Economists: Job effects of immigratio...

Economists: Job effects of immigration law unclear

There are 13 comments on the washingtonexaminer.com story from Dec 4, 2011, titled Economists: Job effects of immigration law unclear. In it, washingtonexaminer.com reports that:

Economists say it may take years and extensive research to determine whether Alabama's new law clamping down on illegal immigration helps or hurts the state's job market.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at washingtonexaminer.com.

“Assimilate & Speak English!”

Since: Jan 07

Lansing, IL - now: Pomp Bch FL

#2 Dec 4, 2011
Years? They don't belong here. Period.

Get the unemployed Americans to work. We survived without millions of illegals in the past and we'll survive without them again. End of story.

“Land of Entrapment”

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#3 Dec 5, 2011
WHO CARES what the advocates say...the majority of the People, as in WE the People no longer run this Country.... if we ever did....it is the Govt running us.

How about a study on the human costs of Mexicans, and other illegal Nationalities in our Land. Huh??? And dollar cost, pet cost, Horse cost, kids cost, education...there is no end to that list.

www.humancostofimmigration.org
Different name

United States

#4 Dec 5, 2011
Rebel wrote:
Years? They don't belong here. Period.
Get the unemployed Americans to work. We survived without millions of illegals in the past and we'll survive without them again. End of story.
Recent studies released by the Georgia Restaurant Association and the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association paint a dark picture for the impact of HB 87.
According to Karen Bremer, the Executive Director for the Georgia Restaurant Association, workers who held jobs as dishwashers, line cooks, or janitors in restaurants are fleeing the state in droves costing restaurant owners thousands of dollars in lost sales.
"When asked about current labor availability, three quarters of the restaurants surveyed are experiencing a labor shortage," said Bremer. "Workers are scared to come to Georgia."
Bremer said despite Georgia's 10 percent unemployment rate owners report Georgians are not stepping up to fill the positions.
It is a similar situation, according to Charles Hall, with the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association.
"Food in America is a national security issue," Hall said. "If we can't solve the immigration problem in the U.S. we may be dependant on food just like we are on foreign oil."
According to their study, the effects on Georgia's agricultural economy have been devastating.
Hall said $300 million is the estimated loss in harvested crops statewide,$1 billion dollars in total economic impact on Georgia's economy and untold millions in the losses to the economies of small towns and farmers dependent on immigrant labor.
Hall said the labor shortage is so prolific, many farmers, are re-thinking how they will farm next year.
Different name

United States

#5 Dec 5, 2011
Rebel wrote:
Years? They don't belong here. Period.
Get the unemployed Americans to work. We survived without millions of illegals in the past and we'll survive without them again. End of story.
If Americans did their own work all along, then why were Afro American slaves imported to work, why did they need the Chinese to build the railroads, why were Mexicans allowed to come here in the 30's 40's to work. Shall I go on? 
In California, the illegal farmworker has been here for generations. It is hard, back breaking work and I have seen the fields and only Latinos are working them, its always been Latinos. Americans don't want the work is talking about working the fields and that is true. As for other industries throughout this countrys history, it alway had a cheap immigrant work force to pull from. Chinese workers who worked on the railroads, African Americans during the slavery period, New York had its own reserve-In fact a racial word for Italians was WOP, which meant "with out papers" so that was a group who worked for cheap. Times are tough but it is always some other group that is the scapegoat for what is wrong in the country.
Once again, the illegal immigrant is being scapegoat for Americas frustration.
Different name

