Shiloh Baptist members sue church leaders

A group of members at Shiloh Baptist Church in York are suing the church pastor and three church leaders, saying they violated church bylaws in borrowing $635,000 to purchase a church on the west side of the city. Full Story
Thursday Night

York, PA

#447 Aug 1, 2009
This is interesting! One has always maintained that they did not sign anything on numerous occassions even on Thursday night. So in other words, you can't get me but the other ones have just been thrown under the bus. They will be left to answer all the questions and no doubt found guilty. Oh this is interesting!
viewer

Stewartstown, PA

#448 Aug 1, 2009
On Thursday, how many misrepresentations did you count? Let's start with the salary and everything that was left out of it because you are expected not to have common sense. FYI that was a base salary that is reported to the IRS don't get it twisted. She gets a monthly housing allowance, she has a PPO for insurance, she gets travel allowance, she has a pension, social security and much more. The picture is not as bleak as was painted on Thursday.
criteria

Stewartstown, PA

#449 Aug 1, 2009
Qualifications for Appointed Leadership at Shiloh

1. Poor reading skills.
2. Good Listening Skills (Do as I Say without questioning anything.
3. Be able to play Simon Says except change Simon's name.
4. Have no knowledge about Shiloh.
5. Be easily manipulated.

shiloh

Stewartstown, PA

#450 Aug 1, 2009
Shiloh has trustees appointed by Jazz that bounce checks, lose there homes more than once, can't read and they are over the money. I will tell you something that has never happened in the 128 years of Shiloh's history, they have never been broke until this poor unthoughtful decision to purchase Locust Street was made. Now they are in such a hole that the only way she sees out is to sell Shiloh at 629 S. Pershing. You are going to have a knock down drag out fight.
York

Stewartstown, PA

#451 Aug 1, 2009
Tell me why when Rev. Curtis was the Pastor at Shiloh who truly had 1000 members in the pews not just on the books week after week was Pershing Ave large enough for his ministries? Are you trying to say you are better than him?
York

Stewartstown, PA

#452 Aug 1, 2009
viewer wrote:
On Thursday, how many misrepresentations did you count? Let's start with the salary and everything that was left out of it because you are expected not to have common sense. FYI that was a base salary that is reported to the IRS don't get it twisted. She gets a monthly housing allowance, she has a PPO for insurance, she gets travel allowance, she has a pension, social security and much more. The picture is not as bleak as was painted on Thursday.
She avoided answering any pertinent questions thinking somebody is dumb. Only slow people are her leaders
resolution

Stewartstown, PA

#453 Aug 1, 2009
Resolution to the Pain wrote:
<quoted text>
So doesn't it stand to reason that everyone has suffered much pain here. Those ladies, who are members of this church, have been ostracized by other members and have been referred to as "demons" and "haters" just because they just want a clear understanding of what is happening with the church. By the way, haters want the one they are "hating on" to fail. My thought is that if these ladies wanted the leaders of the church to fail then why did they ask for an open meeting so many times to get things out within the church so that the church could move on with complete honesty and transparency. What would have been the problem with that? How is that tearing someone down and how is that being a "hater" or a "demon"? In fact, it is actually spiritually edifying because everyone involved gets to heal from the truth--together.
Really, this can still be resolved. Does anyone know if the two sides are willing to settle this out of court? Can anyone offer some kind of resolution because the Word of God asks us to settle disputes before it goes to court? I am certain there is some resolution to this thing. How about someone offer a resolution instead of just more idle talk (print)?
Did you see your pastor try to resolve anything. She tried to monopolize the floor because she didn't want anyone to talk. She had a mike and was very selective about giving the mike to people. If you are on the up an up it wouldn't be an issue listing to someone else. Remember there is always 2 sides to a story and then there is the truth which she seems very afraid of. To me it was just another attempt to continue to maniulate
viewer

Stewartstown, PA

#454 Aug 1, 2009
I agree add more names wrote:
Yes indeed...and I don't believe the information about the loan...that is just not how it works. Something else is going on here...I'm going to start snooping too...there is a Right to Know law...sure is...
She lead you to believe that if there was going to be a foreclosure it would have happened by July 26th. Newsflash, If you know anything you should know it could possibly take up 2 years to actually foreclose. Misleading information given by her again to gain your trust. I feel so sorry for the clueless people.
CONTRADICTIONS

York, PA

#455 Aug 2, 2009
1.No benefits
2.Health insurance benefits, housing allowance, special gifts at celebrations (LATEST --NON APPROVED CHURCH BODY APPROVED--$7000), etc.
3.Have knowledge of them and will follow the constitution and bylaws
4.Did not know the constitution and bylaws were supposed to be followed (i.e. given out)
5.Church closed for worship for the summer only
6.Church not reopening for worship services at all
Anymore you can think of?
QALS

