Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,732

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Lerxst

Springboro, OH

#30805 Feb 28, 2014
Bravo wrote:
Well Doug, that was a good marketing ploy last night. You showed those in attendance at the board meeting that you can make large bulletins and not only mailers and yard signs. Do you pay for your labor and materials out of your profits or do you charge it to marketing?
As for the coaches, since you are so quick to state that they are nothing but thieves, how much did they typically steal per season, and how much of their time was given? Sounds reasonable to me that the coaches are paid something for their time - unless you think that all coaches should be strictly volunteer - in which case there is no sense in continuing the conversation.
I agree that it is reasonable for coaches to be paid in these circumstances. However, if that's going to be the case then make it transparent. Specify the salary/payment/stipend, whatever they want to call it. Effectively writing a blank check is an invitation for questions. And that's exactly where we find ourselves. Given the recent events regarding Harves it any wonder someone came along to question the whole operation? In my view it was incredibly bad judgment to allow personal bank accounts be used here. And even worse judgment for the individuals involved to have not tracked and recorded every single dollar spent.
yin yang

Springboro, OH

#30806 Feb 28, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
But spending $9,000 + on MLA for 3 months was a deal we should have taken?
At least this board is bringing something to the table MUCH cheaper (per month) and we actually get consultants who HAVE experience with schools.
MSA campaigned on rejoining OSBA. They weren't 'hiding' anything. Despite that (or maybe because of that) they won the election.
GET OVER IT.
Why support OSBLC?

"As many of you may know, there is already an Ohio organization that assists school board members with the issues that they face on a daily basis. The OSBA has been in Ohio for almost 60 years and they have grown enormously. So, why do we need another school board organization? Does the word monopoly mean anything to you? Does the word philosophy mean anything to you? Well to us, the OSBA currently has exclusive access to our elected school boards across Ohio. In many cases, this lone voice for board members to turn to for advice and information is slanted toward a philosophy that our organization would disagree with. Therefore, we feel there should be another voice available to board members who are frustrated with the answers they receive from OSBA. In future newsletters, we will highlight a few differences between our two organizations and let you decide which one lines up closer to how you see education in Ohio. OSBA has a 60 year head start, but we are confident that you will understand why OSBLC is needed now more than ever as you compare our views on many of the topics that will shape our kids future."

"The Ohio Education Association, Ohio's largest teachers union, has named the Ohio School Boards Leadership Council (OSBLC) to its "enemies" list. In a recent state-wide conference OEA offers sessions to help teachers identify their enemies and discussed how to "deal" with them."

(Commentary : The OEA is afraid of OSBLC? Generally, fear is a motivator for the cowardly.)

http://osblc.org/

"OUR PROGRESS AS A NATION CAN BE NO SWIFTER THAN OUR PROGRESS IN EDUCATION. THE HUMAN MIND IS OUR FUNDAMENTAL RESOURCE."

President John F. Kennedy (D)
Special Message to the Congress on Education
February 20, 1961
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/...

Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30807 Feb 28, 2014
Bravo wrote:
Well Doug, that was a good marketing ploy last night. You showed those in attendance at the board meeting that you can make large bulletins and not only mailers and yard signs. Do you pay for your labor and materials out of your profits or do you charge it to marketing?
As for the coaches, since you are so quick to state that they are nothing but thieves, how much did they typically steal per season, and how much of their time was given? Sounds reasonable to me that the coaches are paid something for their time - unless you think that all coaches should be strictly volunteer - in which case there is no sense in continuing the conversation.
As for looking to other schools to see what they do - it is done all of the time. In fact recently (within the last two weeks), the Springboro high school leadership asked parents to look at a policy at surrounding schools so that they can shape their own policy. Businesses do it all the time, they look at competitors website designs, marketing strategies, subcontractor usage, etc. to help shape their own corporation. In many instances you would be stupid not to look at what has been done in the past and build on it or tweek the ideas rather than start from scratch.
And I was afraid it would not be large enough to be seen, thank you for assuaging that concern.

My point in the matter is that if everything is hunky dory why are so many people worried about appearances? Why did Mr. Holtrey go to great lengths to deny the existence of the coaches running the camps for profit? Mr. Holtrey specifically claims in his interview with a friendly reporter from the Dayton Daily News:

Q – What about the summer camp accusation?

A - Somebody made an accusation to the state auditor’s office that coaches were running camps (and keeping profits) and that was fraudulent.(The school board) won’t even share with you what the accusation was.… It was not an investigation. They were following up on an accusation that in my view was a flagrant accusation with the intent of causing problems that there was NEVER ANY TRUTH TO.