United States

#6 Dec 5, 2011
Nijoni wrote:
...
How about a study on the human costs of Mexicans, and other illegal Nationalities in our Land. Huh??? And dollar cost, pet cost, Horse cost, kids cost, education...there is no end to that list.
www.humancostofimmigration.org
 Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly and CNN host Lou Dobbs made the point that illegal immigrants "dodge taxes," with O'Reilly expressing his belief that the idea that they pay taxes is "crap." The effect of this constant bombardment of false information has confused a good portion of the public. According to an ABC News/Washington Post poll, a third of all Americans stating that the biggest worry about illegal immigrants [is] that they “used more public services than they pay for in taxes.” Anti-immigrant proponents, such a Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Dobbs and the “patriot” Mark Levin have done an excellent job confusing the public; making them believe that illegal immigration has a negative economic impact. When in fact, the truth, which is the exact opposite and all of them know it; yet they continue to obfuscate the truth and misdirect the public. Consider this:
According  to the Congressional Budget Office and the Social Security Administration, undocumented immigrants pay many different types of taxes, including sales, property, and social security taxes individual income, the most ignorant anti-immigrant radio or TV personality knows that the  1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including housing, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization assistance and even food stamps, The only services that illegal immigrants  can still get is K-12 education and emergency medical care.
The influx in payment of taxes began in earnest in 1996, when the IRS created nine-digit individual taxpayer identification numbers (ITINs), It was designed to enable the IRS to track the tax returns of those who are ineligible for a Social Security number. It is believed that most taxpayers who use ITINs are illegal immigrants although a small portion of legal residents also has them.the Social Security Administration estimates that about seventy five percent (75%) of illegal workers contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare by paying taxes.
In 2005 the agency estimates that on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, about $9 billion in taxes was paid.
This amount would include illegal immigrants using fake names and Social Security numbers. Although the influence on Social Security is considerable because most of the money received is never claimed by the illegal immigrant who pays into the system. Instead of the money returning to the rightful owner, it is used to cover the deficit in retirement checks payable to legal workers.
They concluded that with high immigration the SSA's combined trust fund would be exhausted in 2043 and if the immigration numbers were half the amount, the fund would run out four years earlier.
Congressional hearing in 2006 then IRS Commission Mark Everson told Congress "many illegal aliens, utilizing ITINs, have been reporting tax liability to the tune of almost $50 billion from 1996 to 2003."
Even with hard numbers and facts verified by our own government anti-immigrant proponents continue to mislead the public.
Dr. William F. Ford a professor at Tennessee State University and  an expert on immigration and taxes assesses that (illegal immigrants contribute $428 billion dollars to the nation’s $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006.)“If anything we need more immigrants coming into the country, not less, especially with the baby boomers retiring,” said Ford in an Associated Press article
http://news.jornal.us/article-4671.Illegal-Im...
Different name

United States

#7 Dec 5, 2011
Alabama and two other states, Michigan and Minnesota, each saw a half-percent drop in their unemployment rates in October, the largest in the nation. Neither Michigan nor Minnesota have draconian immigration laws in place.

State Sen. Bryan Taylor, R-Prattville, said three of the five states with the steepest unemployment rate drops in October have passed tough immigration laws. "It's hard to draw a causal relationship conclusively, but it's certainly plausible," he said.

It is true that South Carolina and Utah, which did pass overreaching immigration laws, also had significant drops in unemployment, but their laws aren't nearly as tough as Alabama's.

But wait. Georgia and Arizona didn't make the top 12 states with significant drops in unemployment rates, and they have laws like South Carolina and Utah. Vermont did make the top 12. So did Pennsylvania. And Idaho. And Maryland. And none of those has Alabama-style immigration laws.

Something else must be going on, and the analysts say, yes, indeed, there is:

People are dropping off unemployment rolls because they've become discouraged by not being able to find a job and have stopped looking, according to an analysis by Arise Citizens' Policy Project. Alabama's labor force shrank by more than 6,000 workers in October, and the labor force has been shrinking since June. Economists say a shrinking labor force makes it easier for a state to post an unemployment rate decline, even if job growth is small.

While Alabama created fewer than 10,000 jobs in October, many of those were seasonal jobs and about half were state and local government jobs. Government jobs can't be held by undocumented workers, so those were not jobs being filled by Alabamians because undocumented workers were leaving the state.

The job sectors that do use immigrant workers -- restaurants, hotels, construction and manufacturing -- lost jobs in October. If undocumented workers are vacating those jobs, Alabama workers aren't rushing to fill them. Indeed, this week, the Associated General Contractors, based in Arlington, Va., said Alabama having the second-highest number of construction jobs lost from September to October -- 3.2 percent or 2,700 jobs -- is related to construction crews leaving the state in the wake of the immigration law.
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#8 Dec 5, 2011
I don’t care if a few criminals lose money because they have built their businesses on the assumption that they can break the law without suffering the consequences. Honest business will fill the void left by the criminals just as Americans and immigrants have filled the jobs vacated by illegal aliens. A few criminal employers are trying to make it sound like there will be major shortages and huge price increases because they cannot find enough slave wage workers, yet not one of them has actually attempted to hire legal workers. Try searching for farm jobs in Alabama. Guess what, there are no field labor jobs being advertised. Seems to me that if you need employees you would at least advertise and try to recruit them rather than spending time complaining that they are not standing in line at your business waiting to fill jobs that require hard work and pay minimum wage when you have not even advertised the fact that jobs are available and where they can be found.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#9 Dec 5, 2011
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
I don’t care if a few criminals lose money because they have built their businesses on the assumption that they can break the law without suffering the consequences. Honest business will fill the void left by the criminals just as Americans and immigrants have filled the jobs vacated by illegal aliens. A few criminal employers are trying to make it sound like there will be major shortages and huge price increases because they cannot find enough slave wage workers, yet not one of them has actually attempted to hire legal workers. Try searching for farm jobs in Alabama. Guess what, there are no field labor jobs being advertised. Seems to me that if you need employees you would at least advertise and try to recruit them rather than spending time complaining that they are not standing in line at your business waiting to fill jobs that require hard work and pay minimum wage when you have not even advertised the fact that jobs are available and where they can be found.
same thing comes up every single season in my area of ca,huge ag area,yet like you posted never adds for help not even in the newspapers that print about the so called labor shortages. the unemployment office as most town can be checked for jobs on line as well,right again never any farmers asking for help nor any other place said to be illegal aliens are the only ones who will do it.