York, PA

#456 Aug 2, 2009
criteria wrote:
Qualifications for Appointed Leadership at Shiloh
1. Poor reading skills.
2. Good Listening Skills (Do as I Say without questioning anything.
3. Be able to play Simon Says except change Simon's name.
4. Have no knowledge about Shiloh.
5. Be easily manipulated.
Add two more to the list--

*Able to play Mother May I
*Not Possess the Gift of Discernment
Shilohs C and B

York, PA

#457 Aug 2, 2009
Please read the document in its entirety. When the administration and leadership reads it, they only read portions of it when it fits them.
We live in the USA and we have a US Constitution and Bill of Rights that our citizens and government must abide by all parts. We have the freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, and other freedoms stated in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights—which we are given these rights, altogether. We don’t have one of these rights one at a time. We have all of them, altogether, all the time. When the legislative, judicial and executive powers make any decisions, those decisions are made with full knowledge of each other powers and they do not overwrite either one.
I say all this to say that our church’s constitution and bylaws cannot be taken out of context, using only parts of it when and where it suits the administration/leadership. It is a legal and binding document.
Again, I beg of you to actually read Shiloh’s Constitution and By-laws and you will know for yourself what has been done right and what has been done wrong ( i.e. Elected vs. Appointed Leaders, Removal of Officers, Approval of Expenditures, Deacons vs. Trustees over Financial Matters, Audit, etc.). It seems to me that if you don’t know the contents of the document, you won’t be able to tell either way especially when the administration/leadership only tells you what they want you to know. Read the document in its entirety!
Tired Of The Lies

Camp Hill, PA

#458 Aug 2, 2009
Read your history people. How did the slave master keep his flock in the dark and thus maintain control? He did not allow them to "READ".

At Thursday's church meeting, it was noted by Pastor Jazz that everyone, upon entry into the meeting, should have recieved a copy of the church's Constitution and By-Laws. Pastor Jazz stated that page 29 of the Constitution and By-Laws stated, the church is to be GOVERNED by the Holy Bible. This, of course, resulted in resounding applause from many of Pastor Jazz's supporters. Had those supporters not just taken her word (again), but "READ" the By-Laws for themselves, they would have found Pastor Jazz (I'll be kind), made a "misleading" statement. In truth, the By-Laws, page 29, states: "In order to avoid confusion and disorder in transacting church business, the Holy Bible shall be used as the basic authority" to assure orderly CONDUCT. Page 29 further states that "This Constitution and By-Laws shall GOVERN each member and all activities of this church."

Please, please, please take the time to READ your Constitution and By-Laws. You will find Pastor Jazz and her illegally appointed leaders are not in compliance. Page 29 again: "Any discrepancies between the Policies and Procedures notebook and the Constitution and By-Laws shall be settled by the Constitution and By-Laws taking precedence."

It has been stated that our Constitution and By-Laws were drawn up in 1983 and are perhaps outdated. The Constitution of the United States was drawn up well over 200 years ago and guess what...it still applies. Our forefathers drew up our Constitution and By-Laws to ensure the stability of the church, to avoid confusion and disorder, and guarantee the preservation of Shiloh Baptist Church. Please do not take what our forefathers entrusted to us lightly. Do not be dictated to. READ and question for yourselves.
Top Ten Lies List

Camp Hill, PA

#459 Aug 2, 2009
Misleading, half statements, or down-right lies; you decide:

Rev Jazz says:

1. Shiloh Church in it's 128 year history has never been audited.(not even during the Rev. Easley era???)

2. The church asked to meet with the 10 ladies but the 10 ladies refused.(The ladies wanted a PUBLIC meeting, not a private one as Rev. Jazz wanted. Rev. Jazz turned down 4 requests for a PUBLIC meeting with the church congregation).

3. The lawsuit says she signed for the $600,000 loan.(The lawsuit does not implicate Rev. Jazz in the signing of the loan, rather Deacon Jeff Rice and Deacon/Trustee William Wormley).

4. Shiloh will be re-open in September.(Don't hold your breath. September will speak for itself).

5. Several persons were chosen to send letters to requesting them to serve on the Constitution and By-Laws committee.(Did you get a request? How many on that committee are Rev. Jazz supporters?)

6. Pastor's salary was $30,000 for 4 years.(Are we stupid....do the math. The adminstrative asst. who works part-time - perhaps 20 hours per week, makes $15,000. If she were to work 40 hrs/wk she would make $30,000....same as the Pastor!)