Mr. Holtrey's response to the state auditor is exactly the opposite according to the State Audit report dated December 12, 2013.

State Auditor Report
Springboro Community City School District
December 12, 2013

"1. Springboro Boys Basketball Camps
A bank account was maintained by Troy Holtrey, the former Springboro High School head basketball coach and former ATHLETIC DIRECTOR who operated the camp. Mr. Holtrey indicated that he had been operating camps for approximately 20 years. He believes he opened the account in 2004/05 per the request of the Superintendent. Prior to operating his own bank account the camps financial activity was accounted for by the Springboro Boosters. Mr. Holtrey indicated that after he had paid for all of the expenses (camp workers, t- shirts, basketballs, etc.) related to the camp, he considered any funds remaining from the fees he collected to be his stipend.

We can look at all of the other people we wish, the point of the matter is we choose how to act based upon our own sets of principles, ethics, morals, and values we hold in this community.

The question begs itself are we for letting the children have the first crack at scarce resources or the coaches?

I say give it to the children first.
Bravo

Dayton, OH

#30808 Feb 28, 2014
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
And I was afraid it would not be large enough to be seen, thank you for assuaging that concern.
My point in the matter is that if everything is hunky dory why are so many people worried about appearances? Why did Mr. Holtrey go to great lengths to deny the existence of the coaches running the camps for profit? Mr. Holtrey specifically claims in his interview with a friendly reporter from the Dayton Daily News:
Q – What about the summer camp accusation?
A - Somebody made an accusation to the state auditor’s office that coaches were running camps (and keeping profits) and that was fraudulent.(The school board) won’t even share with you what the accusation was.… It was not an investigation. They were following up on an accusation that in my view was a flagrant accusation with the intent of causing problems that there was NEVER ANY TRUTH TO.
Mr. Holtrey's response to the state auditor is exactly the opposite according to the State Audit report dated December 12, 2013.
State Auditor Report
Springboro Community City School District
December 12, 2013
"1. Springboro Boys Basketball Camps
A bank account was maintained by Troy Holtrey, the former Springboro High School head basketball coach and former ATHLETIC DIRECTOR who operated the camp. Mr. Holtrey indicated that he had been operating camps for approximately 20 years. He believes he opened the account in 2004/05 per the request of the Superintendent. Prior to operating his own bank account the camps financial activity was accounted for by the Springboro Boosters. Mr. Holtrey indicated that after he had paid for all of the expenses (camp workers, t- shirts, basketballs, etc.) related to the camp, he considered any funds remaining from the fees he collected to be his stipend.
We can look at all of the other people we wish, the point of the matter is we choose how to act based upon our own sets of principles, ethics, morals, and values we hold in this community.
The question begs itself are we for letting the children have the first crack at scarce resources or the coaches?
I say give it to the children first.
No, I don't think that the question is whether to give it to the coaches or give it to the children. What this district has been concerned with is do they (the district) get there share. As the new policy states, 20% of the funds will go to the district - not sure exactly how that money will be used yet, but it may or may not go directly to the children. The rest will go to the coaches. So the only difference I see from the way it has been done for over 10 years is that the district now gets there share. I don't have a problem with that - maybe it should have been that way a long time ago. But for some reason, someone thought that the school property belonged to the students and that anytime they were using it (either during the camps or for the actual sports) they would not be charged. I think it is fair to say, the majority of kids that go to the camps are members of this community and their parents are already paying their taxes to pay for the buildings/fields/courts.

Still not sure why you feel coaches shouldn't receive any compensation for running the camps unless you feel that the camps are too expensive. The facts still remain, parents paid for a service - to have their child learn more about a sport during these camps, and those services were rendered.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#30810 Feb 28, 2014
John wrote:
<quoted text>.
Parise/Ebenezer....obviously, the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come has not yet visited you.
which ghoul are you...Jobe, or Johantges ?... both ugly..
Contrariwise

Springboro, OH

#30811 Feb 28, 2014
Bravo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't think that the question is whether to give it to the coaches or give it to the children. What this district has been concerned with is do they (the district) get there share. As the new policy states, 20% of the funds will go to the district - not sure exactly how that money will be used yet, but it may or may not go directly to the children. The rest will go to the coaches. So the only difference I see from the way it has been done for over 10 years is that the district now gets there share. I don't have a problem with that - maybe it should have been that way a long time ago. But for some reason, someone thought that the school property belonged to the students and that anytime they were using it (either during the camps or for the actual sports) they would not be charged. I think it is fair to say, the majority of kids that go to the camps are members of this community and their parents are already paying their taxes to pay for the buildings/fields/courts.
Still not sure why you feel coaches shouldn't receive any compensation for running the camps unless you feel that the camps are too expensive. The facts still remain, parents paid for a service - to have their child learn more about a sport during these camps, and those services were rendered.
Or, could it be that the coaches took advantage of the parents whose child had an interest in learning more about their sport; and the coaches rendering their services took an interest in watching their personal bank accounts grow?
Not so much

Springboro, OH

#30813 Feb 28, 2014
Kelly Kohls and Doug Weideman are trying so hard to be relevant. It's not working.

