A rational response to atheists

Dear atheists: I know you pride yourselves on being the most rationally-minded people. Full Story
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Since: Sep 08

San Antonio, TX

#1 Sep 29, 2008
I think mr Kessinger doesnt understand that atheism is not a belief system or ideology of any sort. Lack of beliefs is harldy a belief. There's not much I have in common with other people who lack the same belief or beliefs. I might in some cases but again having a lack of belief is not much to go on. So I think the professor is crying over little. Having the atheist position is superior until the burden of proof is made by the religious. Now if those same people have other beliefs of superstitution that still does not denigrate the position of atheism. :)
rockymtn4

Broomfield, CO

#2 Oct 6, 2008
stormshadow wrote:
Having the atheist position is superior until the burden of proof is made by the religious.
Finally, an atheist reaffirms what is already known; that atheists are merely concerned with be "superior". Too bad this line of humanistic thinking will be their ruin.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#3 Oct 6, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally, an atheist reaffirms what is already known; that atheists are merely concerned with be "superior". Too bad this line of humanistic thinking will be their ruin.
You're misrepresenting the comment in order to knock it down. Not a big surprise, typical of many Christians.
The writer of the post is in no way saying that he/she is, or is aspiring to be "superior". What was said is that lack of belief is a superior position to belief when no evidence is given.
Just like you would say that your non-belief in Scientology, the Krishnas or drinking cyanide-laced kool-aid is superior to the believer of these mentally destructive cults who harm themselves and try to recruit others into the madness.
rockymtn4

Broomfield, CO

#4 Oct 6, 2008
Headhunter 300M wrote:
<quoted text>
You're misrepresenting the comment in order to knock it down. Not a big surprise, typical of many Christians.
The writer of the post is in no way saying that he/she is, or is aspiring to be "superior". What was said is that lack of belief is a superior position to belief when no evidence is given.
Just like you would say that your non-belief in Scientology, the Krishnas or drinking cyanide-laced kool-aid is superior to the believer of these mentally destructive cults who harm themselves and try to recruit others into the madness.
Hate to break it to you but I abstain from calling my personal beliefs superior to others but you go ahead and make those comments about those groups being mentally destructive cults and using the word "madness"

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#5 Oct 6, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hate to break it to you but I abstain from calling my personal beliefs superior to others but you go ahead and make those comments about those groups being mentally destructive cults and using the word "madness"
I seriously doubt that. You may have never uttered the words "my beliefs are superior to yours", but you've surely viewed and treated people with differing or no religious belief as "lost" or in need of help. The fact that you're arguing these things on a public forum sure doesn't show that you respect everyone's viewpoint as equally valid, does it?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#6 Oct 7, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally, an atheist reaffirms what is already known; that atheists are merely concerned with be "superior". Too bad this line of humanistic thinking will be their ruin.
You misunderstand the statement. It is NOT to say that the atheist is superior. The argument is that the empirical position is superior in that it demands evidential proof prior to acceptance.

Would you argue that accepting anybody's assertions as true prior to evidence is the more superior position?

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#7 Oct 7, 2008
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
You misunderstand the statement. It is NOT to say that the atheist is superior. The argument is that the empirical position is superior in that it demands evidential proof prior to acceptance.
Would you argue that accepting anybody's assertions as true prior to evidence is the more superior position?
People like this intentionally misunderstand things. Then they claim victory by running away to pray for you.
rockymtn4

Broomfield, CO

#8 Oct 7, 2008
Headhunter 300M wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt that. You may have never uttered the words "my beliefs are superior to yours", but you've surely viewed and treated people with differing or no religious belief as "lost" or in need of help. The fact that you're arguing these things on a public forum sure doesn't show that you respect everyone's viewpoint as equally valid, does it?
I didn't believe that I was arguing maybe your a little too sensitive. Discussing opposing viewpoints is the only way people begin to understand each other but it seems to me that you think you know me even though you make assumptions that are incorrect.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#9 Oct 7, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't believe that I was arguing maybe your a little too sensitive. Discussing opposing viewpoints is the only way people begin to understand each other but it seems to me that you think you know me even though you make assumptions that are incorrect.
Well, I would interpret this as arguing, or looking for one:
"Finally, an atheist reaffirms what is already known; that atheists are merely concerned with be "superior". Too bad this line of humanistic thinking will be their ruin."
I know of no Atheist personally that thinks in such a way, yet I took your comment as a judgement of all Atheists.
I'll try to do better about jumping to conclusions, but would ask the same of you.
Heather

UK

#10 Oct 8, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally, an atheist reaffirms what is already known; that atheists are merely concerned with be "superior". Too bad this line of humanistic thinking will be their ruin.

