Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31911 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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The More You Know

Franksville, WI

#30145 Jan 24, 2014
your red herring lunch wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, so what's the 1st thing you do?
You can't prove your point, so you mix completely unrelated arguments.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-...
Just becasue it's not proven to YOU doesn't mean it's not proven. The previous poster cited an article about asian countries scoring higher than the US. Must be crowded on the denial train...

Keep any view you want. Most on this site are delusional and fail to see and respect the will of the voters. It's well known what this forum represents.
The More You Know

Franksville, WI

#30146 Jan 24, 2014
FOR THE SAKE OF REPETITION!

Performance Index 2012-2013
The Performance Index measures the test results of every student, not just those who score proficient or higher. There are six levels on the index and districts receive points for every student in each of these levels. The higher the achievement level, the more the points awarded in the district's index. This rewards schools and districts for improving performance.

Ach. Level____% of Students_Points for Level_Points Received
Adv. Plus________0.5__________1.3__ ________0.6
Advanced________36.0__________ 1.2__________43.2
Accelerated_____30.8__________ 1.1__________33.9
Proficient______25.5__________ 1.0__________25.5
Basic__________5.3__________0. 6__________3.2
Limited__________1.8__________ 0.3__________0.5
Untested_________0.1__________ 0.0__________0.0
__________TOTAL:_106.9

89.1%(106.9 out of 120.0)

A = 90.0 - 100.0%
B = 80.0 - 89.9%
C = 70.0 - 79.9%
D = 50.0 - 69.9%
F = 0.0 - 49.9%

School Year Performance Index
2010 - 2011_______111.1
2011 - 2012_______110.2
2012 - 2013_______106.9

Notice a trend?
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30147 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
You left out:
“Unfortunately some of these individuals are not just interested in reducing expenses and maintaining taxes at their current level. There are those that have a goal to destroy public education as it exists – government schools, they call them – and use anti-tax and pro-voucher issues to reduce funding to schools to help reach that goal,” she said.
Maybe they just want to see us realize our kid's potential and quit settling for being better than even lesser performing districts. Competition is a good thing, what are you afraid of if you are such a superior choice?
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30148 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
FOR THE SAKE OF REPETITION!
Performance Index 2012-2013
The Performance Index measures the test results of every student, not just those who score proficient or higher. There are six levels on the index and districts receive points for every student in each of these levels. The higher the achievement level, the more the points awarded in the district's index. This rewards schools and districts for improving performance.
Ach. Level____% of Students_Points for Level_Points Received
Adv. Plus________0.5__________1.3__ ________0.6
Advanced________36.0__________ 1.2__________43.2
Accelerated_____30.8__________ 1.1__________33.9
Proficient______25.5__________ 1.0__________25.5
Basic__________5.3__________0. 6__________3.2
Limited__________1.8__________ 0.3__________0.5
Untested_________0.1__________ 0.0__________0.0
__________TOTAL:_106.9
89.1%(106.9 out of 120.0)
A = 90.0 - 100.0%
B = 80.0 - 89.9%
C = 70.0 - 79.9%
D = 50.0 - 69.9%
F = 0.0 - 49.9%
School Year Performance Index
2010 - 2011_______111.1
2011 - 2012_______110.2
2012 - 2013_______106.9
Notice a trend?
I think Wiedeman sums it up the state of affairs for phony measurements. Argue Wiedeman's review of the test results on the math scores for the district and then tell us its great.

The PI is calculated by using a weighted average of individual student performance levels on the proficiency and achievement tests at grades where multiple score levels are reported. As achievement tests are implemented the scores will be included in the PI calculation beginning with the first year’s administration of the new test

It measures how many children are PROFICIENT or above. As we all should know by now PROFICIENT equals FAILURE. No child who is scoring 33%-63% on a test is PROFICIENT at anything.

Friendly euphemisms are no substitute for actual accomplishment in the classrooms.

The numbers you cite are a reflection of the culture of fun and dumbing down the program of studies across the board to reward more people with artificial "A's" on a report card that are actually deserved.

The headline in the Dayton Daily News today reflects this sad state of affairs.
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30149 Jan 24, 2014
Answer this progression down the hill for kids.

Lets take a look at our progress in Mathematics. Let's look at the same class traveling from 3rd grade to 6th grade, these children are now in the 7th grade. Let's see what progress our students are making.

3rd Grade 2009-2010 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......52 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 3rd grade
.
Limited.......... 14 Students
Limited..........definition--0 -24 correct answers =(0-46% correct)
.
Basic..........46 Students
Basic..........definition--25 - 32 correct answers =(48-62% correct)
.
Proficient........158 Students
Proficient.........definition- 33-41 correct answers =(63-79% correct)
.
Accelerated.....124 Students
Accelerated.....definition--42 -45 correct answers =(81-87% correct)
.
Advanced........124 Students
Advanced........definition--46 -52 correct answers =(88-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......59 Students
Percentage of Students.....13% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......83 Students
Percentage of Students.....18% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........127 Students
Percentage of Students.....27% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........149 Students
Percentage of Students.....32% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....46 Students
Percentage of Students....10% receiving A

In 3rd grade we find

PASSING 75% or better - 69%

FAILING 74% and below - 31%
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30150 Jan 24, 2014
Pay attention to the definitions of each of the state euphemisms Wiedeman supplied.