I wasn't at the meeting unfortunately, but I sure wish I had been there to see Miller finally able to speak his mind!
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30814 Feb 28, 2014
Bravo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't think that the question is whether to give it to the coaches or give it to the children. What this district has been concerned with is do they (the district) get there share. As the new policy states, 20% of the funds will go to the district - not sure exactly how that money will be used yet, but it may or may not go directly to the children. The rest will go to the coaches. So the only difference I see from the way it has been done for over 10 years is that the district now gets there share. I don't have a problem with that - maybe it should have been that way a long time ago. But for some reason, someone thought that the school property belonged to the students and that anytime they were using it (either during the camps or for the actual sports) they would not be charged. I think it is fair to say, the majority of kids that go to the camps are members of this community and their parents are already paying their taxes to pay for the buildings/fields/courts.
Still not sure why you feel coaches shouldn't receive any compensation for running the camps unless you feel that the camps are too expensive. The facts still remain, parents paid for a service - to have their child learn more about a sport during these camps, and those services were rendered.
The program you describe is as if one's boss strongly suggested an employee pay to attend a seminar that the boss was hosting about being a better employee at the boss' business.

My guess is that would not sit too well with many employees.

Unfortunately for your argument, the coaches are the ones who thought that school property belonged to them and them alone. Selling the use of public assets and access for personal gain is wrong, even you can see that. Coaches financialy utilizing their public connections with the schools to create an atmosphere of hopeful deference from aspiring athletes is also wrong.

If we truly live in an egalitarian community, the cream will rise to the top in academics, athletics, or other extracurriculars. Let those children who do the work, display the talent, and perform when it is time enjoy the fruits of their labors in the spotlight.

I abhor the thought that those who feel the need to financially patronize a coach, teacher, or instructor in hopes of advancing the son or daughters career.

The policy committee is looking at revising the amount of "gifts" a teacher may accept, just what constitutes "reasonable" is in the same category as "fair" compensation. Not that any coach, teacher, or instructor could be influenced by the acceptance of such gifts regardless of their amount or frequency, but why take the chance, let us remove all temptation.

Our parents run on a volunteer basis, PeeWee Football, Select and Saturday Basketball, Select and Youth Baseball, LaCrosse, Select and Youth Soccer, etc. Some parent coaches are good and some are not so good, just like the paid coaches we have throughout the system.
On the Money

Lebanon, OH

#30815 Mar 1, 2014
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
The program you describe is as if one's boss strongly suggested an employee pay to attend a seminar that the boss was hosting about being a better employee at the boss' business.

My guess is that would not sit too well with many employees.
Right on the nose Doug, how many of us would think kindly of our boss strongly suggesting we pay him to attend his seminar teaching us how to be better employees of his? I thought the purpose of these coaches was to build better programs and better kids, all this look like is building a better bank account for the coach.
The More You Know

Maineville, OH

#30816 Mar 1, 2014
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I abhor the thought that those who feel the need to financially patronize a coach, teacher, or instructor in hopes of advancing the son or daughters career.
The policy committee is looking at revising the amount of "gifts" a teacher may accept, just what constitutes "reasonable" is in the same category as "fair" compensation. Not that any coach, teacher, or instructor could be influenced by the acceptance of such gifts regardless of their amount or frequency, but why take the chance, let us remove all temptation.
Our parents run on a volunteer basis, PeeWee Football, Select and Saturday Basketball, Select and Youth Baseball, LaCrosse, Select and Youth Soccer, etc. Some parent coaches are good and some are not so good, just like the paid coaches we have throughout the system.
You abhor it? It's done ALL THE TIME. Do you know how much money it took to have a college coach notice your child? I have heard numbers in the thousands of dollars. It's a business like any other and college recruitment is an entire industry on it's own (just google college recruitment)

"You can't afford to pay a recruiting service or consultant $1,000 or more, but you need help.
Each year thousands of student athletes and parents market themselves to college coaches. Some are very successful, some are not. It's not a difficult process if you have a road map and the basic resources to give your student athlete the best possible advantage. Regardless of the type of college sport, the process is the same - you have to get noticed to get recruited!"

