Hill Will

Helen, GA

#223 Dec 10, 2012
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never understood the emphasis and focus on Salvation: we do not know where we were before birth, why the concern (fear of) where we will be after death. Birth and Death are the price of admission to God's Kingdom.
For ever who reads this, sorry for the bible thumping, but if you want to know GOD, you must learn HIS nature. I know of no other way to learn of him, than reading his word.

Yes, fundamentalist and evangelicals sell fire insurance. Pray a prayer and let's all go to heaven, but wait there's more...

According to the principle of Christ, the focus should be on abundant life (what happens between birth and Death): John 10:10 New International Version (NIV) 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Love is the evidence of salvation (you have entered into the Invisible Kingdom): "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren" (1 John 3:14-16).

Christ is our example: Jesus is our great example, our divine pattern. As He related to others, so must we. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus" (Philp. 2:5).

Principle of reciprocity in the Bible: "Therefore, accept one another, JUST AS Christ accepted you" (Rom. 15:7). The Lord has extended His grace to you; your obligation of love is to extend that same grace toward others.

The Torah taught the principle of reciprocity:

What is hateful to you don't do to another. This is the whole Torah;
the rest is just commentary. Rabbi Hillel (died c. 9 A.D.)
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Birth and Death are the price of admission to God's Kingdom.
We are told that the Kingdom of God is at hand, and we are told that the 11th Commandment is the Prime Directive - the principle of reciprocity, do unto others, love thy neighbor.


GRACE

Love ... Mercy ... Compassion ... Forgiveness. These are godly manifestations of grace. We experience them from our heavenly Father on a daily basis. Indeed, we would all be lost without them. Should our God withhold any of them from us, we would have no hope. There is not a one of us who does not appreciate more than words can ever express the reality of our gracious acceptance by our merciful Father.
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the core of any religion worth its salt, once reciprocity is understood then forgiveness of self and others is a natural outgrowth, it is there that the pathway to salvation (peace of mind, freedom from fear) lies.
This is an old message, Christ is one among many who have brought it to us.
It's about relationship a Father and His children

How many of us realize, however, that we are also expected to manifest these same divine qualities toward others ... especially toward our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? I also wonder how many of us realize that if we don't, then these outpourings of grace will be withheld from us. What far too many "church folk" seem to forget is that the nature of our relationship with the Father is in large part determined by the nature of our relationship with His children.
Hill Will

Helen, GA

#224 Dec 10, 2012
Local Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
I do seek Him....almost every waing moment! I too tend to agree w/BD somewhat about the Bible too. I recently had a personal experience where everything I "thought" about life, morals, principles...was turned on its head. It really was all an "illusion"! I won't bore anyone w/details, but just by asking older family members questions about things, I found out that the whole community "covered" up the "murder" of my grandmother. My poor uncle passed away believing that he was to blame for her death! It was 70 yrs ago & the only surviving sibling, my aunt, just recently found out the truth, b/c an "elder" in their church was suddenly hit w/a guilty conscience & asked for her on his death bed. She now wishes the guy had never let the cat out of the bag!! My point is that, how can any of us be sure that the Bible is the "infallible" word of God, especially since we now know that most of what is written was oral tradition passed down from family/tribe members?
Have you ever heard of astrotheology? I have been doing lots of research on it & it is very interesting..... I am continuing to seek Him, but as I study different religions throughout history, I see that most religions are very similar to "Christianity" & I have to ask the question.... If Christianity is the "only" way to heaven, then how are there so many different ways/beliefs, by a group of "Christians" as to which way is "right"?
Don't place your trust in people. They will always fail you. Look to the life of Christ; not other mere mortals.

Sorry, no experience with astrotheology. I may google it. I'm tired. I got to rest for my day job.

I need to look it up, but when Paul, author of most of what we consider the new testament, read the inscription to an "Unknown god" talked about the GOD that we should trust. I only trust one True God. Perhaps someone could help me out here. Hill Will is going to bed.
John

Helen, GA

#225 Dec 10, 2012
Acts 17:16-31 (ESV)

Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said,“What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said,“He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”--because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying,“May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.

