Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1732 Jun 21, 2013
D_Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said God can not work through a doctor? Of course he can. However a believer has no need to share this experience with a doctor, and God does not share this glory with men.
God also is not the author of confusion, and to any unbeliever, a healing performed by God toward someone under the care of a doctor, is attributed to the physician and his expertise.
Darren the church the topic of this has caused a lot of confusion in that children of this church routinely die of illness or injury of a type that doctors routinely help or save people. I would have to say that the church of the Firstborn has caused more people to turn away from God by making claims that are contrary to what the eyes see.
Every one is a critic

Avon, CO

#1733 Jun 21, 2013
member019 wrote:
<quoted text>
By that logic you would have to agree that if a parent wants to throw their child into a volcano to appease god then they should be permitted to.
Sounds like you are heartless to me.
I Think enough has been asked & said about this subject. The famous line I believe is…
“NEXT”
LIK

Columbus, IN

#1734 Jun 30, 2013
member019 wrote:
<quoted text>
Darren the church the topic of this has caused a lot of confusion in that children of this church routinely die of illness or injury of a type that doctors routinely help or save people. I would have to say that the church of the Firstborn has caused more people to turn away from God by making claims that are contrary to what the eyes see.
was raised in this church--left at 18--haven't been back--saw ministers actually fight over this topic--one would preach on it--set down and one would get up and preach against it right after, as the church I attended was split about this. Thank God my parents were among those that believed in Dr's or I wouldn't be typing this. I saw much fighting and many hipocrites (sp)while growing up in this church, By the time I was 10 I understood that these people were very misguided " Christians " and couldn't find anything Christian about them. They scared me to death!! No grace or love only Hell fire,and fear!I turned away from God as they made God sound as bad as Satan--God was a vengeful God bla bla bal--you're going to Hell if you don't belong tot he COTF--all other religions are going to hell because they don't belong to COTF--have seen people testify about their child dating a Catholic and you would think they would rather thier child be dead than date a Catholic---I turned away from God until at age 30 I met a true Christian woman who showed me what God was all about--love, grace, and salvation---I now have a strong faith in God but still can not go to church as I almost hypervenalte at the thought of someone coming to me in prophecy during a service and telling me I am going to hell or singleing me out to preach to ( happened alot when I was a kid and the only person in the church not a member. I have friends who have lost brothers and sisters due to their parents letting them die when medical attention would have saved them. I came close to loosing a friend in high school due to this but she pulled through after her mother nursed her at home for 6 months--she left the minute she got well---cut her hair really short--that she had been forbidden to cut and started wearing really short shorts, as she had been only allowed to wear long dresses. I believe if an adult choses not to go to a Dr. that is thier choice BUT they should NOT be allowed by law to make choices for another person ( a helpless child ) even if it is their child--just because they brought it into this world they do not own it or have the right to take it out of this world!!!
Naldin

Fort Madison, IA

#1735 Jul 12, 2013
Kevin from Del City wrote:
I don't know about anyone else here but the God I believe in doesn't help those who do not help themselves. Reminds me of a story someone told me:
A man is in his home in the country, his nearest neighbor is miles away. A rain-driven flash flood drives him to his roof for saftey. Soon a boat comes along and motions him to get in. The man turns the boat away, assured that God will look after and protect him from the raging flood below. As the flood water raises higher another boat comes along, he turns this one away as well. Now the flood water is covering most of his house and the rain shows no sign of relenting. A helicopter approaches overhead and lowers a rescue line. The man pushes it away and waves them off. Soon after the flood waters crest over the man's home and he drowns. At the pearly gates the man asks God why he didn't save him. To which God responds "What more do you want? I sent two boats and a helicopter."
Morale of the story, we have the things we have and can do the things we do not by chance and medicine is no exception. If it's your time then the entire cast of ER couldn't save you but if it isn't you'll live on.
While not really following any organized faith personally (I'm more agnostic than anything) I do recongnize that miracles are not overt, atleast not in the modern day. Prayer is all well and good, but if you are sick or hurt go to the hospital. God does not help those who do not make the effort to help themselves.
No where in the bible does it say that God helps those who help themselves... its just not in there.. in fact it says the exact opposite that the lord helps those who cannot help themselves.. Tho it also does not say to sit on our hands either... in fact the bible says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test"... so if a doctor can help you then you get the help... but your first line just isn't biblical and discourages people who are unable to help themselves...
anonymous

Enid, OK

#1737 Nov 10, 2013
To one upset mother: you dont know what ur talking about. Our religion is not a cult. It never has been it never will be. No one has been shunned in the church thats not who we are. We dont have anything against doctors or medicine. We CHOOSE not to use them because the bible says not to put your faith in man. Therefore we dont. Theee is so much about our religion you don't know. So stop dissing on our religion until you have been in it and been to a meeting amd seen what it's like.
LIK

