xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19872 Aug 10, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Your questions contain false premises. The bill including a health insurance mandate WAS introduced by the Republicans and had 21 co-sponsors in the Senate:
"In November, 1993, Sen. John Chafee, R-R.I., introduced what was considered to be one of the main Republican health overhaul proposals: "A bill to provide comprehensive reform of the health care system of the United States."
Titled the "Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993," it had 21 co-sponsors, including two Democrats (Sens. Boren and Kerrey)."
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2010/...
I see you left out the most important part:

"The bill, which was not debated or voted upon, was an alternative to President Bill Clinton's plan. It bears similarity to the Democratic bill passed by the Senate Dec. 24, 2009,"

In other words, it was all lip service and reactionary to HillaryCare which ushered in the historic Congressional turnover from Democrat to Republican leadership. 21 co-sponsors? You do realize there are 100 Senators, don't you?

What I asked for was a "serious" attempt by Republicans for national healthcare, not a dog and pony show. The Republicans had no intention of taking over 1/6 of our economy.
woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#19873 Aug 10, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
and you are brain washed.
Explain exactly how for 30 years insurance I paid for myself, has gone up because of GOP Teabaggers?
Exchange? How about buy your insurance from a provider you choose and can pay for.
Some employers provide insurance to help retain employees, but employees share in the expense.
Being self employed, I pay 100% of my benefit package for family of 4, for 25 years. Now I am re-married on my working wife's medical plan. She pays $360 a month, and employer pays remainder. In the end, she pays it all because the employers consider it a cost of the employee.
The exchange is the Government takeover of healthcare, and corrupt politicians determining whom receives treatment.
Refusing your exchange is what exactly should be done. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay.
Healthcare is 25% of our entire economy. You want to assist the government in taking that over to continue the socialist movement in this country.
woo-boy.....you have a problem. The 2nd amendment. Many have died to keep this country free, and many willing to die defending it. You liberal loud mouths won't be willing to die for anything, because you are too busy making excuses.
Before America becomes full blown socialist, expect patriots to Declare Independence from the run away government, and revolt taking it back.
Our military swore to up hold the constitution. The constitution limits government. What % of active military do you think would follow what they swore to up hold?
Better yet.....what percentage of Officers do you expect to live up to their promise?
everyday is a ticking bomb for this administration. This administration has and is continuing to move America backwards.
Loud mouths like yourself will spin and pass the blame.
The Obama reign has caused America great damage, and is close to causing war amongst race, and society class. The war needs to be against this over reaching government that is bankrupting us on purpose.
Wow! your IQ test results came back. They're negative.
woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#19874 Aug 10, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
If our founding fathers could come back today, they would be outraged at what's taking place.
By design, states were to operate like miniature countries and only congregate for national matters. Healthcare coverage is not a national matter. Neither are retirement benefits, food, shelter, seat belt laws, midnight basketball courts, cell phones, government air conditioners or environmental policies.
These are all state issues and should only be addressed by the state. Our founders would be outraged at how state dependency on federal government allows them to bypass states rights. The very idea that the federal government threatens states by withholding road funding if you don't comply with their wishes gives the federal government unlimited power.
The biggest threats to our freedoms in this country are bureaucracies and liberal appointed judges. It is these entities that create or manipulate laws against our wishes. You can't elect them, vote them out or impeach them.
I think if the founders could come back and rewrite the Constitution, it would look nothing like it does today. They would look upon the land and see sloths nursing at the breast of the federal government at the expense of the responsible, and make sure the new Constitution would prohibit such abilities. Hell, half of the people in this country are living partially or entirely off of the federal government. This is not what our founders had in mind and in fact, had the opposite goal.
John Kennedy thought the success of this country depended not on what the country can do for the citizens, but what the citizens can do for their country. Barack Obama and his ilk believe the success of our country depends on what the country can do for the citizen, and not what the citizens can do for the country.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger, on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison. Annals of Congress, 1794
It's 2013 not 1794, they didn't have huge corporations, Wall Street and huge banks buying the government back then.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19875 Aug 10, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>It's 2013 not 1794, they didn't have huge corporations, Wall Street and huge banks buying the government back then.
The US Constitution was written in stone and only to be changed by the Amendment Process.