So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said:“Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription,‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for

“‘In him we live and move and have our being’;

as even some of your own poets have said,

“‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#226 Dec 10, 2012
Hill Will wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't place your trust in people. They will always fail you. Look to the life of Christ; not other mere mortals.
Sorry, no experience with astrotheology. I may google it. I'm tired. I got to rest for my day job.
I need to look it up, but when Paul, author of most of what we consider the new testament, read the inscription to an "Unknown god" talked about the GOD that we should trust. I only trust one True God. Perhaps someone could help me out here. Hill Will is going to bed.
I hope you slept well. Here is a great verse on people and God: "Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the Lord." Psalm 144:15
blairsville devil

Wesley Chapel, FL

#227 Dec 11, 2012
This is especially for Hill Will d other bible thumpers.You know who you are.Thereare mor than 7illion people on this planet.About 2 billion of them are christian.According to the christians they are going to heaven when they die.The other 5 billion are going to hell.according to John 3:16 their creator this god loved the world that he sent his son to die for the sins that he created.he didn't love the people he createde because he killed them,nearly all.I wouldn't call this god a loving god but a murdering monster.He ,along with his good buddy the devil is going to kill the other 5 billion because they have enough intelligence to believe that he doesn't exist.I don't believe in any of the thousands of god that have existed ,through history,but Christians do.You people accept a god that never was and claim to love a murderer.Even though he never existed.You condone his evil acts,that in my opinion makes you no better than your immaginary god.Hill,anyone with a little knowledge of history should know how the christians have effected the advancement of mankind.You can google and learn.I don't know more simple way to express my opposition to a belief in any god than to say that you believers can have him because I consider myself to have higher moral principles.
Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#228 Dec 11, 2012
blairsville devil wrote:
This is especially for Hill Will d other bible thumpers.You know who you are.Thereare mor than 7illion people on this planet.About 2 billion of them are christian.According to the christians they are going to heaven when they die.The other 5 billion are going to hell.according to John 3:16 their creator this god loved the world that he sent his son to die for the sins that he created.he didn't love the people he createde because he killed them,nearly all.I wouldn't call this god a loving god but a murdering monster.He ,along with his good buddy the devil is going to kill the other 5 billion because they have enough intelligence to believe that he doesn't exist.I don't believe in any of the thousands of god that have existed ,through history,but Christians do.You people accept a god that never was and claim to love a murderer.Even though he never existed.You condone his evil acts,that in my opinion makes you no better than your immaginary god.Hill,anyone with a little knowledge of history should know how the christians have effected the advancement of mankind.You can google and learn.I don't know more simple way to express my opposition to a belief in any god than to say that you believers can have him because I consider myself to have higher moral principles.
Darn you.

Any good Pharisee will explain to you that:

Their version of God loves you, knows every hair on your head, wants more than anything that you be happy, prosperous, plentiful, and that you live a joyous life here on Earth and live in bliss for all eternity.

Unless of course you fail to fall on your face and worship and love him in the exact way and the exact form that the Pharisee's have devices is appropriate, including all political and moral dictates,(God favors tax breaks for hedge funds).

In which case He or She will demonstrate His or Her never ending personal, heart felt love by eternally dooming you to the burning fires of agonizing hell where the evil ones will gloat in your agony and where your pleasings for for death will go unanswered.

Some of the other 5 billion on Earth just can't buy their version of God.

But, who knows ......

Informed Opinion

Naples, FL

#229 Dec 11, 2012
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>Darn you.

Any good Pharisee will explain to you that:

Their version of God loves you, knows every hair on your head, wants more than anything that you be happy, prosperous, plentiful, and that you live a joyous life here on Earth and live in bliss for all eternity.

Unless of course you fail to fall on your face and worship and love him in the exact way and the exact form that the Pharisee's have devices is appropriate, including all political and moral dictates,(God favors tax breaks for hedge funds).

In which case He or She will demonstrate His or Her never ending personal, heart felt love by eternally dooming you to the burning fires of agonizing hell where the evil ones will gloat in your agony and where your pleasings for for death will go unanswered.

Some of the other 5 billion on Earth just can't buy their version of God.

But, who knows ......
By the way,

We had coffee yesterday with a can driver who is Hindu and worships Vishnu.

He told us that his kids were anxious for Christmas which caused the question whether or not Vishnu would punish his family for celebrating Christ's Birthday.

He was awestruck and asked why anyone would believe their God to be so "petty" and "insecure" that their God would be concerned that his kids experienced Christmas with their adopted countrymen.

My fundamentalist friend who asked the question quickly changes the subject.

Made me think all day.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#230 Dec 11, 2012
Hill Will wrote:
<quoted text> http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
...According to the principle of Christ, the focus should be on abundant life (what happens between birth and Death)...

