Clashes in rival towns kill 22 in wes...

Clashes in rival towns kill 22 in western Libya

There are 37 comments on the KNDU story from Apr 3, 2012, titled Clashes in rival towns kill 22 in western Libya. In it, KNDU reports that:

Militias from rival towns in western Libya battled each other with tanks and artillery on Tuesday in fierce fighting that killed at least 22 people, local officials said.

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Rides

United States

#1 Apr 3, 2012
upgraded democracy! Libyan were safe under which regime? This is American style democracy( long civil) like Afghan and Iraq. Now enjoy the taste of democracy.
Observer

Villeneuve-loubet, France

#2 Apr 3, 2012
Rides wrote:
upgraded democracy! Libyan were safe under which regime? This is American style democracy( long civil) like Afghan and Iraq. Now enjoy the taste of democracy.
How did you know that Libya was safe and had no such incidents? It simply had no chance to get to front pages: gaddafi was know to pay a lot to news firms , and many news firms had no interest in Libyan affairs in the first place. Read the history of world revolutions, major changes and uprisings. In Libya we were expecting even worse but, thank God it turned out a lot better. A price has to be paid for a major change: 42years of gaddafi game of inducing clashes between different areas cannot be deleted in few months but it will be.
true

Australia

#3 Apr 3, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
How did you know that Libya was safe and had no such incidents? It simply had no chance to get to front pages: gaddafi was know to pay a lot to news firms , and many news firms had no interest in Libyan affairs in the first place. Read the history of world revolutions, major changes and uprisings. In Libya we were expecting even worse but, thank God it turned out a lot better. A price has to be paid for a major change: 42years of gaddafi game of inducing clashes between different areas cannot be deleted in few months but it will be.
Yes a price had to be paid and that price is,no water,electricity,stability is a dream that is only known by those who were born pre 2011 and the only good news is 1.5 mil barrels of oil pumping out which keeps my running cost down.
Observer

Lampertheim, France

#4 Apr 4, 2012
true wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes a price had to be paid and that price is,no water,electricity,stability is a dream that is only known by those who were born pre 2011 and the only good news is 1.5 mil barrels of oil pumping out which keeps my running cost down.
I just wonder why on earth you are so insisting on you black vision of the situation. I' m not saying that the situation is 100 Per cent normal but, Libyans are a lot more optimistic than you and others like you on the forum. You are no longer a neutral analyst seeing things only through your black lenses. We,Libyansa can overcome the challenges , we had a dream and it is coming through though, slowly despite your pessimistic view.
kiwi

Frenstat, Czech Republic

#5 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
I just wonder why on earth you are so insisting on you black vision of the situation. I' m not saying that the situation is 100 Per cent normal but, Libyans are a lot more optimistic than you and others like you on the forum. You are no longer a neutral analyst seeing things only through your black lenses. We,Libyansa can overcome the challenges , we had a dream and it is coming through though, slowly despite your pessimistic view.
I wonder where your optimism comes from. Libyan authorities yesterday banned all flights from Libya to EU till this fall however not listed on black list by EU.
Observer

Brégnier-cordon, France

#6 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder where your optimism comes from. Libyan authorities yesterday banned all flights from Libya to EU till this fall however not listed on black list by EU.
Even if that is true, that does not mean a collapse of a country. Still optimistic when you see the overall picture but not an isolated incident or so. We are seeing things through different type of lenses
Observer

Lampertheim, France

#7 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder where your optimism comes from. Libyan authorities yesterday banned all flights from Libya to EU till this fall however not listed on black list by EU.
I'm trying to find a source to your comments about banning all flights from Libya to Europe but could not find any such bans in any of news outlets!
true

Australia

#8 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if that is true, that does not mean a collapse of a country. Still optimistic when you see the overall picture but not an isolated incident or so. We are seeing things through different type of lenses
your lenses is cracked or broken.isolated incidents is an understatement on a grand scale.blacks in zoo's being fed flags seems rather unhealthy in reconciliation terms but maybe that's how things always were and a strong leader like ghaddafi kept the violence between groups to a tolerable minimum.the oilfields should be protected at all cost to help the Libyan people emerge from this terrible carnage.

