Who do you support for Governor in Oh...

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#16004 Dec 18, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
About the same as our decades long war on drugs. Now we have the highest percentage of our population locked up in jail compared to the rest of the industrialized world because or recreational narcotics.
Laws don't work on criminals. The reason they are criminals is because they break laws.
Laws don't work on WingNuts either apparently.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#16005 Dec 18, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy Murders Mother | DNAinfo.com
www.dnainfo.com/
16 Yr-Old Arrested After His Mother Was Found Stuffed In Trash Bin.
Web Results8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father - CBS News www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-4586103.html
Feb 11, 2009 ... Police in this small eastern Arizona community are looking into the possibility that an 8-year-old boy who is charged with killing his father and ...
Officials: Father Accidentally Shoots, Kills Son Outside Gun ... www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Officials-... ...
Dec 8, 2012 ... The boy was shot Saturday morning at Twigs Reloading Den in East Lackawannock Township, 60 miles north of Pittsburgh.
Police: Boy, 3, accidentally shoots, kills father in Indiana ... news.yahoo.com/police-boy-3-accidentally-shoo... ...
Jul 14, 2012 ... From Yahoo! News: SALEM, Ind.- Police say a 3-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his father after finding the man's loaded handgun in ...
Police: 4-year-old boy shoots and kills toddler brother, using ... www.wcti12.com/news/Police-4-year-old-boy-sho... -...
Dec 6, 2012 ... A 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his 2-year-old brother, using their father's handgun, police said.
thank you for making my point.

adults and children need to learn gun safety as much as they do swimming.

it will save their life.
Reality speaks

Columbus, OH

#16006 Dec 18, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
Stay tuned for statement from NRA on Friday. Things are moving right along. Although I am hpoeful, I am also skeptical the statement will contain any thing other that what you have been saying.
did you disagree with what I said?

and if you did ....how so?

you posted tons of links to support what I said about gun safety being taught in schools with instruction; and also swimming lessons.

it will save lives. no guessing ......it will

Since: Aug 12

United States

#16007 Dec 18, 2012
95% of felonies commited with guns are done so by admitted democrats.

Why don't we ban democrats?

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#16008 Dec 18, 2012
Gun Control - Just Facts www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp - Similarto Gun Control - Just Facts

Learn more about guns and gun control through studies, statistics, and published facts.... 42% of Americans will be the victim of a completed violent crime (assault, robbery,... 2003-2005, more than 90% were committed by people with criminal records.... It is illegal and punishable by up to 10 years in prison for the following ...


MSNBC
As NRA Hides from Public After Newtown, ALEC Ties Reveal Extensive Lobbying Behind US Gun Laws

Democracy Now - 13 hours ago
My sign represents today how I was a victim of gun violence.... But the fact is, is that the NRA has been working with ALEC for decades.

Backgrounder: the History of the NRA/ALEC Gun Agenda | PR Watch

PR WatchAs NRA Hides From Public After Newtown, ALEC ...- Democracy Now! www.democracynow.org/seo/2012/12/18/as_nra_hi...

13 hours ago ... According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the NRA has spent more than ... Moore on Newtown, Mass Shootings, and the U.S. Culture of Violence Dec 18,... "Backgrounder: The History of the NRA/ALEC Gun Agenda.
Daily Kos: ALEC knows Guns; because ALEC knows the NRA www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/18/1171406/-AL... ...

23 hours ago ... Backgrounder: the History of the NRA/ALEC Gun Agenda ... purchases different from the federal Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act,...
Is My Own Gun More Likely to be Used Against Me or My ...-... www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html - Similarto Is My Own Gun More Likely to be Used Against Me or My ...-...

GunCite - A web-site dedicated to a comprehensive analysis of gun control and ... a homeowner's gun is more likely to kill its owner or family member than kill a criminal, and therefore "the advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection ... Regardless of how the number crunching had turned-out between gun and ...

