China Says Tire Spat Shouldn't Hurt US Ties

A worker plays with a screw nut next to a tire store in Beijing, China, Sunday, Sept.

[North America]

Comment? let them have all used up tires from Cars

http://www.topix.net/ca/ontario/2009/09/24-ho...

[Jones]

The liberal communist Obama rushed to help his union parasite troops and their organized labor mafia leaders after those 5000 union members lost their jobs during 2009. However, Obama failed to do anything to help the private sector where more than 4 million non-union employees of the private sector lost their jobs under Obama-Union-Acorn and the forty czars’ regime while the African Muslim born dictator could not care less about the diminishing of US corporations and small businesses that are private sector.
However, China will come back to bite the bankrupted regime of Obama that spend money like drunken sailor since China can affect the Obama’s regime economy and Obama’s regime banks as the major lender to US government that is running ‘broke’.
Eventually Obama will have to back off his decision to put 35% tariff on China tires since they are partially owned by US companies and US tire companies will end losing more money than before.
The conclusion will bring Obama to justify another takeover of the US Tire companies and sending them billions of dollars of our hard earned tax money to feed his Labor unions hordes like he continue doing for GM and Chrysler to feed their union parasites of UAW that became integral part of the Democratic Party by Obama.

[Monk]

Jones wrote:

The liberal communist Obama rushed to help his union parasite troops and their organized labor mafia leaders after those 5000 union members lost their jobs during 2009.
Eventually Obama will have to back off his decision to put 35% tariff on China tires since they are partially owned by US companies and US tire companies will end losing more money than before.

So Jones, you support Multi-National Corporations like
Toyo Tire, a Japanese company with offices in Georgia,
over the rights of US workers to earn a living. Toyo Tire
makes tires in China using cheap labor. That puts US workers in the unemployment line. It benefits this Japanese
MNC and exploits China's resources and workers.
President Obama stands with US workers but you hate the
President so much, you always support the other side.
Very disturbing, Jones.

US tire companies that produce tires overseas will lose money. US tire companies which produce tires in the US
will hire workers, pay taxes and contribute to the US economy. Why not support the US for a change, Jones?

[Zsari]

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
US tire companies that produce tires overseas will lose money. US tire companies which produce tires in the US will hire workers, pay taxes and contribute to the US economy.

The only way for that to happen is if the US sanction the rest of the world. Isolationism & protestionism at best, deteroiation and collapse of a hermit empire to be at worst.

[Jelki]

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
So Jones, you support Multi-National Corporations like
Toyo Tire, a Japanese company with offices in Georgia,
over the rights of US workers to earn a living. Toyo Tire
makes tires in China using cheap labor. That puts US workers in the unemployment line. It benefits this Japanese
MNC and exploits China's resources and workers.
President Obama stands with US workers but you hate the
President so much, you always support the other side.
Very disturbing, Jones.
US tire companies that produce tires overseas will lose money. US tire companies which produce tires in the US
will hire workers, pay taxes and contribute to the US economy. Why not support the US for a change, Jones?

Monk, you are seriously a moron. Even the ITC can't agree on whether this will actually save US jobs. If the tires don't come from China, they will come from the next cheapest country. The US tire companies that produce in China will not magically go back to the USA. How the hell do you form the idea in your delusional mind that US tire companies that produce "overseas" will lose money? No, only ones that produce in China will! They will move their production to another cheap country (NOT THE GOD DAMN USA). This only hurts American tire importers (and their white collar workers) because it makes them lose money in the transition to another country. This is pure stupidity and even the union hasn't outlined how this move will save US jobs. If you want to do that, the US has to put high tariffs on EVERY country- and if you guys do that, please let me how that goes.

[Jelki]

Oh yeah, Ford and GM have also tried to stop this move by Obama because they use Chinese-made tires too. Guess what, they're AMERICAN MNCs. You seem to focus on Toyo but tons of AMERICAN tire companies like Cooper have spoken out against this move that will hurt them in an already battered industry due to the recession.

[Monk]

Zsari wrote:

<quoted text>
The only way for that to happen is if the US sanction the rest of the world. Isolationism & protestionism at best, deteroiation and collapse of a hermit empire to be at worst.

You exaggerate. The issue is a higher tariff on Chinese tires as agreed to in 2000 legislation.
China agreed to anti-dumping provisions as part of the 2000 Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China. Do you deny that?

Why shouldn't President Obama enforce section 421 provisions?

"China’s agreement to the anti-surge provision was a key argument in persuading Congress to permanently normalize trade relations. Section 421, contended Montana Sen. Max Baucus, a leading free-trader,“ensures that if shifts in trade patterns, following China’s entry into the world trading system, cause or threaten dislocations to American workers, businesses and farmers, they will be able to obtain relief quickly.”

Are trade agreements with China worthless? Is China's word no good, reneging on agreed to principles?