Columbus, IN

#1738 Nov 10, 2013
To anonymous: I HAVE been in your religion and I HAVE seen what it was like for 18 years growing up in "the faith". I do beleive you think you are right. However, I HAVE Seen children die who could have been saved by a doctor, and know of many others. BY CHOOSING not to take your children to doctors you are making a choice to aloow them to die when God GAVE MAN the knowledge to heal them.
The power and faith lies with GOD but the technical knowledge lies with man. I feel sorry for you--may God bless you and forgive you for letting your children die.
The Apple Pie Life

Avon, CO

#1739 Nov 15, 2013
anonymous wrote:
To one upset mother: you dont know what ur talking about. Our religion is not a cult. It never has been it never will be. No one has been shunned in the church thats not who we are. We dont have anything against doctors or medicine. We CHOOSE not to use them because the bible says not to put your faith in man. Therefore we dont. Theee is so much about our religion you don't know. So stop dissing on our religion until you have been in it and been to a meeting amd seen what it's like.
The definition of cult: that I believe, people are, implying, is from Webster’s Dictionary, 3rd article...
“3 A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents”
Spurious means not genuine sincere or authentic: a crossword to it would be Pseudo pronounced su-do not real or genuine... there are: 12 other, synonyms to, spurious as, well. To be candidly honest: some of, the things, that-are, practiced in, this church,(like the, Amish religion) are-perceived, as unorthodox.
As far as no one-being shunned: that is Gary or Mary Sue talk for a fact; I understand your desire to defend your-self from the bad press, do not get me wrong… written by some people that did not know their right hand from their left hand. The facts are that things like shunning disagreements e-t-c have happened in just about all religions throughout time, & this church is no exception (some have more dark days than others; some to remain dark always). These things just happen; some are just never able to attain the Apple pie life, & it is only by God’s good mercy that one does attain it.
To all the complainers about the lose of the children… A final thought...
“Eccl 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say,“that an untimely birth” is better than he.”
“6:4 For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness.”
“6:5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing:“this hath more rest than the other”.”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1740 Nov 16, 2013
anonymous wrote:
No one has been shunned in the church thats not who we are. We dont have anything against doctors or medicine. We CHOOSE not to use them because the bible says not to put your faith in man.
This is a lie.

Shunning happens often.

People do not choose to avoid doctors, they are brainwashed into believing they are condemned if they do. Children are kept from doctors this is true as you can read about the may criminal cases.

Be honest.
Jim Dukes

Wasilla, AK

#1741 Nov 17, 2013
Indoctrination of the young before the age of reason & willful ignorance of adult members creates a culture of fear, guilt & peer pressure. This does not allow most to question what they believe or more importantly why they believe. They tell themselves that they have faith in God, but in truth, their faith is actually in what they have been taught to believe by others who were taught to believe.
Jim Dukes

Wasilla, AK

#1742 Nov 17, 2013
To say that members are free to doctor if they so desire is equal to saying a member of the KKK is free to date a black person. Of course the freedom exists, but the consequences are obvious. The larger problem is that parents make life and death decisions for their children based on these obvious consequences, all while utilizing optometrists and dentists for their own comfort.
Zinger

United States

#1743 Nov 17, 2013
anonymous wrote:
To one upset mother: you dont know what ur talking about. Our religion is not a cult. It never has been it never will be. No one has been shunned in the church thats not who we are. We dont have anything against doctors or medicine. We CHOOSE not to use them because the bible says not to put your faith in man. Therefore we dont. Theee is so much about our religion you don't know. So stop dissing on our religion until you have been in it and been to a meeting amd seen what it's like.
You aren't suggesting that GOD is unable to work through a physician or surgeon are you? "With GOD all things are possible".
Every one is a critic

Avon, CO

#1744 Nov 17, 2013
The shunning issue: is-based on many variables… from my experience: some people, have a, twisted perception, of the, way a, church &, its members, should be; like having, co-workers, I know, them, I do not, dislike them, but we, are not, tight friends, & probably, never, will be. Some people-are not charismatic & do not make friends easy, nor have the desire… As far as-being sunned do to formality, if-one is breaking the rules of the circles formality than that would be expected to happen. As far as the assembly just not liking someone...(like music it is pretty rare to have a love at first hearing) then no matter how well they do they will not be welcomed in (their a piece from a different jig-saw puzzle that does not belong there)… & why one would want to stay: in a place where they are going to be hated & treated badly without logical reason is beyond me; because their getting the famous 7 word line from God…
“It’s not meant to be for you!”
This is a very common tale.
Jim Dukes