it this age of computers and the internet all anyone has to do to check facts is do a search of these places and see if there is adds or not. seems simple when the cry of no help is out there those who control immigration and other thing do not even look at government ui offices to check, they just take the wods of those saying it.

“Assimilate & Speak English!”

Since: Jan 07

Lansing, IL - now: Pomp Bch FL

#10 Dec 5, 2011
Different name wrote:
<quoted text>If Americans did their own work all along, then why were Afro American slaves imported to work, why did they need the Chinese to build the railroads, why were Mexicans allowed to come here in the 30's 40's to work. Shall I go on? 
In California, the illegal farmworker has been here for generations. It is hard, back breaking work and I have seen the fields and only Latinos are working them, its always been Latinos. Americans don't want the work is talking about working the fields and that is true. As for other industries throughout this countrys history, it alway had a cheap immigrant work force to pull from. Chinese workers who worked on the railroads, African Americans during the slavery period, New York had its own reserve-In fact a racial word for Italians was WOP, which meant "with out papers" so that was a group who worked for cheap. Times are tough but it is always some other group that is the scapegoat for what is wrong in the country.
Once again, the illegal immigrant is being scapegoat for Americas frustration.
It's a fact that years ago a crying need for labor encouraged immigration from Europe, Asia and points south. Does this mean that we have inherited this as natural law and the US is a no-charge Walmart for the weak and oppressed? NOPE!

Is it the duty of the US to feed, clothe, educate and provide medical care for the world's great unwashed? Or does charity begin at home...

My heart goes out a tiny little bit to Hispanics who weaseled their way into US cities, trashed them and now demand their "rights" as semi-lawful citizens. <sarcasm>

Miami is a picture post-card of a third-world conversion from America to South America. You can't argue with Hispanic financial success, though it was liberally sponsored by the Fed, but then again, are we supposed to respect thieves for how much they have stolen just because they drive expensive cars and move into pricey homes? Not on your life!

And, they are moving north into Broward County (Fort Lauderdale), and trashing that.

I find it disgusting.

“Assimilate & Speak English!”

Since: Jan 07

Lansing, IL - now: Pomp Bch FL

#11 Dec 5, 2011
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
I don’t care if a few criminals lose money because they have built their businesses on the assumption that they can break the law without suffering the consequences. Honest business will fill the void left by the criminals just as Americans and immigrants have filled the jobs vacated by illegal aliens. A few criminal employers are trying to make it sound like there will be major shortages and huge price increases because they cannot find enough slave wage workers, yet not one of them has actually attempted to hire legal workers. Try searching for farm jobs in Alabama. Guess what, there are no field labor jobs being advertised. Seems to me that if you need employees you would at least advertise and try to recruit them rather than spending time complaining that they are not standing in line at your business waiting to fill jobs that require hard work and pay minimum wage when you have not even advertised the fact that jobs are available and where they can be found.
Exactly! If a business cannot survive without illegal labor, it shouldn't be in business. These businesses don't WANT legal labor, because then they have to provide "safe" working conditions, as well as take out taxes, etc. And they want CHEAP labor, which they can get by paying illegals cash under the table -- something they can't do with Americans, for the most part. And, they have to pay a livable wage to Americans...so they don't want them...and then use the excuse that Americans *won't* do the work. Yeah, right.

“Assimilate & Speak English!”

Since: Jan 07

Lansing, IL - now: Pomp Bch FL

#12 Dec 5, 2011
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2009,0930-camarot...