[Lwa]

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
You exaggerate. The issue is a higher tariff on Chinese tires as agreed to in 2000 legislation.
China agreed to anti-dumping provisions as part of the 2000 Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China. Do you deny that?
Why shouldn't President Obama enforce section 421 provisions?
"China’s agreement to the anti-surge provision was a key argument in persuading Congress to permanently normalize trade relations. Section 421, contended Montana Sen. Max Baucus, a leading free-trader,“ensures that if shifts in trade patterns, following China’s entry into the world trading system, cause or threaten dislocations to American workers, businesses and farmers, they will be able to obtain relief quickly.”
Are trade agreements with China worthless? Is China's word no good, reneging on agreed to principles?

You stupid ass! Are you even reading what other people are writing? The ITC can't even agree on the ruling with dissenting members saying that such actions will NOT SAVE AMERICAN JOBS. Think LOGICALLY. In the long run, will this cause factories to move to the USA? NO, it will cause factories to move to other cheaper countries besides China. This was a pandering move to stupid unions who admittedly also can't even explain HOW this would help save jobs. This will raise consumer prices, hurt American tire importers and companies that used Chinese production, which can indirectly cause the loss of white collar jobs. Gee, that sounds fricking fantastic doesn't it? Honestly, you keep writing BULLSHIT without even reading what everyone else is writing. YOU are the reason why people think Americans are stupid. God damn it.

[Fred Bastiat]

Jelki wrote:

Oh yeah, Ford and GM have also tried to stop this move by Obama because they use Chinese-made tires too. Guess what, they're AMERICAN MNCs. You seem to focus on Toyo but tons of AMERICAN tire companies like Cooper have spoken out against this move that will hurt them in an already battered industry due to the recession.

Be real, Obama probably wants GM & Chrysler to be hurt by the higher cost of tires. The longer they suffer, the longer he has an excuse to keep government ownership and control of them.

[Monk]

Lwa wrote:

<quoted text>
You stupid ass! Are you even reading what other people are writing? The ITC can't even agree on the ruling with dissenting members saying that such actions will NOT SAVE AMERICAN JOBS. Think LOGICALLY. In the long run, will this cause factories to move to the USA? NO, it will cause factories to move to other cheaper countries besides China. God damn it.

Eatshit you stupidasshole. You don't have afucking clue what's going on here. China is testing President Obama to see if he'll enforce section 421 of the Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China of 2000. Either you're dumber than a stump or think you can win an argument by talking tough- probably both.

Is China's word any good? They agreed to anti-dumping provisions of the PNTR with China in 2000. If you think China can just violate this agreement with impunity, you're
totally insane. Learn the law, learn the truth, get your head
out of yourass, dipshit.
BTW- troll, too much of a coward to man-up for who you really are? Chickenshit.

[Lwa]

Are you retarded? The ITC can't even fully agree on the matter and the domestic tire industry is fighting it along with Ford and GM. How the fuck is China testing Obama to see if he'll enforce 421? This was something brought up by the US steelworker union (full of dumb hicks like yourself) and has been hated by mostly everyone else involved, including China. It is Obama's right to use 421, but that doesn't mean he should MISUSE it. The ONLY reason he is enforcing it is to get support from unions because his approval rating is falling faster than your dick in the morning. When did I say that he doesn't have the right to use it? The problem here is that the ITC can't even agree on the matter and that the domestic tire industry is doing everything they can to fight it because they know it's going to hurt them (yay white collar job losses instead of blue collar!). How does it make sense for Obama is pass something so controversial like this considering the circumstances and debate over whether it will even benefit Americans?

[Lwa]

Also, please provide proof that Obama made his decision because he thought China was dumping tires. Do you even know what dumping means? He can use 421 because of "surges" in imports that cause market disruption for US manufacturers. It's a pretty flexible provision, but it doesn't mean China was dumping. At all.

"Presidents have used this provision selectively, and always with some political angle in mind. Considering that with this move Obama is wounding U.S. automakers by making tires more expensive, it's worth asking why he did it."

"If you're looking for Obama's main motivation in his decision to punish China's tire makers (and thus America's tire buyers), you'll find a good clue in the news release Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, sent out on Friday. Brown praised Obama for "courageously ... protect[ing] America's workers."

"The deeper you look, the more the tariffs look like an effort by Obama to win over the Rust Belt and the manufacturing sector. The most direct beneficiaries of the tire tariffs are the unions representing tire workers. Keeping out Chinese tires was a priority for the United Steel Workers, which represents tire workers. The union's political action committee in 2008 ponied up $57,000 in independent expenditures on Obama's behalf, gave $20,000 to Brown and his PAC, and an additional $1.4 million to Democratic House and Senate candidates."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Ti...

[smallville]

The market share of China-made-tyre in USA is 17% and limited to a certain sub-market. The real market share is less than 10%.

Do you know foreign brand tyre's market share in China? Already passed 70% and they want 80%.

[Monk]

Lwa wrote:

Also, please provide proof that Obama made his decision because he thought China was dumping tires. Do you even know what dumping means? He can use 421 because of "surges" in imports that cause market disruption for US manufacturers. l

Here's your proof-

washingtonpost.com By Steven Mufson and Peter Whoriskey Tuesday, September 15, 2009

"The Obama administration also said it was not worried. "We do not expect that it will have an impact on the broader relationship," said a senior administration official. He said that there had been a "robust effort" by the administration to negotiate with China for a settlement on tires before imposing import tariffs. He asserted that U.S. imports of Chinese tires, which more than tripled since 2004, clearly met the test for tariffs aimed at reducing "surges" in imports."