I think Stormshadow gave quite a sensible reply.
Besides, if there is no God, it's reasonable to believe that we are the superior being. Not superior to God, because they don't believe in him! If an atheist suddenly discovered God was real, would they still think they were superior?
Probably not.
Why do you work so hard on making atheism look arrogant when all it really is is a lack of beliefs? You should quit trying to group people, because you'll meet no two atheists alike on here.
Many atheists don't even come on this forum because they're busy living their lives and not thinking about how superior they are.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#11 Oct 8, 2008
Heather wrote:
<quoted text>
I think Stormshadow gave quite a sensible reply.
Besides, if there is no God, it's reasonable to believe that we are the superior being. Not superior to God, because they don't believe in him! If an atheist suddenly discovered God was real, would they still think they were superior?
Probably not.
Why do you work so hard on making atheism look arrogant when all it really is is a lack of beliefs? You should quit trying to group people, because you'll meet no two atheists alike on here.
Many atheists don't even come on this forum because they're busy living their lives and not thinking about how superior they are.
Hi Heather, how have you been?

Good post. Another point to ponder: what could be more arrogant than believing that the creator of the universe takes an interest in you personally, and favors you over others?
rockymtn4

Broomfield, CO

#12 Oct 8, 2008
Headhunter 300M wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Heather, how have you been?
Good post. Another point to ponder: what could be more arrogant than believing that the creator of the universe takes an interest in you personally, and favors you over others?
So as a parent who created children you don't take a personal interest in them? Of course you take a personal interest in them just like God does to us.

God cares for all and extends a free gift to live with Him forever. It is up to each individual whether to take Him up on this offer.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#13 Oct 8, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
So as a parent who created children you don't take a personal interest in them? Of course you take a personal interest in them just like God does to us.
Of course I take a personal interest in them. There is direct, tangible evidence that I do.
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>God cares for all and extends a free gift to live with Him forever. It is up to each individual whether to take Him up on this offer.
This sums it up better than I could:
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/~jdevor/links/Kiss... 'sAss.txt

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#14 Oct 8, 2008
Link didn't work, will try again.

www.harvard.edu/~jdevor/links/KissingHank 'sAss.txt

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#15 Oct 8, 2008
Kissing Hank's Ass: A Religious Parody
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I
answered the door he found a well groomed, nicely dressed
couple.
The man spoke first: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary
"Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me
"Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why
would I want to kiss his ass?"
John
"If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and
if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."
Me
"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John
"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town.
Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants and what he
wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you
kiss his ass."
Me
"That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary
"Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million
dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me
"Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John
"Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me
"Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary
"Oh yes, all the time..."
Me
"And has he given you a million dollars?"
John
"Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me
"So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary
"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the
money, and he kicks the shit out of you."
Me
"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got
the million dollars?"
John
"My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last
year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me
"Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John
"Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me
"So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if
you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary
"Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll
get a raise; maybe you'll win a small lotto; maybe you'll just
find a twenty dollar bill on the street."
Me
"What's that got to do with Hank?"
John
"Hank has certain connections."
Me
"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John
"But it's a million dollars! Can you really take the chance?
And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit
of you."
Me
"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details
straight from him..."
Mary
"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me
"Then how do you kiss his ass?"
John
"Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other
times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me
"Who's Karl?"
Mary
"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing
Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few
times."
Me
"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a
Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank
would reward you?"
John
"Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining
the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#16 Oct 8, 2008
John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the
desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:
1.) Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when
you leave town.
2.) Use alcohol in moderation.
3.) Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
4.) Eat right.
5.) Hank dictated this list himself.
6.) The moon is made of green cheese.
7.) Everything Hank says is right.
8.) Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
9.) Don't drink.
10.) Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
11.) Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.
Me
"This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary
"Hank didn't have any paper."
Me
"I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John
"Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me
"I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary
"Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."
Me
"I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of
philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because
they're different?"
Mary
"It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me
"How do you figure that?"
Mary
"Item 7 says Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good
enough for me!"
Me
"Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John
"No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.'
Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4
says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going
to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so
the rest must be true, too."
Me
"But #9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with #2. And
#6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just
plain wrong."
John
"There's no contradiction between 9 and 2; 9 just clarifies 2.
As to 6, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for
sure."
Me
"Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is
made of rock..."
Mary
"But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from
outer space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me
"I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon
came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing
where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
John
"Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we
know Hank is always right!"
Me
"We do?"
Mary
"Of course we do, Item 5 says so."
Me
"You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so,
the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that
Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular
logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says
he's right.'"
John
"Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come
around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me
"But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
Mary blushes.
John
"Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything
else is wrong."
Me
"What if I don't have a bun?"
John
"No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
Me
"No relish? No Mustard?"
Mary looks positively stricken.
John shouts
"There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are
wrong!"
Me
"So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it
would be out of the question?"
Mary (sticking her fingers in her ears)
"I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."
John
"That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat
that..."
Me
"It's good! I eat it all the time."
Mary faints.
John (catching her)
"Well, if I'd known you were one of those, I wouldn't have
wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you, I'll be
there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for
you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater." With this, John
dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
rockymtn4