Jobs Americans Won’t Do? A Detailed Look At Immigrant Employment By Occupation

This analysis tests the often-made argument that immigrants only do jobs Americans don’t want. If the argument is correct, there should be occupations comprised entirely or almost entirely of immigrants. But Census Bureau data collected from 2005 to 2007, which allow for very detailed analysis, show that even before the recession there were only a tiny number of majority-immigrant occupations.
Among the findings:

* Of the 465 civilian occupations, only four are majority immigrant. These four occupations account for less than 1 percent of the total U.S. workforce. Moreover, native-born Americans comprise 47 percent of workers in these occupations.

* Many jobs often thought to be overwhelmingly immigrant are in fact majority native-born:
o Maids and housekeepers: 55 percent native-born
o Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 58 percent native-born
o Butchers and meat processors: 63 percent native-born
o Grounds maintenance workers: 65 percent native-born
o Construction laborers: 65 percent native-born
o Porters, bellhops, and concierges: 71 percent native-born
o Janitors: 75 percent native-born

* There are 93 occupations in which 20 percent or more of workers are immigrants. These high-immigrant occupations are primarily, but not exclusively, lower-wage jobs that require relatively little formal education.

* There are 23.6 million natives in these high-immigrant occupations (20 percent or more immigrant). These occupations include 19 percent of all native workers.

* Most natives do not face significant job competition from immigrants; however, those who do tend to be less-educated and poorer than those who face relatively little competition from immigrants.

* In high-immigrant occupations, 57 percent of natives have no more than a high school education. In occupations that are less than 20 percent immigrant, 35 percent of natives have no more than a high school education. And in occupations that are less than 10 percent immigrant, only 26 percent of natives have no more than a high school education.

* In high-immigrant occupations the average wages and salary for natives is one-fourth lower than in occupations that are less than 20 percent immigrant.

* Some may believe that natives in high-immigrant occupations are older and that few young natives are willing to do that kind of work. But 33 percent of natives in these occupations are age 30 or younger. In occupations that are less than 20 percent immigrant, 28 percent of natives are 30 or younger.

* It is worth remembering that not all high-immigrant occupations are lower-skilled and lower-wage. For example, 44 percent of medical scientists are immigrants, as are 34 percent of software engineers, 27 percent of physicians, and 25 percent of chemists.

* It is also worth noting that a number of politically important groups tend to face very little job competition from immigrants. For example, just 10 percent of reporters are immigrants, as are only 6 percent of lawyers and judges and 3 percent of farmers and ranchers.

“Assimilate & Speak English!”

Since: Jan 07

Lansing, IL - now: Pomp Bch FL

#13 Dec 5, 2011
According to Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman, "low-skilled immigrants do not earn enough money to cover the cost of government benefits they receive." In essence, businesses are making-out like bandits while U.S. taxpayers--whom they won't hire--pay for the government entitlements drawn by immigrants--legal and illegal.

Moreover, more than 25% of illegal immigrants lack the equivalent of a high school education, compared to 9% of American citizens. The Heritage Foundation found that low-skilled immigrants use far more dollars worth of government services than they pay in taxes. Further, the Foundation determined that the average low-skilled immigrant household costs the American taxpayer $19,588 per year.

“Assimilate & Speak English!”

Since: Jan 07

Lansing, IL - now: Pomp Bch FL

#14 Dec 5, 2011
http://tammybruce.com/2006/12/americans_line_...

The line of applicants hoping to fill jobs vacated by undocumented workers taken away by immigration agents at the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant earlier this week was out the door Thursday. Among them was Derrick Stegall, who carefully filled out paperwork he hoped would get him an interview and eventually land him a job as a slaughterer...

Greg Bonifacio heard about the job openings on television and brought his passport, his Colorado driver's license, his Social Security card and even a color photograph of himself as a young Naval officer to prove his military service.

"I don't want to hassle with any identification problems because of my last name," said Bonifacio, a 59- year-old Thornton resident of Filipino heritage...Bonifacio was hoping to get a job in production or fabrication. So was Nathan Korgan, a former construction worker whose company closed and moved to California.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200904114344/bor...

Hundreds of American workers immediately applied to fill the 28 jobs left vacant by the arrest of illegal alien workers at the Yamato Engine Specialists Company in the town about 20 miles from the Canadian border.

Nationwide, an estimated 7.7 million U.S. jobs are now held by illegal aliens. In case after case in which enforcement actions have removed illegal workers, legal workers have almost immediately lined up to fill the vacancies. American DO want these jobs. These are jobs that can and should be available to U.S. workers at a time of rising unemployment, without spending $800 billion.

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