They didn't have Wall Street or huge corporations back then, but they didn't have environmental kooks, unions and many irresponsible people back then either. Wall Street and corporations don't change the fact that our US government is not a social club. It is not a loan industry. It is not supposed to be a safety net.

Nobody's tax money in Texas should be paying for my neighbors housing. Nobody in Utah should be paying for my kids lunch in our Ohio schools. Nobody in California should be paying for retirement of a Michigan resident.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen. And when we elect to have the federal government control all of these things, we surrender more of our liberty to that federal government.

Madison was correct back then, and he is correct today.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#19876 Aug 10, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you left out the most important part:
"The bill, which was not debated or voted upon, was an alternative to President Bill Clinton's plan. It bears similarity to the Democratic bill passed by the Senate Dec. 24, 2009,"
In other words, it was all lip service and reactionary to HillaryCare which ushered in the historic Congressional turnover from Democrat to Republican leadership. 21 co-sponsors? You do realize there are 100 Senators, don't you?
What I asked for was a "serious" attempt by Republicans for national healthcare, not a dog and pony show. The Republicans had no intention of taking over 1/6 of our economy.
I see, so when you said "Then why didn't it receive any support?" you really meant was "It wasn't supported by every Republican in the Senate." And a "serious" attempt is only one that succeeds and becomes law?

But I find it interesting what you are saying about the Republicans back in 1993 --- that when they were confronted with a serious Democratic healthcare proposal, they made up a response which was not really serious. So they were deceiving the public, and had no real interest in healthcare legislation? Was that Heritage Foundation plan on which it was based also just part of the scam?

More to the point, when you are confronted with hard evidence that you are wrong on a matter of historical fact do you ever just admit your error and move on? This all started with you denying that the healthcare mandate had Republican origins. I presented you with the Heritage Foundation document, and then you responded that nothing ever came of it. When presented with evidence of a Republican bill incorporating those ideas that had 19 Republican co-sponsors, you blow that off as not "serious" by some standard that only you understand.
Pops

Newport, KY

#19877 Aug 10, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>It's 2013 not 1794, they didn't have huge corporations, Wall Street and huge banks buying the government back then.
Not quite true. They didn't have Microsoft & Exxon either but they had monopolistic shipping magnates, huge land owners, lumber companies, coal companies, merchants of cotton & tobacco, trappers & trading companies etc. And YES, they had large banks. I would say that ALL were comparable to the massive companies of today.
The type of company is not relevant, it is the proportion of the GDP. That's where the power is.
Pops

Newport, KY

#19878 Aug 10, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
If our founding fathers could come back today, they would be outraged at what's taking place.
By design, states were to operate like miniature countries and only congregate for national matters. Healthcare coverage is not a national matter. Neither are retirement benefits, food, shelter, seat belt laws, midnight basketball courts, cell phones, government air conditioners or environmental policies.
These are all state issues and should only be addressed by the state. Our founders would be outraged at how state dependency on federal government allows them to bypass states rights. The very idea that the federal government threatens states by withholding road funding if you don't comply with their wishes gives the federal government unlimited power.

I think if the founders could come back and rewrite the Constitution, it would look nothing like it does today. They would look upon the land and see sloths nursing at the breast of the federal government at the expense of the responsible, and make sure the new Constitution would prohibit such abilities. Hell, half of the people in this country are living partially or entirely off of the federal government. This is not what our founders had in mind and in fact, had the opposite goal.
John Kennedy thought the success of this country depended not on what the country can do for the citizens, but what the citizens can do for their country. Barack Obama and his ilk believe the success of our country depends on what the country can do for the citizen, and not what the citizens can do for the country.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger, on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison. Annals of Congress, 1794
Please let me add that Jefferson said "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have".
In more modern times Kennedy also said "..that we can not tax ourselves to prosperity" & Ron Reagan,'The government isn't the solution to the problem, the government IS the problem", & then Maggie Thatcher said, "Socialism only works until the government runs out of the peoples money". It seems to me that 'WE' have run out of other peoples money or we wouldn't be 16 TRILLION in debt.
We don't need to point the finger at any one president or any one congress, we need to point the finger at the voters. Especially the ones that forgot Kennedy's words that you have already posted; what the people can do for their country.
We need to quit F'ing it up and start sucking it up.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19879 Aug 10, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, so when you said "Then why didn't it receive any support?" you really meant was "It wasn't supported by every Republican in the Senate." And a "serious" attempt is only one that succeeds and becomes law?
But I find it interesting what you are saying about the Republicans back in 1993 --- that when they were confronted with a serious Democratic healthcare proposal, they made up a response which was not really serious. So they were deceiving the public, and had no real interest in healthcare legislation? Was that Heritage Foundation plan on which it was based also just part of the scam?
More to the point, when you are confronted with hard evidence that you are wrong on a matter of historical fact do you ever just admit your error and move on? This all started with you denying that the healthcare mandate had Republican origins. I presented you with the Heritage Foundation document, and then you responded that nothing ever came of it. When presented with evidence of a Republican bill incorporating those ideas that had 19 Republican co-sponsors, you blow that off as not "serious" by some standard that only you understand.
It wasn't a serious bill. That's what I'm saying. It's called "throwing the dog a bone." The same thing is going on today with immigration reform. Republicans don't really want immigration reform. They are just putting on a show so when Democrats accuse them of being against immigrants, the Republicans have something they can defend themselves with.