Broomfield, CO

#17 Oct 8, 2008
Headhunter 300M wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I take a personal interest in them. There is direct, tangible evidence that I do.
<quoted text>
This sums it up better than I could:
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/~jdevor/links/Kiss... 'sAss.txt
I believe that there is evidence that God takes an interest in us. It is my belief that this world is tangible evidence. You are free to deny that God created this world, the cosmos, and everything contained within it but I see it as God's doing.

It's a creative parody but, in my opinion, doesn't reflect the kingdom of heaven and eternal life with God. I would possibly portray heaven like a club with unlimited benefits. All you have to do to join is believe that the Founder wanted you so much that He paid your admission into the club. There are people who would rather not join this club and the Founder doesn't force them into the club but allows them to spend the rest of their days outside of the walls of the clubhouse.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#18 Oct 8, 2008
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that there is evidence that God takes an interest in us. It is my belief that this world is tangible evidence. You are free to deny that God created this world, the cosmos, and everything contained within it but I see it as God's doing.
The god that you are speaking of is an invention of more primitive men that had very limited knowledge. I can't state I have all of the answers, but the gaps continue to shrink. When these stories were "revealed", it was believed mental illness was demonic possession. That the world and all life upon it was created in six days. I can't rule out a super-natural creator, but see no reason to have a positive belief for one.
rockymtn4 wrote:
<quoted text>It's a creative parody but, in my opinion, doesn't reflect the kingdom of heaven and eternal life with God. I would possibly portray heaven like a club with unlimited benefits. All you have to do to join is believe that the Founder wanted you so much that He paid your admission into the club. There are people who would rather not join this club and the Founder doesn't force them into the club but allows them to spend the rest of their days outside of the walls of the clubhouse.
I think you missed the point of the parody. You believe this because someone told you, and someone else told that person, and on and on.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

#19 Oct 17, 2008
from the article: "And what's wrong with the other 69 percent of us who tolerate this?"

um, the point of atheism is that each person decides for themselves what they believe, their morals, and how they conduct themselves

there is no dogma, rituals or party line

skeptics are different from atheists

a skeptic requires proof of a claim

atheists simply have no religious beleifs - it does not prevent them from beleiving in ghosts, healing crystals

while skeptics are athiests, not all athiests are skeptics
Hercolubus

Romania

#20 Oct 18, 2008
*** Secret UN Meetings on ET Life Continue: Threats Used to Prevent Diplomatic Leaks:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/773...
*** BBC: Secret Files on UFO Sightings Have Been Made Available for the First Time by the Ministry of Defence:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7398108.st...
*** BBC: Scientists Meet for Alien Summit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/e...
*** The Return of Planet X - International Conference - Roma 2009:
http://www.segnidalcielo.it/PlanetXConference... *** NASA and Planet X:
http://www.australia.to/story/0,25197,2304046...
*** Vatican and Planet X:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopoliti...
*** AMAZON.COM : Planet Eris and the Global Warming: http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Global-Warming-C...

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