Since: Jul 11

Berlin, Germany

#9 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder where your optimism comes from. Libyan authorities yesterday banned all flights from Libya to EU till this fall however not listed on black list by EU.
The same could be asked of your (persistent) pessimism. Quite honestly, you often give the impression of wanting to hear bad news if only to see your opinion that the whole uprising was a bad idea vindicated.

As very many posters on Topix in the past months have already pointed out (especially to you), revolutions or always bumpy affairs, political transition is never smooth. How long did it take your country to stabilize after overthrowing the communist regime? I'll remind you, it took three years. And even then you had to accept your country dividing into Slovakia and the Czech Republic.

Sure there are bad things happening in Libya right now, there are set backs and a whole lot of other things. But there are also really very good things happening. It's just that bad news usually makes the headlines more often than good news.

The main thing is that the general direction is promising. Almost full oil revenues are coming in again, and that far earlier than expected, firms are investing heavily in the country again (Russian, Chinese and Western), most hotels have opened up for business, there are even some tourists wanting to see the enormous amounts of old Roman ruins, the schools, cleaned of Gaddhafi's muck, are open again, elections are being prepared, a constitution is being written, a new national army being formed, a police force is already working, all things that show a country slowly but surely getting on its feet again. But it's these positive things you seem to choose to ignore. Because they simply don't fit into your agenda maybe? Take a heart for the Libyan people and maybe be a bit more supportive of there efforts.
Observer

Lampertheim, France

#10 Apr 4, 2012
true wrote:
<quoted text>
your lenses is cracked or broken.isolated incidents is an understatement on a grand scale.blacks in zoo's being fed flags seems rather unhealthy in reconciliation terms but maybe that's how things always were and a strong leader like ghaddafi kept the violence between groups to a tolerable minimum.the oilfields should be protected at all cost to help the Libyan people emerge from this terrible carnage.
Is feeding green flags to blacks an everyday business. Were you familiar with the circumstances that led to that action? I'm not. Gaddafi enriched and encouraged such violence between towns and group but to a point where he could control it...this is the result of his bad deeds.
Janos

Szolnok, Hungary

#11 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm trying to find a source to your comments about banning all flights from Libya to Europe but could not find any such bans in any of news outlets!
Just type in "Libyan airlines banned".
kiwi

Frenstat, Czech Republic

#12 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm trying to find a source to your comments about banning all flights from Libya to Europe but could not find any such bans in any of news outlets!
http://www.europolitics.info/sectorial-polici...
kiwi

Frenstat, Czech Republic

#13 Apr 4, 2012
Ditto Dog wrote:
<quoted text>
...Take a heart for the Libyan people and maybe be a bit more supportive of there efforts.
I´d really like to take a heart for Libyan people but I will never support criminal murders. I am not buying a response from the prime minister Abdurrahim El-Kib to a LFJL, that violations should be taken “in context.”
Call it revolution or freedom fight or whatever you want. Murder is murder no matter if we speak about "collater losts" of NATO bombers or "killing" of the late dictator.
kiwi

Frenstat, Czech Republic

#14 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if that is true, that does not mean a collapse of a country. Still optimistic when you see the overall picture but not an isolated incident or so. We are seeing things through different type of lenses
You call what´s going on in Zuara/AL-Jmail an isolated incident. Could you explain me then this? "Sufyan (Zuara), who said that the town’s hospital was full, confirmed that forces had arrived but were not intervening. He accused the government and others of not helping. Sabratha, he said, had stopped sending weapons.“Everyone has abandoned us”....and: "Ali (an Interior minister) said that a shipment of medical aid from Zuarans in the capital would be sent to Zuara by boat from Tripoli on Wednesday because it was not being allowed through at Sabratha."
Observer