China willingly agreed to the provisions of the Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China of 2000. Now China
howls with outrage when President Obama enforces the agreement. That's disingenuous.

[Lwa]

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
Here's your proof-
washingtonpost.com By Steven Mufson and Peter Whoriskey Tuesday, September 15, 2009
"The Obama administration also said it was not worried. "We do not expect that it will have an impact on the broader relationship," said a senior administration official. He said that there had been a "robust effort" by the administration to negotiate with China for a settlement on tires before imposing import tariffs. He asserted that U.S. imports of Chinese tires, which more than tripled since 2004, clearly met the test for tariffs aimed at reducing "surges" in imports."
China willingly agreed to the provisions of the Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China of 2000. Now China
howls with outrage when President Obama enforces the agreement. That's disingenuous.

Where does it mention in your quote anything about dumping? It doesn't. Dumbass. SURGES IN IMPORTS DOES NOT EQUAL DUMPING. That's why the administration is careful not to say that. Dumping is illegal according to international trade law. Not so with "surges in imports", which can be caused by many things such as just simply being more competitive. Anyway, Chinese tires are only 17% of the American tire market. That's hardly what I would call a surge in imports. Obama could've made the same argument about electronics and toys, where the Chinese actually DO have a large chunk of, but he doesn't. Why? Because he's pandering, sneaky man that desperately needs labour support.

[Monk]

Lwa wrote:

<quoted text>
Anyway, Chinese tires are only 17% of the American tire market. That's hardly what I would call a surge in imports. Obama could've made the same argument about electronics and toys, where the Chinese actually DO have a large chunk of, but he doesn't. Why? Because he's pandering, sneaky man that desperately needs labour support.

Really dipshit? That's hardly what you would call a surge in imports? You are a nobody, a nothing. You represent no one except your own pathetic self.

President Obama is enforcing section 421 of the Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China of 2000.
He's doing it openly and holding China to its word. You wouldn't understand being held to your word. Your word is
irrelevant and worthless. You are a coward troll hiding your
usual Forum name. Laughable, pathetic.

[old china]

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
Really dipshit? That's hardly what you would call a surge in imports? You are a nobody, a nothing. You represent no one except your own pathetic self.
President Obama is enforcing section 421 of the Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China of 2000.
He's doing it openly and holding China to its word. You wouldn't understand being held to your word. Your word is
irrelevant and worthless. You are a coward troll hiding your
usual Forum name. Laughable, pathetic.

"Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) status is a legal designation in the United States for free trade with a foreign nation. In the U.S. the name was changed from Most Favored Nation (MFN) to PNTR in 1998.

In international trade, the expression “most-favored-nation,” usually abbreviated “MFN,” status (or treatment), is a status awarded by one nation to another in international trade. It means that the receiving nation will be granted all trade advantages — such as low tariffs — that any other nation also receives. In effect, a nation with MFN status will not be discriminated against and will not be treated worse than any other nation with MFN status. "

(Wiki)

So can we expect these tarrifs to apply to all nations and not just China or has Obama produced proof positive that the Chinese are selling below cost price?

[Monk]

old china wrote:

<quoted text>
"Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) status is a legal designation in the United States for free trade with a foreign nation. In the U.S. the name was changed from Most Favored Nation (MFN) to PNTR in 1998.
In international trade, the expression “most-favored-nation,” usually abbreviated “MFN,” status (or treatment), is a status awarded by one nation to another in international trade. It means that the receiving nation will be granted all trade advantages — such as low tariffs — that any other nation also receives. In effect, a nation with MFN status will not be discriminated against and will not be treated worse than any other nation with MFN status. "
(Wiki)
So can we expect these tarrifs to apply to all nations and not just China or has Obama produced proof positive that the Chinese are selling below cost price?

The 2000 enactment of Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China was specifically with China. China knew the provisions of PNTR including section 421.
"In the Trade Act (Section 421), added with Beijing’s consent during the negotiations, allowed the U.S. government to levy tariffs on surging Chinese imports that were eviscerating an American industry."

I don't know what President Obama knows and you don't know what China knows. These are highly technical trade
issues involving alot more than meets the eye. China and the US are major trade partners. The negotiators will work
out the details behind closed doors. This is just a blip on the radar, not the start of some horrendous trade war, IMO.

[Zsari]

Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
The 2000 enactment of Permanent Normalized Trade Relations with China was specifically with China. China knew the provisions of PNTR including section 421.
"In the Trade Act (Section 421), added with Beijing’s consent during the negotiations, allowed the U.S. government to levy tariffs on surging Chinese imports that were eviscerating an American industry."

You can recital section 421 a hundred times, and the fact remains no American industry has been eviscerated by the imported tires, and the only reason for the tariff is a political one under the pretense of 421.

[Monk]

Zsari wrote:

<quoted text>
the only reason for the tariff is a political one under the pretense of 421.

Better call a cab, your flight leaves for China soon.