look at me funny when I refer to Maryland and Virginia as the South. They're not the Deep South, but they sure aren't the Northeast!
Tucksun Jack

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Jan 27, 2012
 

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nhjeff wrote:
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I guess a lot of people don't realize how stark the line is. A lot of New Englanders look at me funny when I refer to Maryland and Virginia as the South. They're not the Deep South, but they sure aren't the Northeast!
Why would a New Englander lok at you funny ? Maryland and Virginia have always been considered southern states as far as I know.

Despite some of the original Virginia (now part of West Virgina) being further north than parts of New York.

Since: May 09

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Jan 27, 2012
 

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Even if the ban passes, it will pass by a smaller margin than such bans have passed in the past. The demographic transition on this issue is inexorable; more and more young people are reaching voting age or are finally getting involved enough to vote, so there will be signs of progress, even as the ban is passed.

Keep pointing out the long-term trend, the fact that people under the age of 35 support marriage equality by nearly 70%, and don't give up.

It is a matter of when, not if.
Tucksun Jack

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Jan 27, 2012
 

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Sergio23 wrote:
Even if the ban passes, it will pass by a smaller margin than such bans have passed in the past. The demographic transition on this issue is inexorable; more and more young people are reaching voting age or are finally getting involved enough to vote, so there will be signs of progress, even as the ban is passed.
Keep pointing out the long-term trend, the fact that people under the age of 35 support marriage equality by nearly 70%, and don't give up.
It is a matter of when, not if.
I agree. And in the [near](I realize that's a relative word) future, SCOTUS will one day rule that banning the marriage of gay and lesbian Americans is just as unconstitutional as was the banning of interracial couples.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

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#15
Jan 28, 2012
 
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes: It's the southern border of PA. I grew up just above the Mason-Dixon Line, but my parents had a summer home in Maryland. So I also spent a lot of time below the line. Believe me: People are different when you cross the line!
That's why I always refer to it as the "Manson-Nixon" line; they ARE different down there!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

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#16
Jan 28, 2012
 
RnL2008 wrote:
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Let's hope.......we could gain Washington and Maine this year, possibly California, through the courts, but that's an anybody guess thing......we could gain New Jersey and Maryland......but both look to be long shots.......Minnesota and North Carolina are also states that could go against us.....or on a surprise, with us.....but, I'm not counting on them.....at least not yet!!!
Agreed.

I really think it's imperative we win in Washington & Maine. Besides the obvious benefit, it would also be the clearest indication that attitudes are indeed changing. No longer would the anti-gays be able to claim the will of the people is being ignored. Especially when we can directly compare the results in Maine to the 2009 vote. Of course they'll just blame it on those "northeast liberals" or "west coast liberals", but even they know it's the beginning of the end for them when that happens. That's why I expect they will spend every penny they have in Maine & Washington.

“IT'S TIME TO ELIMINATE”

Since: Mar 11

PROP 8 AND DOMA!!!

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#17
Jan 28, 2012
 
WeTheSheeple wrote:
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Agreed.
I really think it's imperative we win in Washington & Maine. Besides the obvious benefit, it would also be the clearest indication that attitudes are indeed changing. No longer would the anti-gays be able to claim the will of the people is being ignored. Especially when we can directly compare the results in Maine to the 2009 vote. Of course they'll just blame it on those "northeast liberals" or "west coast liberals", but even they know it's the beginning of the end for them when that happens. That's why I expect they will spend every penny they have in Maine & Washington.
I agree and will keep an eye on their progress!!!

Since: May 09

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#18
Jan 28, 2012
 
I hope that marriage equality supporters learned from Prop. 8. There was a complacency here after the early polls showed it would fail, and a feeble response when the Mormons and others launched their fear-based campaign.

Where was the positive portrayal of our gay neighbors and friends, of families where various members happened to be gay, etc.? With so much intelligence and creativity in the gay community and among the allies, there should have been a much better effort to reach the people in the middle.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#19
Jan 29, 2012
 
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed.
I really think it's imperative we win in Washington & Maine. Besides the obvious benefit, it would also be the clearest indication that attitudes are indeed changing. No longer would the anti-gays be able to claim the will of the people is being ignored. Especially when we can directly compare the results in Maine to the 2009 vote. Of course they'll just blame it on those "northeast liberals" or "west coast liberals", but even they know it's the beginning of the end for them when that happens. That's why I expect they will spend every penny they have in Maine & Washington.
So do you think that we should emphasize Maine and Washington (and possibly Maryland) with our limited resources? Let Minnesota and North Carolina fall?

Going into this, I would have expected Minnesota to mount a credible defense against the amendment. From what I've seen, however, North Carolina has a far more spirited defense. Broad polls opposing an amendment are somewhat encouraging, but I think three things will kill us badly in North Carolina: Demographics, the questions actually being asked by pollsters, and the differences in answers people provide to pollsters and in private.

Bottom line, I think North Carolinans are likely to be convinced that the amendment preserves status quo, and that they will oppose change in large percentages. But I can't see that Minnesota is even defending itself.

So shall we just throw all our support to the two states that might win?

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#20
Jan 29, 2012
 
Sergio23 wrote:
I hope that marriage equality supporters learned from Prop. 8. There was a complacency here after the early polls showed it would fail, and a feeble response when the Mormons and others launched their fear-based campaign.
Where was the positive portrayal of our gay neighbors and friends, of families where various members happened to be gay, etc.? With so much intelligence and creativity in the gay community and among the allies, there should have been a much better effort to reach the people in the middle.
I was shocked, frankly, by what I perceived as complacency during the Prop 8 battle. But I think Maine and Washington showed in 2009 that they knew how to organize a credible defense.

Mainers' skills and resolve have been honed by multiple previous voter initiatives, including three attempts to repeal non-discrimination laws (two successful). Although they lost in 2009, everyone agreed they ran an excellent effort. Having done the hard work to eventually win at the ballot, I think they know how to build support over time.

North Carolina also seems to be mounting a vigorous defense. I can't tell, however, that other states like Minnesota are up for the battle.

No matter what, it's going to be an interesting election season.

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