Wasilla, AK

#1745 Nov 17, 2013
To be shunned by those you would just as soon have nothing to do with is a far cry from being shunned by the only community you have ever been part of (family, friends, life long acquaintances)especially when the reason for the "shunning" is disagreements that usually boil down to issues they would rather not talk about due to the weakness of their defense.
Every one is a critic

Avon, CO

#1746 Nov 17, 2013
Jim Dukes wrote:
To be shunned by those you would just as soon have nothing to do with is a far cry from being shunned by the only community you have ever been part of (family, friends, life long acquaintances)especially when the reason for the "shunning" is disagreements that usually boil down to issues they would rather not talk about due to the weakness of their defense.
It’s sad, but it’s a very common tale; as Timothy B Schmit, so eloquently, said…
“From all my experience: all bands, are on, the verge, of, breaking up”
From my experience church groups are the same way, they come & go. Some church groups that I have been to being together for 2 hours was 2 hours to long.
That Is Qool

Eagle, CO

#1747 Dec 27, 2013
At age 30 I met a true Christian woman who showed me what God was all about—love, grace, and salvation—I now have a strong faith in God...

It sounds like you've got your self a pretty good deal!
That Is Qool

Eagle, CO

#1748 Dec 27, 2013
LIK wrote:
<quoted text>
was raised in this church--left at 18--haven't been back--saw ministers actually fight over this topic--one would preach on it--set down and one would get up and preach against it right after, as the church I attended was split about this. Thank God my parents were among those that believed in Dr's or I wouldn't be typing this. I saw much fighting and many hipocrites (sp)while growing up in this church, By the time I was 10 I understood that these people were very misguided " Christians " and couldn't find anything Christian about them. They scared me to death!! No grace or love only Hell fire,and fear!I turned away from God as they made God sound as bad as Satan--God was a vengeful God bla bla bal--you're going to Hell if you don't belong tot he COTF--all other religions are going to hell because they don't belong to COTF--have seen people testify about their child dating a Catholic and you would think they would rather thier child be dead than date a Catholic---I turned away from God until at age 30 I met a true Christian woman who showed me what God was all about--love, grace, and salvation---I now have a strong faith in God but still can not go to church as I almost hypervenalte at the thought of someone coming to me in prophecy during a service and telling me I am going to hell or singleing me out to preach to ( happened alot when I was a kid and the only person in the church not a member. I have friends who have lost brothers and sisters due to their parents letting them die when medical attention would have saved them. I came close to loosing a friend in high school due to this but she pulled through after her mother nursed her at home for 6 months--she left the minute she got well---cut her hair really short--that she had been forbidden to cut and started wearing really short shorts, as she had been only allowed to wear long dresses. I believe if an adult choses not to go to a Dr. that is thier choice BUT they should NOT be allowed by law to make choices for another person ( a helpless child ) even if it is their child--just because they brought it into this world they do not own it or have the right to take it out of this world!!!
"At age 30 I met a true Christian woman who showed me what God was all about—love, grace, and salvation—I now have a strong faith in God..."

It sounds like you've got your self a pretty good deal!
A Member of the Church

United States

#1750 Mar 4, 2014
I came across this on a Google search, I was looking for history on my church (The General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn). Now I want to first say that the name of my church is just a name.

I am part of the Body of Christ. any educated Christian should understand that. I will say to someone who asks if I'm from the General Assembly Church of the Firstborn, that Yes, I am from the church. But more importantly I am a part of the people of that church. Not the building or name of the church.

Before the people that assembly at this church had a name for it, they were just people that believed in God, they had no organization such as a church, they might have a building to hold meetings but it was just people that believed.

So why did they or do they believe? Why do you believe what you believe?

Something had to have happened in your life that brought you to a level that made you say now that's the truth.

l'll tell you how I came to believe.

I grew up in and around the "faith".
I went to church just like everyone else,
When I got sick, I was sick, my body fought of the sickness I got better. When I broke my leg in a football game me and my dad put the cast on ourselves, its not that hard to cast a simple break. Any doctor can tell you that. And actual the school wanted me to get it check with a Doctor, and I did. He cut off my cast took a look at it, said yep its broke and then said that we did a good job with the cast. Go home and put another one on.

Out of High school I left my home state and travelled to California, still going to a assembly there but got mix up with all sorts of bad people, Drugs, Alochol, Not very good things and really took a different approach on life. It wasn't until I was in my 20's that I got baptist in the church.