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#16009 Dec 18, 2012
Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home:... aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.ful...
Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from ... To address these limitations, previous researchers have used case-control study ... or suicide in the home will be committed with a firearm or by using other means...... occur each year by people to protect themselves or their property against assaults,...
Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.
Key words
firearms; homicide; suicide; violence; wounds and injuries
Previous SectionNext Section
Received for publication February 9, 2004; accepted for publication June 7, 2004.
Previous SectionNext Section
Over 50,000 homicides and suicides occur each year in the United States (1), making them among the leading causes of death, particularly for young people. In 2001, homicide was the second leading cause of death and suicide the third for persons 15–24 years of age (2). Approximately 60 percent of all homicides and suicides in the United States are committed with a firearm (2).
Although an estimated 40 percent of adults in the United States report keeping a gun in the home for recreational or protective purposes (3), the risks and benefits of this practice are widely disputed in the literature (4, 5). Ecologic analyses have suggested a link between the prevalence of gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide (6–8) and between regulations restricting access to firearms and rates of homicide and suicide (9–12). Although these studies are useful in demonstrating an association between access to firearms and rates of homicide and suicide at the aggregate level, it is not possible with this methodology to adequately assess whether access to a gun increases the risk of a violent death at the individual level.
To address these limitations, previous researchers have used case-control study methodology to evaluate the relation between gun ownership and risk of a violent death in the home. For example, Kellermann et al.(13, 14) examined the relation between gun ownership and injury outcomes. After they controlled for a number of potentially confounding factors, the presence of a gun in the home was associated with a nearly fivefold risk of suicide (adjusted odds ratio = 4.8)(13) and an almost threefold risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio = 2.7)(14). Other case-control studies have also found an increased risk of suicide for those with firearms in the home, with relative risks ranging from 2.1 to 4.4 (15–19).

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#16010 Dec 18, 2012
Reality speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
did you disagree with what I said?
and if you did ....how so?
you posted tons of links to support what I said about gun safety being taught in schools with instruction; and also swimming lessons.
it will save lives. no guessing ......it will
Read the Oxford Study. Balance of Study can be found by the link at the top.
Thomas Scutillo

United States

#16011 Dec 19, 2012
with lazer printers and stun guns coming into the gun powder world we need a nra for more deadly weapons then guns nLa nation LAZER assoc
Thomas Scutillo

United States

#16012 Dec 19, 2012
lets face it the nRa is taking up market space A REAL WEAPON could use

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16013 Dec 19, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure that anyone can follow this argument. I have just 'cruised' the last 3 pages & it looks like a 50 car pile up or a double set of pic-up stix!
Some of these polls or links are too focused/specific to add to the arguments & others are too vague. Interesting tho.
I know, everything got a bit piled up and pushed pretty far from my point!

The argument I wanted to look further at was the idea that limiting guns doesn't stop violent crime, as criminals will find another weapon. Looking at the massive downturn in homicide faced here and in other countries that have instituted gun control, I'm having a difficult time clearly seeing where this argument could gain ground, except in the absence of data.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16014 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never seen such statistics. The statistics I have seen show that criminals are more afraid to commit a crime where people can defend themselves than Victim Zones where they know nobody is armed.
Do explain: how is one less safe with a gun than without during an assault?
Because real studies rarely pretend to fully explain complex, real life interactions and instead compile data and suggest causes in small, incremental steps, there isn't a clear and simple summary of why having a gun in an assault makes you more likely to be shot, only the data showing that you're 4.45 times more likely to be shot of you're carrying a weapon.

Though the authors do very gently suggest rethinking carrying a weapon for safety, especially in areas more likely to be at risk of assault or in domestic violence contexts.
Che Reagan Christ

Medina, OH

#16017 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#16020 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
Because real studies rarely pretend to fully explain complex, real life interactions and instead compile data and suggest causes in small, incremental steps, there isn't a clear and simple summary of why having a gun in an assault makes you more likely to be shot, only the data showing that you're 4.45 times more likely to be shot of you're carrying a weapon.
Though the authors do very gently suggest rethinking carrying a weapon for safety, especially in areas more likely to be at risk of assault or in domestic violence contexts.
Then it sounds pretty much anti-gun because if they claim having a gun makes it more likely to be assaulted defies logic. They must be including a lot of data from people in the commission of a crime or otherwise not legally allowed to carry a gun in the first place.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#16021 Dec 19, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
Laws don't work on WingNuts either apparently.
And what laws would those be?

