Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#16023 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that it runs counter to logic because it runs counter to your expectations.
I think in the US that there's a very common myth that carrying (or owning a gun) makes you safer. I would strongly encourage you to look into the data on your own.
If you've got a portal to access academic papers, I'm more than happy to grab the address for you.
He won't believe you, no matter how much evidence you provide. It could be a stack of studies as tall as Mt. Everest.

One or two anecdotal incidents from either his own experience, or that of a friend of a friend, would be enough to cast the data aside as irrelevant.

woof
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#16024 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that it runs counter to logic because it runs counter to your expectations.
I think in the US that there's a very common myth that carrying (or owning a gun) makes you safer. I would strongly encourage you to look into the data on your own.
If you've got a portal to access academic papers, I'm more than happy to grab the address for you.
Maybe somebody on the net posts their findings and you can give me that address.

It's pure logic: somebody breaks into your home with a gun, bat or knife. Are you safer with a gun or without? If somebody is out to kill you or bring you harm, how is being defenseless an advantage?

Better question: several administrators at the Conn. grade school were armed. Do you think those kids stood a better chance with an armed teacher or worse? If worse, please explain.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16025 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe somebody on the net posts their findings and you can give me that address.
It's pure logic: somebody breaks into your home with a gun, bat or knife. Are you safer with a gun or without? If somebody is out to kill you or bring you harm, how is being defenseless an advantage?
Better question: several administrators at the Conn. grade school were armed. Do you think those kids stood a better chance with an armed teacher or worse? If worse, please explain.
Test these assumptions.

Here are some questions to try, I would add some of your own as you expand your research.

What are the chances a firearm kept in the home will be used against an attacker?

What are the chances that a firearm kept within the home will injure or kill a member of the household?

How often are guns successfully used in self defence in the United States?

What links do gun ownership have with expected lifespan?

Does gun ownership impact domestic violence outlooks, positively or negatively?

What impact does possessing a gun have on the outcome of an assault?

I'm thinking that any data I pass to you is going to be read as anti gun. I heartily and honestly encourage you to look into this on your own.

Here's the abstract to the 4.5 study. If you've got access to academic journals, take a look at the methods. I'm not going to tell you what standards to apply, though I would personally encourage you to see out empirical studies rather than surveys, as they're less moved by participant bias.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16026 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#16027 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
Vague at best. I'll look around the net when I have some time; usually on the weekend. Again, these statistics may include drug deals, people who tried to use a firearm to scare an opponent such as a brother or father, a dispute with a neighbor over kids making noise or their dog entering their property. It could be anything.

The information I would like to find is how many CCW holders who were attacked by an opponent unprovoked that had every right and intent of using a firearm somehow made it worse on themselves than better.

Rule number one about firearms: if you pull a gun out, you better have every intent on using it. If you're pulling it out to scare somebody who knows you well enough that you will not use it, then you might get your face pounded in.

People may be angered enough to pull a gun, but when they think about being arrested, killing somebody and facing murder charges, they sober up pretty quickly. When a legitimate CCW holder or homeowner is attacked by a stranger, he or she has no fear of using the weapon because they are protected by law. Big difference.

What I'm saying is that these numbers might very well reflect people who threatened to use their firearm out of anger and not total self-defense.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#16028 Dec 19, 2012
Here are just a few stories of how armed citizens saved themselves or others:

http://www.kc3.com/self_defense/officers_peri...
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#16029 Dec 19, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many poor, uneducated third worlders have shot up a mall, movie theater, political rally or school lately?
Can't answer that.'3rd worlders' are largely illiterate & largely have censorship. But many '3rd worlders' do have easy access to all kinds of weapons.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#16030 Dec 19, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Guns can swim.
I guess that you are right on this one. A short time back a lot of them crossed the Rio Grande/Rio Bravo.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16031 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Then it sounds pretty much anti-gun because if they claim having a gun makes it more likely to be assaulted defies logic. They must be including a lot of data from people in the commission of a crime or otherwise not legally allowed to carry a gun in the first place.
She didn't say that having a gun makes you more likely to be assaulted. She said the study said if you have a gun when you get assaulted you are more likely to get shot.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16032 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe somebody on the net posts their findings and you can give me that address.
It's pure logic: somebody breaks into your home with a gun, bat or knife. Are you safer with a gun or without? If somebody is out to kill you or bring you harm, how is being defenseless an advantage?
Better question: several administrators at the Conn. grade school were armed. Do you think those kids stood a better chance with an armed teacher or worse? If worse, please explain.
Most burglars, when confronted, run. Most burglars, when confronted with a gun, consider themselves to be in a self defense situation and fight back before they run. Since you love anecdotal evidence, I will say that I have never seen a home invasion that involved the discharge of a firearm other than when the homeowner had a gun too.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16033 Dec 19, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Can't answer that.'3rd worlders' are largely illiterate & largely have censorship. But many '3rd worlders' do have easy access to all kinds of weapons.
What in the world are you trying to say?
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#16034 Dec 19, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
Laws don't work on WingNuts either apparently.
Most criminals ARE Wingnuts..
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#16035 Dec 19, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Most burglars, when confronted, run. Most burglars, when confronted with a gun, consider themselves to be in a self defense situation and fight back before they run. Since you love anecdotal evidence, I will say that I have never seen a home invasion that involved the discharge of a firearm other than when the homeowner had a gun too.
Now there's liberal logic for you: if an intruder sees you, he will run, but if he sees you with a firearm ready to kill him, he will attack you instead. LOL!
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#16036 Dec 19, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
4-Year-Old Shoots And Kills 2-Year-Old Brother With Loaded Gun ... www.mommyish.com/2012/12/08/gun-control/
Dec 8, 2012 ... 4-year-old boy shoots and kills his 2-year-old brother.... for the gun and he and his brother (the child's father) had attended gun safety classes.
Father Accidentally Shoots 7-Year-Old, Let's Not ... www.mommyish.com/2012/12/10/gun-control-child...
Dec 10, 2012 ... Father Accidentally Shoots And Kills His 7-Year-Old Son & More Gun ... How, exactly, does one accidentally point a handgun at a child's chest while ... Gun safety classes emphasize this heavily, and they tell you never to point ...
[ More results from www.mommyish.com ]
Tragedy as Father Accidentally Shoots 7-Year-Old Son Outside ... www.theblaze.com/stories/tragedy-as-father-ac... ...
Dec 8, 2012 ...(TheBlaze/AP)-- A man's handgun went off as he was getting into ... he had taken the normally required safety course to obtain a CCL.... I'm just saying that guns mostly kill the bad guys and that incidents of guns killing kids or ...
Father fatally shoots son outside Pennsylvania gun store -... news.yahoo.com/father-fatally-shoots-son-outs... ...
Dec 8, 2012 ... Craig Allen Loughrey was shot in the chest by a handgun his father, Joseph V. Loughrey, 44,... The boy died at the scene of the shooting, which happened at 10 :50 a.m....... Pa. dad kills son in accidental shooting at gun store .... People who are trained in gun use would never allow a loaded weapon to be ...
Sad true stories. And in EVERYONE of these cases, the parent/guardian/adult should have charged with neglect, endangerment, accessory or even negligent homocide depending on applicable laws to the circumstances. And NOT plea bargained. Yes, losing your own child when the adult was stupid is of itself a serious punishment but time behind bars too will make a mental impact on others too.
Then some dumbasses may think before keeping a gun in the coffee table drawer or under their pillow or 'cleaning it' when it isn't unloaded or whatever. IF the media gives these events greater press exposure.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#16037 Dec 19, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
What in the world are you trying to say?
Your question could apply to your own post that I responded too which was off of topic. Like Comparing coconuts to bananas.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16038 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Now there's liberal logic for you: if an intruder sees you, he will run, but if he sees you with a firearm ready to kill him, he will attack you instead. LOL!
It's the truth. The only people I have seen shot in home invasions were those who had guns themselves. Most times, they were shot with their own guns.

You don't like scientific studies and prefer anecdotal evidence. That's what I gave you. It seems you simply don't like information that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16039 Dec 19, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Your question could apply to your own post that I responded too which was off of topic. Like Comparing coconuts to bananas.
My posts was in direct response to another's post. Learn to read in context. Christ.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#16040 Dec 19, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Your question could apply to your own post that I responded too which was off of topic. Like Comparing coconuts to bananas.
I think bananas are cheaper.

woof
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#16041 Dec 19, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the truth. The only people I have seen shot in home invasions were those who had guns themselves. Most times, they were shot with their own guns.
You don't like scientific studies and prefer anecdotal evidence. That's what I gave you. It seems you simply don't like information that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
Go to Google and type in GUN and INTRUDER and tell me if that's what you see. Countless...... I mean countless stories of armed people protecting their home and family. I haven't found one yet where the story ends up with the armed homeowner assaulted while he (she) is holding a firearm.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#16042 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Go to Google and type in GUN and INTRUDER and tell me if that's what you see. Countless...... I mean countless stories of armed people protecting their home and family. I haven't found one yet where the story ends up with the armed homeowner assaulted while he (she) is holding a firearm.
So what? That doesn't make my anecdotes untrue.

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