This is how the game is played, and if you want to follow it, you have to learn what's BS and what isn't. Politicians will say one thing and do another. We've had representatives sponsor bills and then vote against their very own bill. Harry Weed comes to mind. Keep the liberals happy by getting a bill against guns, and then vote against it to keep other people happy and hope the MSM doesn't make a big deal out of it.

If Republicans were serious about national healthcare, they would have introduced a serious bill after they took leadership of Congress. They didn't. They soon realized that the public was totally against national healthcare.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19880 Aug 10, 2013
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Please let me add that Jefferson said "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have".
In more modern times Kennedy also said "..that we can not tax ourselves to prosperity" & Ron Reagan,'The government isn't the solution to the problem, the government IS the problem", & then Maggie Thatcher said, "Socialism only works until the government runs out of the peoples money". It seems to me that 'WE' have run out of other peoples money or we wouldn't be 16 TRILLION in debt.
We don't need to point the finger at any one president or any one congress, we need to point the finger at the voters. Especially the ones that forgot Kennedy's words that you have already posted; what the people can do for their country.
We need to quit F'ing it up and start sucking it up.
Easier said than done.

I often use my raccoon analogy to make the point.

You see a raccoon digging in your garbage, so you give him a nice hunk of roast beef. The raccoon dines in delight taking advantage of the gift you gave him. Now try to take that roast beef away from him and see what happens.

That's the way people are--especially when it comes to government goodies. Once you give that raccoon that roast beef, there is no taking it away without getting bit. Even the most conservative politicians realize this, and they don't dare to take away government goodies.

The exception to that was Welfare Reform created by Newt Gingrich. But the only reason he tackled that is because of the numerous complaints by voters who got sick of seeing people using welfare as a way of life.

We've seen this in the past. Democrats are born liars, so you have to watch what you say and do. If you are against the federal government forcing insurance companies to pay for birth control, the Democrats lie and call it a War on Women. Back in the 90's, the Republicans created block grants for states for welfare and the school lunch program. This took out a lot of government paper pushers, so the Democrats retaliated by saying Republicans want your children to starve. Medicare Reform? The Democrats said Republicans wanted old people to die.

When you deal with people as dishonest as the devil himself, you have to be very clever on what you say and do.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#19881 Aug 10, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
If Republicans were serious about national healthcare, they would have introduced a serious bill after they took leadership of Congress. They didn't. They soon realized that the public was totally against national healthcare.
Really? Most of the older folks I talk to like the idea of no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. And my younger friends like having their kids covered by their insurance until they are 26. Other aspects of the Affordable Care Act have also found wide public support:

"The Kaiser poll shows that some of the major provisions of the law enjoy tremendous bipartisan support, with 71% of respondents supporting Medicaid expansion, 80% of people supporting the new health insurance exchanges and closing the Medicare “doughnut hole,” and a whopping 88% of people in favor of health insurance tax credits to small businesses."