Principle of reciprocity in the Bible: "Therefore, accept one another, JUST AS Christ accepted you" (Rom. 15:7). The Lord has extended His grace to you; your obligation of love is to extend that same grace toward others.

The Torah taught the principle of reciprocity:
What is hateful to you don't do to another. This is the whole Torah;
the rest is just commentary. Rabbi Hillel (died c. 9 A.D.)
Yes, exercise of Reciprocity is the source an abundant life, if you believe that the Kingdom of God is at hand, that is, this creation, this realm of reality, this time that we spend between birth and death is His Kingdom that is at hand, then what other path is there but Reciprocity.

Considering that Hillel was contemporary to Christ, and the Torah was the basis for the culture of the time, anything beyond reciprocity is just commentary.

John 13:34-35
New International Version (NIV)
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Mark 12:28-31
New International Version (NIV)
The Greatest Commandment

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him,“Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus,“is this:‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this:‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

This is a very old concept that predates the written record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity...

...This concept can be explained from the perspective of psychology, philosophy, sociology, and religion. Psychologically, it involves a person empathizing with others. Philosophically, it involves a person perceiving their neighbor as also "an I" or "self." Sociologically, this principle is applicable between individuals, between groups, and also between individuals and groups.(For example, a person living by this rule treats all people with consideration, not just members of his or her in-group). Religion is an integral part of the history of this concept.

As a concept, the Golden Rule has a history that long predates the term "Golden Rule", or "Golden law", as it was called from the 1670s. As a concept of "the ethic of reciprocity," it has its roots in a wide range of world cultures, and is a standard way that different cultures use to resolve conflicts. It has a long history, and a great number of prominent religious figures and philosophers have restated its reciprocal, "two-way" nature in various ways (not limited to the above forms)....

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#231 Dec 11, 2012
Why would anyone want to gather statistics on whether a person accepts the free gift of salvation and Heaven or the very costly trip to Hell? For anyone subscribing to that agenda daily why not just accknowledge Jesus
Christ and live as many live free and an eternal promise of Heaven. Why fight it and peddle your agenda, you are a loser for sure!
blairsville devil

Wesley Chapel, FL

#232 Dec 11, 2012
The southern states in this country are very sim iliar in many respects.Leading this country in all categories of crime ,child abuse ,wife abuse and all types of abuse,unwed mothers ,sexuality transmitted diseases,abortions,mental ilnesses,divorce,illegal drug use,sat scores and just about every other reason that effects society in a negative way.Most,that is with very few exceptions are so called red states.I am not the first and neither the last that has realized the effects of believing and expecting help from a devine being that has never shown his face has a direct relation to negative social conditions.Maybe my agenda is for the betterment of people,being responsible for their actions and not depending on something that has no scientific evidence that ever existed. I am not opposed to religious convictions,just the ignorance that is to often associated with it.
blairsville devil

Wesley Chapel, FL

#233 Dec 11, 2012
L.Wood There is no offer in the bible that is known as free salvation or free will.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#234 Dec 11, 2012
blairsville devil wrote:
L.Wood There is no offer in the bible that is known as free salvation or free will.
And God is no respector of people, He loves everyone the same. I am not concerned if you believe in God or not. I would hope you do not adhere to secular things and what you describe as intelligence. Yes sir, for those who care to accept Jesus Christ it is free for the asking. Yes, you do have free thinking and you do whatever you wish. I am sure you know right from wrong. You have been offered the Word of God. As I said before I love you as you are.
Cop

Blairsville, GA

#235 Dec 11, 2012
Look idots, I do drug infested women , I drink like a fish, lie like a rug and steal what I can.

BUT I'm fine because I give 10% each week to my church.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#236 Dec 11, 2012
Laurel Wood wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
And God is no respector of people, He loves everyone the same. I am not concerned if you believe in God or not. I would hope you do not adhere to secular things and what you describe as intelligence. Yes sir, for those who care to accept Jesus Christ it is free for the asking. Yes, you do have free thinking and you do whatever you wish. I am sure you know right from wrong. You have been offered the Word of God. As I said before I love you as you are.
Uhmmm, secular things like intelligence is questionable and not to be trusted.

Uhmmm, Salvation, the avoidance of Hell, the acceptance of Jesus is a matter of free will which is a secular thing (exercising intelligence).

Uhmmm, discerning right from wrong, a free offering of Salvation from the Word of God, it would obviously be wrong to reject such an offer.

Could such rejection, such wrong-headedness, be considered a sign of mental illness ?

Is a life practice of reciprocity any different than an acceptance of Christ ?