Brégnier-cordon, France

#15 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
<quoted text>
I´d really like to take a heart for Libyan people but I will never support criminal murders. I am not buying a response from the prime minister Abdurrahim El-Kib to a LFJL, that violations should be taken “in context.”
Call it revolution or freedom fight or whatever you want. Murder is murder no matter if we speak about "collater losts" of NATO bombers or "killing" of the late dictator.
Only that!...what about gaddafi forces killing innocent unarmed people during the uprising. No one should support criminals but, we have to agree on few definitions so to have a common ground when referring to incidences.
Observer

Brégnier-cordon, France

#16 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
This was 10 days ago when EU banned Libyan Airlines from landing in Europe. This was an EU decision not Libyan authority decision and European carriers are not affected. Your comments were not clear on that.
Observer

Brégnier-cordon, France

#17 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
<quoted text>
You call what´s going on in Zuara/AL-Jmail an isolated incident. Could you explain me then this? "Sufyan (Zuara), who said that the town’s hospital was full, confirmed that forces had arrived but were not intervening. He accused the government and others of not helping. Sabratha, he said, had stopped sending weapons.“Everyone has abandoned us”....and: "Ali (an Interior minister) said that a shipment of medical aid from Zuarans in the capital would be sent to Zuara by boat from Tripoli on Wednesday because it was not being allowed through at Sabratha."
I'm away for few days and have been following that on national press websites and did not come across such things, may be. What I meant by isolated incidents is that these acts are not in all and very place in the country. Each one is different from the other as far as the causes and roots of the problem. We have seen such incidents last 3-4 months but all subsided and truce had been worked out. 6 months and more of such incidents and the country is still standing and it will
kiwi

Frenstat, Czech Republic

#18 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
This was 10 days ago when EU banned Libyan Airlines from landing in Europe. This was an EU decision not Libyan authority decision and European carriers are not affected. Your comments were not clear on that.
No.
..Libyan authorities decided to adopt strong measures applicable to all air carriers licensed in Libya, which exclude them from flying into the EU until at least November 2012...
It wasn´t EU decision. Libyan airlines are not at the official black list.

Since: Jul 11

Berlin, Germany

#19 Apr 4, 2012
kiwi wrote:
<quoted text>
I´d really like to take a heart for Libyan people but I will never support criminal murders... I am not buying a response from the prime minister Abdurrahim El-Kib to a LFJL, that violations should be taken “in context.”
Call it revolution or freedom fight or whatever you want. Murder is murder no matter if we speak about "collater losts" of NATO bombers or "killing" of the late dictator.
I'd take you seriously if you'd have just once expressed the same for the actions of Gaddhafi and his thugs during his 42 year rule.

Not one comment from you in the past ten months can be attributed to you lamenting his murders, corrupt governance and advocation of terrorism. God knows there is enough to point to. His spend thrift personal habits squandering billions of his people's money on personal whims. His habit of satisfying his bestial sexual appetite by forcing himself onto young women, some times five a day. Many of these girls had to go straight to hospital after being in bed with him! His spoilt and arrogant children's extremely expensive lifestyles, all paid for by the Libyan people, many of them poor and desperate to feed their families. Their often criminal and mafiaesque escapades in Libya and abroad.

The NTC is not perfect, but, try as you might, you will not be able to pin anything like that onto them.
kiwi

Frenstat, Czech Republic

#20 Apr 4, 2012
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm away for few days and have been following that on national press websites and did not come across such things, may be. What I meant by isolated incidents is that these acts are not in all and very place in the country. Each one is different from the other as far as the causes and roots of the problem. We have seen such incidents last 3-4 months but all subsided and truce had been worked out. 6 months and more of such incidents and the country is still standing and it will
What I am buying from this article is not an isolated problem. It is a wave of deep roots disappointment of non Arab Libyans. Tawergha, Ubari, Kufra, Murzuq, Sabha to name only a few. Now Zuara (Berbers) against Al-Jmail with Sabratha actively siding Arabs.

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