4th Grade 2010-2011 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......52 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 4th grade
.
Limited.......... 8 Students
Limited..........definition--0 -16 correct answers =(0-31% correct)
.
Basic..........32 Students
Basic..........definition--17 - 24 correct answers =(33-46% correct)
.
Proficient........108 Students
Proficient.........definition- -25-36 correct answers =(48-69% correct)
.
Accelerated.....104 Students
Accelerated.....definition--37 -42 correct answers =(63-81% correct)
.
Advanced........176 Students
Advanced........definition--43 -52 correct answers =(83-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......104 Students
Percentage of Students.....24% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......76 Students
Percentage of Students.....18% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........93 Students
Percentage of Students.....22% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........98 Students
Percentage of Students.....23% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....57 Students
Percentage of Students....13% receiving A

In 4th grade we find

PASSING 75% or better - 58%

FAILING 74% and below - 42%
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30151 Jan 24, 2014
Same kids just a different year and scores are reflecting getting only part of the material each year.

5th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......52 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 5th grade
.
Limited.......... 20 Students
Limited..........definition--0 -17 correct answers =(0-33% correct)
.
Basic..........35 Students
Basic..........definition--18 - 23 correct answers =(34-44% correct)
.
Proficient........107 Students
Proficient.........definition- -24-32 correct answers =(46-62% correct)
.
Accelerated.....76 Students
Accelerated.....definition--33 -37 correct answers =(63-71% correct)
.
Advanced........213 Students
Advanced........definition--38 -52 correct answers =(73-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......162 Students
Percentage of Students.....36% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......95 Students
Percentage of Students.....21% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........90 Students
Percentage of Students.....20% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........77 Students
Percentage of Students.....17% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....27 Students
Percentage of Students....6% receiving A

In 5th grade we find

PASSING 75% or better - 43%

FAILING 74% and below - 57%
The More You Know

Franksville, WI

#30152 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Learn wrote:
<quoted text>
I think Wiedeman sums it up the state of affairs for phony measurements. Argue Wiedeman's review of the test results on the math scores for the district and then tell us its great.
The PI is calculated by using a weighted average of individual student performance levels on the proficiency and achievement tests at grades where multiple score levels are reported. As achievement tests are implemented the scores will be included in the PI calculation beginning with the first year’s administration of the new test
It measures how many children are PROFICIENT or above. As we all should know by now PROFICIENT equals FAILURE. No child who is scoring 33%-63% on a test is PROFICIENT at anything.
Friendly euphemisms are no substitute for actual accomplishment in the classrooms.
The numbers you cite are a reflection of the culture of fun and dumbing down the program of studies across the board to reward more people with artificial "A's" on a report card that are actually deserved.
The headline in the Dayton Daily News today reflects this sad state of affairs.
And the wheels go round and round (spin,spin,spin)....Nice bloviation.
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30153 Jan 24, 2014
First year school board put some emphasis on our program of study, yet even here 44% of the kids are less than 75%.

6th Grade 2012-2013 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 5th grade
.
Limited.......... 14 Students
Limited..........definition--0 -14 correct answers =(0-26% correct)
.
Basic..........28 Students
Basic..........definition--14 - 19 correct answers =(28-38% correct)
.
Proficient........88 Students
Proficient.........definition- -20-29 correct answers =(40-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....93 Students
Accelerated.....definition--30 -35 correct answers =(60-70% correct)
.
Advanced........245 Students
Advanced........definition--36 -50 correct answers =(72-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......71 Students
Percentage of Students.....19% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......96 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........99 Students
Percentage of Students.....26% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........72 Students
Percentage of Students.....19% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....40 Students
Percentage of Students....11% receiving A

In 6th grade we find

PASSING 75% or better - 56%

FAILING 74% and below - 44%
The More You Learn

Lebanon, OH

#30154 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
And the wheels go round and round (spin,spin,spin)....Nice bloviation.
You seem to be getting it handed to you by Mr. Wiedeman.
Excuse Me

Springfield, OH

#30155 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
Shows the need for common core. Too bad we can't set standards for college. Maybe the college's should try Children's First Budgeting (more with less $) Oh wait, that's right they operate in a FREE market where capitalism rules the day.
Did you notice in the article that they require applicants to take developmental courses and:
"Developmental courses cost the same as general college classes but don’t count toward a degree. Students can become discouraged and need more time and money to graduate."
Nice way for a college to collect more money and gouge the new students. Good thing the state doesn't regulate that sort of thing....
The report also states:"More students needed remediation in math, 34 percent, than English, 20 percent. And 14 percent needed to take both."
If you look at the December 2013 report for Springboro the number of students that needed developmental courses compared to the paper is as follows:
Taking Develop. Math or English State Average: 40% Springboro: 10%
Taking Develop. Math State Average: 34% Springboro: 15%
Taking Develop. English State Average: 20% Springboro: 8%
Taking BOTH Develop. Math & English State Average: 14% Springboro: 4%
Compared to the state average we look pretty outstanding.
The way people blame Dr. Malone for everything around here, I wonder how many of them will give him the credit for out performing the state average.
Once again, It's all about perspective...
You may see failure but I see that compared to the state Boro is doing pretty well. Thank you Dr. Malone!(looks like the voter's got it right at the last election!)
The way some people see it, Dr. Malone is NOT blamed for everything around here.... Dr. Malone is only seen as a beloved old man who held a special place of trust, authority, and influence in our community; who is regarded by his special chosen group of students as an insanely popular high school principal who just wants to have fun! Now we can't blame the kids for that immature perspective; its what young people do..... just praise and worship adult leaders that "bond" with the kids in protest of the big bad mean old "establishment" who just wants to "push" their fun loving princiPAL Ron out of his job as "Super" hero.

