Prize-winning illegal immigrant draws...

Prize-winning illegal immigrant draws crowd at Worcester State

There are 132 comments on the Worcester Telegram & Gazette story from Mar 16, 2012, titled Prize-winning illegal immigrant draws crowd at Worcester State. In it, Worcester Telegram & Gazette reports that:

Jose Antonio Vargas, who disclosed in a New York Times magazine article his status as an undocumented immigrant, spoke at Worcester State University today.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Worcester Telegram & Gazette.

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Since: Mar 08

Torrington, CT

#126 Mar 30, 2012
Born into sin, are they? Illegal by virtue of the country they are in. Having broken no laws at all, by where they stand they are illegal. That is your answer.

I see. There are no laws to that effect, and no one but you says so, but that is your opinion.

I am glad your opinion doesn't matter any more than my opinion. For that we are both lucky.
Independent patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
The children of bank robbers don't get to keep the money their parents stole, even if they have become accustomed to a high standard of living. Illegal aliens steal presence in the USA. Their children shouldn't be allowed to keep what their parents stole, either. We don't cut lawbreakers slack and let them continue to commit crimes just because they have children, and we don't cut the children of criminals slack just because they like what the parents stole.
Those children have the bad luck of being born to criminals - we take care of those children and foster them out, if need be. We don't want them begging or prostituting themselves in the street because we are a decent, compassionate society. But we don't owe them a living, either, or an education beyond k-12. Same goes for the children of illegal aliens - we don't owe them a living, nor do we owe them a path to citizenship. They are legally citizens of a foreign country. Their parents stole them a place here - they didn't come by it honestly.
The parents should take their US born children back to their home country to raise them, where they would have been raised had those parents not chosen to commit their crime of illegal entry. If we still have 'birthright' citizenship for children of foreigners by the time those children become of age, then those children can apply to be repatriated at the proper time. Their illegal children should all be returned to their countries of origin with their parents.
There is nothing wrong with our immigration system. What's wrong are people who spit on our laws and come here illegally just because they want to.

“It matters but not very much”

Since: Oct 07

Houston, TX

#127 Mar 30, 2012
compx2 wrote:
Born into sin, are they? Illegal by virtue of the country they are in. Having broken no laws at all, by where they stand they are illegal. That is your answer.
I see. There are no laws to that effect, and no one but you says so, but that is your opinion.
I am glad your opinion doesn't matter any more than my opinion. For that we are both lucky.
<quoted text>
Yes, it's true. Children brought over our border illegally are illegal aliens. What, just beause they're children you think that changes their status? They are the children of foreign nationals sneaked into the USA illegally. You don't understand much, do you? No matter. Logic and law will prevail, nevertheless.

Only you appear to be lucky for now, since you apparently have a vested interest in keeping illegal aliens in the USA.

The rest of us, citizens especially, are quite unlucky, as you and the rest of the 'open America to everyone possible, the poorer and less educated the better' crowd want to devalue US citizenship to a worthless level. Bet you don't believe in borders, either, eh? Or national sovereignty. Or our form of government. Or a lawful society.

Since: Mar 08

Torrington, CT

#128 Mar 30, 2012
I didn't say they changed their immigration status. They are "unexamined" unless they overstayed their visas. In any case they are "deportable" having broken no laws, solo by virtue of the ground they are standing upon.

I have no interest in keeping anything anyway. The shear numbers of people makes the situation impossible. It will not get more or less impossible, it will just remain impossible until Congress acts. Not much chance of that, however.
Independent patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it's true. Children brought over our border illegally are illegal aliens. What, just beause they're children you think that changes their status? They are the children of foreign nationals sneaked into the USA illegally. You don't understand much, do you? No matter. Logic and law will prevail, nevertheless.
Only you appear to be lucky for now, since you apparently have a vested interest in keeping illegal aliens in the USA.
The rest of us, citizens especially, are quite unlucky, as you and the rest of the 'open America to everyone possible, the poorer and less educated the better' crowd want to devalue US citizenship to a worthless level. Bet you don't believe in borders, either, eh? Or national sovereignty. Or our form of government. Or a lawful society.

Since: Mar 08

Torrington, CT

#129 Mar 31, 2012
The "illegal" part still bothers me IP. You say "children" are "illegal" admitting they broke no laws. That is, in my mind, strange. Like saying a rock or a horse is illegal. In my mind, only someone who broke a law can be illegal.