Point is your leaders lie to you as usual. Laws are not going to stop any school shooting. Like the last assault weapons ban, it won't change a thing. It's not like it's theory or anything, it's already been proven.

"Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results each time."

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16022 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Then it sounds pretty much anti-gun because if they claim having a gun makes it more likely to be assaulted defies logic. They must be including a lot of data from people in the commission of a crime or otherwise not legally allowed to carry a gun in the first place.
You're saying that it runs counter to logic because it runs counter to your expectations.

I think in the US that there's a very common myth that carrying (or owning a gun) makes you safer. I would strongly encourage you to look into the data on your own.

If you've got a portal to access academic papers, I'm more than happy to grab the address for you.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#16023 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that it runs counter to logic because it runs counter to your expectations.
I think in the US that there's a very common myth that carrying (or owning a gun) makes you safer. I would strongly encourage you to look into the data on your own.
If you've got a portal to access academic papers, I'm more than happy to grab the address for you.
He won't believe you, no matter how much evidence you provide. It could be a stack of studies as tall as Mt. Everest.

One or two anecdotal incidents from either his own experience, or that of a friend of a friend, would be enough to cast the data aside as irrelevant.

woof
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#16024 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that it runs counter to logic because it runs counter to your expectations.
I think in the US that there's a very common myth that carrying (or owning a gun) makes you safer. I would strongly encourage you to look into the data on your own.
If you've got a portal to access academic papers, I'm more than happy to grab the address for you.
Maybe somebody on the net posts their findings and you can give me that address.

It's pure logic: somebody breaks into your home with a gun, bat or knife. Are you safer with a gun or without? If somebody is out to kill you or bring you harm, how is being defenseless an advantage?

Better question: several administrators at the Conn. grade school were armed. Do you think those kids stood a better chance with an armed teacher or worse? If worse, please explain.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16025 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe somebody on the net posts their findings and you can give me that address.
It's pure logic: somebody breaks into your home with a gun, bat or knife. Are you safer with a gun or without? If somebody is out to kill you or bring you harm, how is being defenseless an advantage?
Better question: several administrators at the Conn. grade school were armed. Do you think those kids stood a better chance with an armed teacher or worse? If worse, please explain.
Test these assumptions.

Here are some questions to try, I would add some of your own as you expand your research.

What are the chances a firearm kept in the home will be used against an attacker?

What are the chances that a firearm kept within the home will injure or kill a member of the household?

How often are guns successfully used in self defence in the United States?

What links do gun ownership have with expected lifespan?

Does gun ownership impact domestic violence outlooks, positively or negatively?

What impact does possessing a gun have on the outcome of an assault?

I'm thinking that any data I pass to you is going to be read as anti gun. I heartily and honestly encourage you to look into this on your own.

Here's the abstract to the 4.5 study. If you've got access to academic journals, take a look at the methods. I'm not going to tell you what standards to apply, though I would personally encourage you to see out empirical studies rather than surveys, as they're less moved by participant bias.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#16026 Dec 19, 2012
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#16027 Dec 19, 2012
tranpsosition wrote:
Vague at best. I'll look around the net when I have some time; usually on the weekend. Again, these statistics may include drug deals, people who tried to use a firearm to scare an opponent such as a brother or father, a dispute with a neighbor over kids making noise or their dog entering their property. It could be anything.

The information I would like to find is how many CCW holders who were attacked by an opponent unprovoked that had every right and intent of using a firearm somehow made it worse on themselves than better.

Rule number one about firearms: if you pull a gun out, you better have every intent on using it. If you're pulling it out to scare somebody who knows you well enough that you will not use it, then you might get your face pounded in.

People may be angered enough to pull a gun, but when they think about being arrested, killing somebody and facing murder charges, they sober up pretty quickly. When a legitimate CCW holder or homeowner is attacked by a stranger, he or she has no fear of using the weapon because they are protected by law. Big difference.

What I'm saying is that these numbers might very well reflect people who threatened to use their firearm out of anger and not total self-defense.

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