- http://huskysoccer.i8.com/TESC%20/Recruiting%...

As far as "select" sports goes. Most of the "select" teams around here are glorified daddy ball. There are teams 30 minutes south that IF you make the team you are all but guaranteed a scholarship to some college (might be Sinclair, but a college none the less). These organizations also have coaches that are paid (I overheard one group talking about a select assistant (not head) coach making $3,000 for the 3 months of work. The coaches also do NOT have children on the team and usually have been doing it for years. I also know that some of the "select" teams around have coaches that "pay" themselves.

Remember, this is a country founded on and driven by capitalism (the all-mighty dollar). At the end of the day that's what it's about (unfortunately). If you think it's bad now imagine what will happen if/when the pay college athletes!

Right or wrong is moot. The fact is that (just like the camps at the H.S.) it is done all the time around this country. It may not make it right, but it is the norm that is sports in this country and some parents (wrongly) feel that in order to compete and give their child the best chance possible they have to play by those rules.

Finally I can't imagine that a student giving the teacher an apple is something you'd like to see go away. This is a staple found in movies for ages (including A Christmas Story, one of my favorites) How far do you go? Should we not have our kids smile or acknowledge educators outside the classroom or wish them a happy birthday?

The More You Know

Maineville, OH

#30817 Mar 1, 2014
On the Money wrote:
<quoted text>
Right on the nose Doug, how many of us would think kindly of our boss strongly suggesting we pay him to attend his seminar teaching us how to be better employees of his? I thought the purpose of these coaches was to build better programs and better kids, all this look like is building a better bank account for the coach.
Anyone who works for a boss that attends seminars are indirectly PAYING FOR THEIR BOSS TO ATTEND THE SEMINAR. An employee helps the company make money and that money is used by the other employees (ie. boss) to do things to further themselves and therefore the business.

I really don't understand how so many on here are against capitalism. What's with all the anti-capitalism speech?
So true

Springboro, OH

#30818 Mar 1, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone who works for a boss that attends seminars are indirectly PAYING FOR THEIR BOSS TO ATTEND THE SEMINAR. An employee helps the company make money and that money is used by the other employees (ie. boss) to do things to further themselves and therefore the business.
I really don't understand how so many on here are against capitalism. What's with all the anti-capitalism speech?
Under Dougie's logic, that so-called "Children First" school board should have been working for free, right? Especially during all those extra meetings they called.

I agree with you. Those camps were beyond what's in the coach's contracts, and they should have been compensated.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30819 Mar 1, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
You abhor it? It's done ALL THE TIME. Do you know how much money it took to have a college coach notice your child? I have heard numbers in the thousands of dollars. It's a business like any other and college recruitment is an entire industry on it's own (just google college recruitment)
"You can't afford to pay a recruiting service or consultant $1,000 or more, but you need help.
Each year thousands of student athletes and parents market themselves to college coaches. Some are very successful, some are not. It's not a difficult process if you have a road map and the basic resources to give your student athlete the best possible advantage. Regardless of the type of college sport, the process is the same - you have to get noticed to get recruited!"
- http://huskysoccer.i8.com/TESC%20/Recruiting%...
Truth is vastly more money is awarded in academic scholarships than in athletic scholarships.

In 2012 there were 21,600,000 college students.

In 2012 there were 420,000 NCAA athletes

2% were on some sort of athletic scholarship, more often than not this was a partial scholarship not the coveted full ride.

Want to invest all your money in hopes your child will get that partial scholarship to a college they have never heard of before?

Good luck with course of action.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30820 Mar 1, 2014
So true wrote:
<quoted text>
Under Dougie's logic, that so-called "Children First" school board should have been working for free, right? Especially during all those extra meetings they called.
I agree with you. Those camps were beyond what's in the coach's contracts, and they should have been compensated.
The parsimonious amounts that are paid school board members,$125/meeting, about $80/meeting is hardly the financial incentive most would accept manage a $50,000,000 corporation. I am sure that no one on that board is doing this for the money, except of course the retirees on the board.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30821 Mar 1, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone who works for a boss that attends seminars are indirectly PAYING FOR THEIR BOSS TO ATTEND THE SEMINAR. An employee helps the company make money and that money is used by the other employees (ie. boss) to do things to further themselves and therefore the business.
I really don't understand how so many on here are against capitalism. What's with all the anti-capitalism speech?
WRONGO once again Less you Know.