I can have an illegal rock or horse, or even an illegal child if that child did something illegal. But other than that I don't see it. Perhaps you can help me.

Certainly the child is "deportable" according to existing law, but not "illegal".

Many on this forum are attempting to subvert the 14th Amendment to say that those born of illegal aliens in this country are "illegal" children, but that won't happen either. It could lead to illegal sex and forced sterilization to keep from breaking a law, which is a funny situation. I don't think we will be forcing anyone to wear armbands or tatoos anymore, do you?

Thanks for answering my questions.
Independent patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it's true. Children brought over our border illegally are illegal aliens. What, just beause they're children you think that changes their status? They are the children of foreign nationals sneaked into the USA illegally. You don't understand much, do you? No matter. Logic and law will prevail, nevertheless.
Only you appear to be lucky for now, since you apparently have a vested interest in keeping illegal aliens in the USA.
The rest of us, citizens especially, are quite unlucky, as you and the rest of the 'open America to everyone possible, the poorer and less educated the better' crowd want to devalue US citizenship to a worthless level. Bet you don't believe in borders, either, eh? Or national sovereignty. Or our form of government. Or a lawful society.
Really

Saint Louis, MO

#130 Mar 31, 2012
The only crowd should be at the detention center when he's loaded up for his flight home!

“It matters but not very much”

Since: Oct 07

Houston, TX

#131 Mar 31, 2012
compx2 wrote:
The "illegal" part still bothers me IP. You say "children" are "illegal" admitting they broke no laws. That is, in my mind, strange. Like saying a rock or a horse is illegal. In my mind, only someone who broke a law can be illegal.
I can have an illegal rock or horse, or even an illegal child if that child did something illegal. But other than that I don't see it. Perhaps you can help me.
Certainly the child is "deportable" according to existing law, but not "illegal".
Many on this forum are attempting to subvert the 14th Amendment to say that those born of illegal aliens in this country are "illegal" children, but that won't happen either. It could lead to illegal sex and forced sterilization to keep from breaking a law, which is a funny situation. I don't think we will be forcing anyone to wear armbands or tatoos anymore, do you?
Thanks for answering my questions.
<quoted text>
Look up international law concerning foreign national children. It will tell you that foreign children are citizens of their original countries, and that host countries MUST make every effort possible to repatriate any parentless child found abandoned or orphaned or brought on their territory. No country can take original citizenship away from a child under international law.

The biggest problem appears to be abducted children smuggled into the USA to be prostituted or enslaved. When found, these children are cared for and protected until they can be identified and any foreign relatives can be located.

I'm sorry that the term,'illegal' bothers you so much, but it is the opposite of 'here legally.' Those children are here illegally, brought in by their illegal alien parents, which makes them illegal aliens. ANY foreign national here is subject to deportation if they are not in compliance with US law. When foreign born children of illegal aliens come of age, they are emancipated persons and subject to deportation.

Abandoned underage children of illegal aliens are, indeed, a problem because foreign relatives must be found or they need to be given to child protecive agencies in their countries of origin. But it must be proven that the child belongs in a foreign country. Without identity and birth records, those children are in nationality limbo. It cannot be assumed that they are US citizens by international law. Thankfully, those cases aren't as frequent or as difficult to solve as with abducted foreign children.

There has always been 'illegal sex.' It's called prostitution. Looking for prostitutes and illegal sex can put you in jail if you're caught. Not so long ago, there was court mandated sterilization under now repealed US eugenics laws. China does that today.

Since: Mar 08

Torrington, CT

#132 Mar 31, 2012
What are you talking about? Repatriate children who have been through our school systems, and graduated college? Repatriate them when most of their family is here?

International law? Argentina does not have any immigration. Anyone can go there to live. Most countries recognize the fact that people cross their borders and deal with them as they deal with the rest of their problems. The US is the only country that has an immigration problem of up to 10% of the total population. Why? Because our laws don't make any sense.

You don't repatriate people who are citizens to another country. And if the family is here, you don't repatriate children to a different country. The point is, what we do doesn't make any sense. These children have not broken any law, but they are "deportable". If you have ever had a speeding ticket, by the same token you are punishable by a fine AND imprisonment. That doesn't mean you WILL go to prison, just like being "deportable" does not mean you will be deported.