Why did I get baptized? I had seen things that made me believe, those things were outside of what I had seen at home, they were things that happened to me personally.

I once was injured at work, the next day my stomach was swelled up I couldn't keep food down very well I got very sick. I was sick for 5months. It went away.
Years later it came back with deductive reasoning I figured something must be wrong with my liver. The swelling was were my liver is. I was sick to the point that I couldn't work. I couldn't even drive anything. My brother had to fly in and drive me back to my home state. I weighed 152 before I was sick, before I was healed I weight 120.
A brother in the church came to my home several states away and prayed for me. It wasn't some amazing event he came anointed me with olive oil (on my head) and prayed that I would be healed. The next day the swelling was gone, I felt so much better, the day after that I was just fine. I even stack some wood outside and went on a hick.

And that is just one of the times that I had experienced something real. That made me thing maybe there is something to this group of people.

I will admit there are bad people out there, and there are Cults, But the people that I stand by in this church are just normal people that believe in something that is real.

How many children do you think have been healed by God right in front of these people?

If God wants you to die, your going to die, if God wants you to live your going to live. Its that simple.

I believe that because I've been there.
Tommy

Dallas, TX

#1751 Mar 5, 2014
I came across this on a Google search, I was looking for history on my church (The General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn). Now I want to first say that the name of my church is just a name.
I am part of the Body of Christ. any educated Christian should understand that. I will say to someone who asks if I'm from the General Assembly Church of the Firstborn, that Yes, I am from the church. But more importantly I am a part of the people of that church. Not the building or name of the church.
Before the people that assembly at this church had a name for it, they were just people that believed in God, they had no organization such as a church, they might have a building to hold meetings but it was just people that believed.
So why did they or do they believe? Why do you believe what you believe?
Something had to have happened in your life that brought you to a level that made you say now that's the truth.
l'll tell you how I came to believe.
I grew up in and around the "faith".
I went to church just like everyone else,
When I got sick, I was sick, my body fought of the sickness I got better. When I broke my leg in a football game me and my dad put the cast on ourselves, its not that hard to cast a simple break. Any doctor can tell you that. And actual the school wanted me to get it check with a Doctor, and I did. He cut off my cast took a look at it, said yep its broke and then said that we did a good job with the cast. Go home and put another one on.
Out of High school I left my home state and travelled to California, still going to a assembly there but got mix up with all sorts of bad people, Drugs, Alochol, Not very good things and really took a different approach on life. It wasn't until I was in my 20's that I got baptist in the church.
Why did I get baptized? I had seen things that made me believe, those things were outside of what I had seen at home, they were things that happened to me personally.
I once was injured at work, the next day my stomach was swelled up I couldn't keep food down very well I got very sick. I was sick for 5months. It went away.
Years later it came back with deductive reasoning I figured something must be wrong with my liver. The swelling was were my liver is. I was sick to the point that I couldn't work. I couldn't even drive anything. My brother had to fly in and drive me back to my home state. I weighed 152 before I was sick, before I was healed I weight 120.

Maybe you should have been listening to your schoolteachers instead of your "preacher". I put that in quotation marks to make it obvious to a learned person that your "preachers" are fake. They are liars and pull sentences from a great book of faith in order to set themselves on their own thrones. Your "stories" about illness are crap. If you had tetanus or diabetes or sepsis, you would be dead. And not because God wanted you dead. Because you were too stupid to let a person of the healing sciences give you the medicine to heal you. I don't care if you die from your own ignorance. That makes the rest of the population smarter. But to make decisions for others (children), is criminal and you should be prosecuted and sent to prison. You will have a lot of time in there to read and think. Maybe learn to spell and write like a human being.
There is a preacher's position open in Kentucky at the church where they handle vipers and drink poison. They say God will protect them. Well he was busy with something else a couple of Sunday's ago when Preacher John got bit. Died he did. Not because God wanted him dead, because he handled snakes that the rest of us were taught to be avoided. Because they can kill you. It's that simple.
A Member of the Church

United States

#1752 Mar 5, 2014
Tommy I didn't mention anything about preachers or handling snakes.

I didn't original believe that God could heal someone without modern medical intervention, sure I had heard story's about it happening.
But I never seen it myself.

I fell down a 35' dry well and didn't go to the hospital, I'm fine.
Just this last year I fell off a 30'-35' cliff and broke my hip, yes it hurt and I had a Sub-capital neck fracture. I can walk just fine to this day.

I never received medical attention to any of these events and I'm fine.

You can say it wasn't God, or it was.
This is the way I choose to live.
Tommy

Dallas, TX

#1754 Mar 7, 2014
maybe you need to watch where you're going.

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