http://www.policymic.com/articles/30657/obama...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#19882 Aug 10, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Most of the older folks I talk to like the idea of no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. And my younger friends like having their kids covered by their insurance until they are 26. Other aspects of the Affordable Care Act have also found wide public support:
"The Kaiser poll shows that some of the major provisions of the law enjoy tremendous bipartisan support, with 71% of respondents supporting Medicaid expansion, 80% of people supporting the new health insurance exchanges and closing the Medicare “doughnut hole,” and a whopping 88% of people in favor of health insurance tax credits to small businesses."
http://www.policymic.com/articles/30657/obama...
problem is the cons out weigh the pros.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19883 Aug 10, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Most of the older folks I talk to like the idea of no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. And my younger friends like having their kids covered by their insurance until they are 26. Other aspects of the Affordable Care Act have also found wide public support:
"The Kaiser poll shows that some of the major provisions of the law enjoy tremendous bipartisan support, with 71% of respondents supporting Medicaid expansion, 80% of people supporting the new health insurance exchanges and closing the Medicare “doughnut hole,” and a whopping 88% of people in favor of health insurance tax credits to small businesses."
http://www.policymic.com/articles/30657/obama...
I guess it depends on who you ask:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/big-majoritie...

If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs for free.

Let me ask: do you think it would be a good idea that we force auto insurance companies to take customers with dangerous driving records or multiple DUI"s? What do you think that would do to your insurance rate?

How about insurance companies that insure homes? Do you think the government should force insurance companies to cover people who are constantly getting flooded out or repeated house fires? And if so, what do you think that would do to your home insurance rates?

If you answered no to both of those questions, then why would you approve of health insurance companies being forced to accept people with preexisting conditions?
Cops

South Point, OH

#19884 Aug 10, 2013
I think Trent Smoot should run for Gov
BUBBA

Kenton, OH

#19886 Aug 11, 2013
You people sound like someone with a paper ass and it's all torn up---all blow and no go
d pantz

United States

#19888 Aug 11, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>Wow! your IQ test results came back. They're negative.
good reply. My health insurance got more HR personal at the corporation I work for said its only going to keep going up. When it gets cheaper I will make sure to tell them their IQ scores are in the negative....
d pantz

United States

#19889 Aug 11, 2013
My premiums went up. sorry about the in complete sentence
d pantz

United States

#19890 Aug 11, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>It's 2013 not 1794, they didn't have huge corporations, Wall Street and huge banks buying the government back then.
you're wrong. The revolutionary war started in part by british merchant banks not accepting fiat currency from the colonies for private debts.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19891 Aug 11, 2013
d pantz wrote:
<quoted text> good reply. My health insurance got more HR personal at the corporation I work for said its only going to keep going up. When it gets cheaper I will make sure to tell them their IQ scores are in the negative....
I told my employer I was looking to drop our healthcare coverage because it didn't cover anything. He was upset because he pays so much for health insurance and it's not helping his employees. He had to keep getting cheaper and cheaper coverage because of the cost since this moron became president.

I explained to him that I discussed the problem with the billing people at the facility I go to. She told me that if I didn't have any healthcare insurance, the clinic would cover me for everything from a simple doctors visit to major surgery.

Sounds all fine and dandy, right? Wrong. The Communist will take money from me if I go that route as of next year. I will have to have healthcare coverage and may end up in the same situation I'm in today. If not for the Communists, my problems would pretty much be solved.

I was discussing this situation with one of my tenants. She and her live-in boyfriend both work fast food jobs because they don't want to give up smoking pot to get a real jobs. In that discussion, I was bashing DumBama.

She told me that because of DumBama, she and her boyfriend have excellent medical coverage. So what this complete idiot did was fix it so that those who want to smoke pot and make low income to have better medical coverage than a person like me who invested his money in real estate and took on a career as a professional tractor-trailer operator.

DumBama and the Democrats are mortal enemies of responsible hard working people.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#19892 Aug 11, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I explained to him that I discussed the problem with the billing people at the facility I go to. She told me that if I didn't have any healthcare insurance, the clinic would cover me for everything from a simple doctors visit to major surgery.
Wow! So you've found a "facility" that offers free healthcare, including major surgery? Why don't you share this discovery with the rest of us?

Since everything is covered, why do they need "billing people"?
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19893 Aug 11, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! So you've found a "facility" that offers free healthcare, including major surgery? Why don't you share this discovery with the rest of us?
Since everything is covered, why do they need "billing people"?
Not sure, perhaps it's because I've been a lifelong patient. They also have a program with people like myself who now have crummy insurance, but it only applies if you make less than $11,000 per year.

I don't know if it's a clinic policy or a government policy. But she told me they used to have a program for people like myself and it had no minimum income, but they got rid of it for some reason.

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