Are we on the same page yet? Do you understand why "deportable" does not mean "illegal"?
Independent patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
Look up international law concerning foreign national children. It will tell you that foreign children are citizens of their original countries, and that host countries MUST make every effort possible to repatriate any parentless child found abandoned or orphaned or brought on their territory. No country can take original citizenship away from a child under international law.
The biggest problem appears to be abducted children smuggled into the USA to be prostituted or enslaved. When found, these children are cared for and protected until they can be identified and any foreign relatives can be located.
I'm sorry that the term,'illegal' bothers you so much, but it is the opposite of 'here legally.' Those children are here illegally, brought in by their illegal alien parents, which makes them illegal aliens. ANY foreign national here is subject to deportation if they are not in compliance with US law. When foreign born children of illegal aliens come of age, they are emancipated persons and subject to deportation.
Abandoned underage children of illegal aliens are, indeed, a problem because foreign relatives must be found or they need to be given to child protecive agencies in their countries of origin. But it must be proven that the child belongs in a foreign country. Without identity and birth records, those children are in nationality limbo. It cannot be assumed that they are US citizens by international law. Thankfully, those cases aren't as frequent or as difficult to solve as with abducted foreign children.
There has always been 'illegal sex.' It's called prostitution. Looking for prostitutes and illegal sex can put you in jail if you're caught. Not so long ago, there was court mandated sterilization under now repealed US eugenics laws. China does that today.

“It matters but not very much”

Since: Oct 07

Houston, TX

#133 Mar 31, 2012
compx2 wrote:
What are you talking about? Repatriate children who have been through our school systems, and graduated college? Repatriate them when most of their family is here?
International law? Argentina does not have any immigration. Anyone can go there to live. Most countries recognize the fact that people cross their borders and deal with them as they deal with the rest of their problems. The US is the only country that has an immigration problem of up to 10% of the total population. Why? Because our laws don't make any sense.
You don't repatriate people who are citizens to another country. And if the family is here, you don't repatriate children to a different country. The point is, what we do doesn't make any sense. These children have not broken any law, but they are "deportable". If you have ever had a speeding ticket, by the same token you are punishable by a fine AND imprisonment. That doesn't mean you WILL go to prison, just like being "deportable" does not mean you will be deported.
Are we on the same page yet? Do you understand why "deportable" does not mean "illegal"?
<quoted text>
You simply do not understand/accept national sovereignty or the concept of citizenship. Look up the Hague Convention. Look up international law. There are still such things as sovereign countries. If you're personally going to rewrite the world's rules, you'd best inform the world, eh, so they can adjust to your whims.

Since: Mar 08

Torrington, CT

#134 Mar 31, 2012
Visas are given to people for many reasons. People overstay those visas for many reasons. People exceed speed limits, build without permits, spit on sidewalks, yell at neighbors. Of those five illegal acts want to guess which one has no legal remedy?

If you overstay a visa there is no penalty. but you are deportable. No one is looking to deport you, and only a federal agent can deport anyone. No one else can do it. Want to tell me how that makes sense?

If you cross the US border "unexamined" in the middle of the night while no one is looking a law is broken and there is a fine of $50 -$250 dollars. But there is no one to receive the money, no one asks for the money, and if you pay the fine you have not solved any legal issue at all. You are still "deportable" but, you guessed it, no one is looking for you, no one who can will try to deport you. That is policy. Want to tell me how that makes sense.

If you are brought to this country on the first day of your life, you go through schools here, college here, and now it is your 40th birthday you still have no path to legal residency. You may return to your "home" country and wait ten year then apply for a visa. Want to know the conditions one must meet for a residency visa? I didn't think so. And if your country is one that has lots of people entering the US illegally there are no residency visas given at all (only tourism and temporary work).

If we talk to your crowd there is no reform needed. Things need to stay just as they are. 20 million people need to be deported. Any reform is "amnesty" even if it isn't amnesty. It is amnesty if they pay a fine, if they join the military, if they say they are sorry. Even if we reform to make the laws make sense it is amnesty.

You prefer to just say "international law" as if there was any jurisdiction of anyone outside the US over US immigration policy. Sorry, but it is our Republicans in Congress who are the problem. They prefer problems. Nothing will ever get done, because if they do anything that is amnesty.

You think The Hague sets policy for anyone? Not at all. You are mistaken. I heard recently the US Congress had a hearing about whether or not the Iranian government was rational. That is our US Congress. Pots might as well hold a hearing about whether or not kettles are black.