7. All the deacons of Shiloh signed for the $600,000 loan.(Ask the only 3 ligitamate deacons on the board. At least one has stated he did not sign. Copies of signatures are public record. Copies show 3 signatures, one of which is now deceased).

8. She never sat any officials of the church down without church approval.(Only those who disagreed with her philosophy).

9. The Constitution and By-Laws says the church is governed by the Holy Bible.(Page 29 Article XVII-Governing Authority: The Constitution and By-Laws shall govern each member and all activities of the church).

Shall we try for 10?

10. No collateral was needed to purchase West Locust St.(Public records at the Courthouse show that a lein was placed on Shiloh Baptist Church Pershing Ave. for $600,000).

All the above statements, except #10, were made by Rev. Jasmin Sculark, pastor of Shiloh Baptist Church, in the short span of a two hour meeting on Thursday, July 20, 2009. Number 10 was stated by her at a previous meeting. You decide if you want such a person to lead our congregation.
Bravo

York, PA

#460 Aug 2, 2009
Top Ten Lies List wrote:
Misleading, half statements, or down-right lies; you decide:
Rev Jazz says:
1. Shiloh Church in it's 128 year history has never been audited.(not even during the Rev. Easley era???)
2. The church asked to meet with the 10 ladies but the 10 ladies refused.(The ladies wanted a PUBLIC meeting, not a private one as Rev. Jazz wanted. Rev. Jazz turned down 4 requests for a PUBLIC meeting with the church congregation).
3. The lawsuit says she signed for the $600,000 loan.(The lawsuit does not implicate Rev. Jazz in the signing of the loan, rather Deacon Jeff Rice and Deacon/Trustee William Wormley).
4. Shiloh will be re-open in September.(Don't hold your breath. September will speak for itself).
5. Several persons were chosen to send letters to requesting them to serve on the Constitution and By-Laws committee.(Did you get a request? How many on that committee are Rev. Jazz supporters?)
6. Pastor's salary was $30,000 for 4 years.(Are we stupid....do the math. The adminstrative asst. who works part-time - perhaps 20 hours per week, makes $15,000. If she were to work 40 hrs/wk she would make $30,000....same as the Pastor!)
7. All the deacons of Shiloh signed for the $600,000 loan.(Ask the only 3 ligitamate deacons on the board. At least one has stated he did not sign. Copies of signatures are public record. Copies show 3 signatures, one of which is now deceased).
8. She never sat any officials of the church down without church approval.(Only those who disagreed with her philosophy).
9. The Constitution and By-Laws says the church is governed by the Holy Bible.(Page 29 Article XVII-Governing Authority: The Constitution and By-Laws shall govern each member and all activities of the church).
Shall we try for 10?
10. No collateral was needed to purchase West Locust St.(Public records at the Courthouse show that a lein was placed on Shiloh Baptist Church Pershing Ave. for $600,000).
All the above statements, except #10, were made by Rev. Jasmin Sculark, pastor of Shiloh Baptist Church, in the short span of a two hour meeting on Thursday, July 20, 2009. Number 10 was stated by her at a previous meeting. You decide if you want such a person to lead our congregation.
I couldn't have said it better myself...thank you...I can just copy and paste this and pass it out at church next week...but then again, she's probably already told them in one of their secret meetings not to read anything else unless she passes it out.
Question

Stewartstown, PA

#461 Aug 2, 2009
Why is the Administrative Assistant also a trustee?

If two trustees have served there time according to Jazz, why is the administrative Assistant still a trustee? She signs checks, she writes minutes and she certainly has served her time.

Seems like a conflict of interest to me. What do you think? Rules according to Jazz
Concerned

Stewartstown, PA

#462 Aug 2, 2009
People, are you aware they have been in 740 W. Locust Street 2 years and still do not have an occupancy permit. Smart right?
member

Stewartstown, PA

#463 Aug 2, 2009
York wrote:
Tell me why when Rev. Curtis was the Pastor at Shiloh who truly had 1000 members in the pews not just on the books week after week was Pershing Ave large enough for his ministries? Are you trying to say you are better than him?
Now that is a joke.
ask

Philadelphia, PA

#464 Aug 3, 2009
why is this women still allowed to PREACH?
JEAH

York, PA

#465 Aug 3, 2009
Concerned wrote:
People, are you aware they have been in 740 W. Locust Street 2 years and still do not have an occupancy permit. Smart right?
This statement is accurate but misleading. What does this have to do with the court case?
JEAH

York, PA

#466 Aug 3, 2009
ask wrote:
why is this women still allowed to PREACH?
Because the by-laws didn't call her to be a pastor, God did. And the by-laws can't can't take that from her. Why she wasn't voted out (since the church is a democracy and not a theocracy) is beyond me.

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