I am more specifically speaking of your boss "highly suggesting" that you, the employee, pay your boss money so you can attend the boss's seminar on how you can be a better employee and have a chance at continued future employment.

That is not capitalism, that is called extortion.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30822 Mar 1, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>

As far as "select" sports goes. Most of the "select" teams around here are glorified daddy ball. There are teams 30 minutes south that IF you make the team you are all but guaranteed a scholarship to some college (might be Sinclair, but a college none the less). These organizations also have coaches that are paid (I overheard one group talking about a select assistant (not head) coach making $3,000 for the 3 months of work. The coaches also do NOT have children on the team and usually have been doing it for years. I also know that some of the "select" teams around have coaches that "pay" themselves.
Remember, this is a country founded on and driven by capitalism (the all-mighty dollar). At the end of the day that's what it's about (unfortunately). If you think it's bad now imagine what will happen if/when the pay college athletes!
Right or wrong is moot. The fact is that (just like the camps at the H.S.) it is done all the time around this country. It may not make it right, but it is the norm that is sports in this country and some parents (wrongly) feel that in order to compete and give their child the best chance possible they have to play by those rules.
Those select teams you speak of have tryouts and offer a spot to the best players in hopes of building a winning team because people like to play for winning teams. There is a motive there to field the best team available to produce winning records that are utilized to recruit other players onto winning programs. You are correct in assessing them as capitalism working its ruthless best. Good teams thrive under this system, poorer ones fold.

Your assessment of right and wrong not mattering is, however, incorrect. I pray you are not teaching, promoting, or displaying that ethical assessment to unknowing children.

How we choose to run our programs is a reflection upon our character, values, and what we prize most in this area. I would hope it is for the children and their best interests as opposed to some adults who take advantage of their position to exploit others hopes and dreams.
TV Land

Springboro, OH

#30823 Mar 1, 2014
Not so much wrote:
Kelly Kohls and Doug Weideman are trying so hard to be relevant. It's not working.
I wasn't at the meeting unfortunately, but I sure wish I had been there to see Miller finally able to speak his mind!
Be sure to see the TV broadcast of the February 27th School board meeting; in which
Miller proves once again that "a mind really is a terrible thing to lose."
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30824 Mar 1, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>

Finally I can't imagine that a student giving the teacher an apple is something you'd like to see go away. This is a staple found in movies for ages (including A Christmas Story, one of my favorites) How far do you go? Should we not have our kids smile or acknowledge educators outside the classroom or wish them a happy birthday?
I wonder how many apples our teachers received last year as opposed to $25 gift cards to Starbucks?

And what of the children who are not fortunate enough to have the economic means to match that gift?

Those PTO mothers who promote gift cards to teachers paid out of PTO funds?

Nothing says generosity like giving away other people's money.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30825 Mar 1, 2014
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
The parsimonious amounts that are paid school board members,$125/meeting, about $80/meeting is hardly the financial incentive most would accept manage a $50,000,000 corporation. I am sure that no one on that board is doing this for the money, except of course the retirees on the board.
$80 was the after tax amount
Free Workouts 4 The Kids

Springboro, OH

#30826 Mar 1, 2014
The following flyer went out to all Springboro Schools teachers and staff earlier this week.

A "gift" from "your employer" Springboro schools?
MY ARSE !!

The correct title for this notice should be:
"To the already over-entitled teachers and staff of Springboro Community City Schools, compliments of Springboro Area Taxpayers "

Someone should pick up the phone and call Coffman YMCA to tell them Springboro Schools is cheating on them!

__________

ANNOUNCING A NEW FITNESS CLASS FOR SPRINGBORO STAFF!

A gift from your employer...AT NO COST TO YOU!

STARTING MARCH 10 2014
FROM 4:15PM - 5:05PM
EVERY MONDAY AFTERNOON

My name is __________ and I own a company in Centerville called __________ I offer corporate wellness classes and programs (as well as private one-on-one training), and I am proud to announce that a new fitness class will be coming this March to the the awesome teachers at Springboro City Schools!

This class will consist of body weight training, requiring you to bring only a mat, water, a towel if you'd like, yourself, and a positive attitude! We will be doing a wide range of exercises, all tailored to your group and each individual attendee. Knee problems? Previous shoulder injury? Just nervous about working out? No problem. I will work with you so you get the best workout possible, give you suggestions of alternate exercises as needed, and make your experience fun and successful. Everyone will work at their own pace...just do what you can! The more you come, the easier it gets and the harder you can work! All you have to do is show up!

Start your week off right with a 50-minute workout, right after work, IN THE MULTI-MEDIA ROOM OF SPRINGBORO INTERMEDIATE.

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