With your support nothing will ever get done about the immigration problem in the US. Thank you for your support.
Independent patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
You simply do not understand/accept national sovereignty or the concept of citizenship. Look up the Hague Convention. Look up international law. There are still such things as sovereign countries. If you're personally going to rewrite the world's rules, you'd best inform the world, eh, so they can adjust to your whims.

“It matters but not very much”

Since: Oct 07

Houston, TX

#135 Apr 2, 2012
compx2 wrote:
Visas are given to people for many reasons. People overstay those visas for many reasons. People exceed speed limits, build without permits, spit on sidewalks, yell at neighbors. Of those five illegal acts want to guess which one has no legal remedy?
If you overstay a visa there is no penalty. but you are deportable. No one is looking to deport you, and only a federal agent can deport anyone. No one else can do it. Want to tell me how that makes sense?
If you cross the US border "unexamined" in the middle of the night while no one is looking a law is broken and there is a fine of $50 -$250 dollars. But there is no one to receive the money, no one asks for the money, and if you pay the fine you have not solved any legal issue at all. You are still "deportable" but, you guessed it, no one is looking for you, no one who can will try to deport you. That is policy. Want to tell me how that makes sense.
If you are brought to this country on the first day of your life, you go through schools here, college here, and now it is your 40th birthday you still have no path to legal residency. You may return to your "home" country and wait ten year then apply for a visa. Want to know the conditions one must meet for a residency visa? I didn't think so. And if your country is one that has lots of people entering the US illegally there are no residency visas given at all (only tourism and temporary work).
If we talk to your crowd there is no reform needed. Things need to stay just as they are. 20 million people need to be deported. Any reform is "amnesty" even if it isn't amnesty. It is amnesty if they pay a fine, if they join the military, if they say they are sorry. Even if we reform to make the laws make sense it is amnesty.
You prefer to just say "international law" as if there was any jurisdiction of anyone outside the US over US immigration policy. Sorry, but it is our Republicans in Congress who are the problem. They prefer problems. Nothing will ever get done, because if they do anything that is amnesty.
You think The Hague sets policy for anyone? Not at all. You are mistaken. I heard recently the US Congress had a hearing about whether or not the Iranian government was rational. That is our US Congress. Pots might as well hold a hearing about whether or not kettles are black.
With your support nothing will ever get done about the immigration problem in the US. Thank you for your support.
<quoted text>
Your main error in thinking is assuming foreign nationals should have an easier time entering the USA just because they want to. Foreign nationals don't get to decide they can come here for any reason.

The USA doesn't have to permit ANY foreign national into our territory for any reason whatsoever, not to live, not to work, not to visit, not to take a leak. THAT is national sovereignty. This is world wide. Get a clue.

Since: Mar 08

Torrington, CT

#136 Apr 2, 2012
You say they "don't get to decide". Hah. As many as 8% of the entire population of the US unilaterally decided they could, and you can't do anything about it. Neither can I. Ind official US immigration policy is to deliberately not do anything about it.

You assume I am "assuming [they] should have an easier time...". No, I am clearly saying what we have is impossible to deal with. It will not be more or less impossible in the coming years, it will just remain impossible as it is now.

The system is broken. I am fine with a broken system, and so, apparently, are you. But stop saying that ANYTHING that tries to fix the system is "amnesty" or somehow just wrong.

Proposals to fix a broken system are not automatically wrong even if the broken system is immigration.

Our system is broken, but it is fine by me if you like it the way it is, and fine by me if you don't like it. We aren't likely to see any change come out of this Congress anyway. In an election year no one wants to talk sense about fixing problems anyway. This is a year for politicians to make promises they will break.

To use your phraseology your main error in thinking is that the US taxpayers have the will and the resources to pay to rid ourselves of the equivalent population of five or six or our less populated states. We won't, and fixing the problem is not necessarily "amnesty".
Independent patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
Your main error in thinking is assuming foreign nationals should have an easier time entering the USA just because they want to. Foreign nationals don't get to decide they can come here for any reason.
The USA doesn't have to permit ANY foreign national into our territory for any reason whatsoever, not to live, not to work, not to visit, not to take a leak. THAT is national sovereignty. This is world wide. Get a clue.
enough is enough

United States

#137 Dec 29, 2012
Illegal means illegal PERIOD. they shouldn't have any rights. I'd get mugged and killed if I walked into their Hood!

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