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#238 Dec 11, 2012
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhmmm, secular things like intelligence is questionable and not to be trusted.
Uhmmm, Salvation, the avoidance of Hell, the acceptance of Jesus is a matter of free will which is a secular thing (exercising intelligence).
Uhmmm, discerning right from wrong, a free offering of Salvation from the Word of God, it would obviously be wrong to reject such an offer.
Could such rejection, such wrong-headedness, be considered a sign of mental illness ?
Is a life practice of reciprocity any different than an acceptance of Christ ?
I am not sure what you mean by mental illness in regard to your post? Some people are very stubborn, some look to self for all the answers and cannot comprehend that they are made in God's image. How could you live and look around at nature and think it is man made. I have no criticism of anyone on the forum. It is a lively debate and fine to me especially at this time of year. A favorite line of mine is "Be still and know....." While in those quiet moments one feels that inner tugging of the heart and that is the time to know Him.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#240 Dec 11, 2012
Laurel Wood wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
I am not sure what you mean by mental illness in regard to your post?

Some people are very stubborn, some look to self for all the answers and cannot comprehend that they are made in God's image. How could you live and look around at nature and think it is man made. I have no criticism of anyone on the forum. It is a lively debate and fine to me especially at this time of year. A favorite line of mine is "Be still and know....." While in those quiet moments one feels that inner tugging of the heart and that is the time to know Him.
Rejection of a free gift could be considered a sign of mental illness by those who put a high regard on the free gift.

Looking to one's self for answers is a sign of stubbornness, some might say wrong-headedness, and surely a case of reliance on secular things like intellignece.

To be made in the image of God, would that be a literal reference or a metaphorical one, if the later how can that be, then it would smack of secular things like intellignece. Or maybe a reliance on intelligence is commendable if it's not taken too far, like when free gifts are readily accepted showing that the right decisions are made (when viewed by others).

How much simpler, and elegant, to realize that reciprocity is the root regardless of what names we currently see it as.
blairsville devil

Wesley Chapel, FL

#241 Dec 11, 2012
Some people enjoy christmas and others don't.Me being a realist I don't is because children are told there is a man living at the north pole that will bring something on the day the immaginary man jesus was born.I never could understand why parents have to lie to their children.The main reason I dislike christmas is because of the fictional story of this jesus chap being born.There are many mistakes associated ,the place of birth,when,but mostly the story of a star leading a few men to the location.This star was obviously close to the earth(actually it was believed that stars were only about the size of a Florida grapefruit and about 500 feet above the earth's surface).As a 12 year old boy I knew that if a star came close to the earth we would all be burned to a crisp is a big hurry.All these angels appearing around 25 Dcember is about as true as Tom and Henry visiting me last week.Both as false as a three dollar bill.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#242 Dec 11, 2012
Some people spend a great deal of time in Florida. Why not California or Hawaii two very sunny states. Some people put a great deal of time in rationalizing science and manmade things even recreational and apparently from an early age.

I know our world was created by God because man would have messed it up bigtime. For instance mountains would have been made of plastic, we all know how that holds up.

I see nothing wrong in parents allowing their children to believe in Santa. We all know its fun until you see dad putting together your dollhouse or bike. Through the eyes of children nature as well as Santa type things are wonderful. If we seek God with humbleness and childlike approach it is so easy to believe and accept Him.

You should not let Tom and Henry visit you again. I hope they did not confuse you.
oops

Dawsonville, GA

#243 Dec 11, 2012
Cop wrote:
Look idots, I do drug infested women , I drink like a fish, lie like a rug and steal what I can.
BUT I'm fine because I give 10% each week to my church.
Matthew 5:23-24

New International Version (NIV)


23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
oops

Dawsonville, GA

#244 Dec 11, 2012
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Rejection of a free gift could be considered a sign of mental illness by those who put a high regard on the free gift.
Looking to one's self for answers is a sign of stubbornness, some might say wrong-headedness, and surely a case of reliance on secular things like intellignece.
To be made in the image of God, would that be a literal reference or a metaphorical one, if the later how can that be, then it would smack of secular things like intellignece. Or maybe a reliance on intelligence is commendable if it's not taken too far, like when free gifts are readily accepted showing that the right decisions are made (when viewed by others).
How much simpler, and elegant, to realize that reciprocity is the root regardless of what names we currently see it as.
Matthew 11:25-30

New International Version (NIV)


The Father Revealed in the Son

25 At that time Jesus said,“I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

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