But let's take a common sense look beneath that "air-brushed" picture of Ron Malone True History as revealed in the public records reports of his Professional Peer Reviewers, his Superiors, and his own public pronouncements....AND you betcha...."the more you know"
the more YOU may see failure..... If YOU are willing to accept the TRUTH, regardless of your "Perspective" of Ron Malone as a Great Man and a good role model for our students as a PROFESSIONAL Educator.

Wake Up People! Keep your eyes wide open and Watch every move that Malone makes in the public board meetings; and every step that he takes; and every vote that he casts .... all in the direction of re-instating his old failed practices of Misallocation of district and taxpayer resources; AND dumbing down our students curriculum, putting his self interests FIRST, running our school district like a union shop; to the detriment of the gifted and those in need of early intervention, who suffered the most.
cheese on the cracker

Springfield, OH

#30156 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
Most on this site are delusional and fail to see and respect the will of the voters.
Correction :

Most on this site are realistic in the aspect that they do not respect the will of SEA-manipulated, union-brainwashed individuals in this district who placed their votes for little more for the sake of bolstering the POPULARITY of the first person listed on the little black yard campaign signs.
The More You Know

Tipp City, OH

#30157 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Learn wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be getting it handed to you by Mr. Wiedeman.
It got handed to him last election.....
proof in the pudding

Springfield, OH

#30158 Jan 24, 2014
Excuse Me wrote:
<quoted text>
The way some people see it, Dr. Malone is NOT blamed for everything around here.... Dr. Malone is only seen as a beloved old man who held a special place of trust, authority, and influence in our community; who is regarded by his special chosen group of students as an insanely popular high school principal who just wants to have fun! Now we can't blame the kids for that immature perspective; its what young people do..... just praise and worship adult leaders that "bond" with the kids in protest of the big bad mean old "establishment" who just wants to "push" their fun loving princiPAL Ron out of his job as "Super" hero.
Speaking of Super Heroes, apparently a number of students at SHS are learning the hard way that the costume wearing math teacher is something less than a superhero when it comes to the art of being a good educator.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30159 Jan 24, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
It got handed to him last election.....
I helped get 40% through, not bad. Apparently some thinking readers believe I have bested you, but then that was not the challenge one would suppose. Let's debate the points at hand about the lack of results we see in our state testing and see who gets who. You can support the side that says PROFICIENT is good enough. I will demonstrate why you are wrong in your assertion and how PROFICIENT equals FAILURE.
The More You Know

Tipp City, OH

#30160 Jan 24, 2014
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I helped get 40% through, not bad. Apparently some thinking readers believe I have bested you, but then that was not the challenge one would suppose. Let's debate the points at hand about the lack of results we see in our state testing and see who gets who. You can support the side that says PROFICIENT is good enough. I will demonstrate why you are wrong in your assertion and how PROFICIENT equals FAILURE.
40%????

Thought that equaled FAILURE in your world (at least according to your stats about our students.)

I don't need to best you. This isn't a contest or even a debate. It's a forum. Someone needs to get a clue and step away from their delusion and back into reality.
The More You Know

Tipp City, OH

#30161 Jan 24, 2014
cheese on the cracker wrote:
<quoted text>
Correction :
Most on this site are realistic in the aspect that they do not respect the will of SEA-manipulated, union-brainwashed individuals in this district who placed their votes for little more for the sake of bolstering the POPULARITY of the first person listed on the little black yard campaign signs.
Yea, all 10 of them........
The More You Know

Tipp City, OH

#30162 Jan 24, 2014
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I helped get 40% through, not bad. Apparently some thinking readers believe I have bested you, but then that was not the challenge one would suppose. Let's debate the points at hand about the lack of results we see in our state testing and see who gets who. You can support the side that says PROFICIENT is good enough. I will demonstrate why you are wrong in your assertion and how PROFICIENT equals FAILURE.
Not sure what you mean by 40% but if you're taking about Anderson then it would be 33%. You must be using the "New Math". Still 33% in your world is still FAILURE.

100% of the candidates for the BOE I voted for made it. Now that's PRFICIENT.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30163 Jan 25, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure what you mean by 40% but if you're taking about Anderson then it would be 33%. You must be using the "New Math". Still 33% in your world is still FAILURE.
100% of the candidates for the BOE I voted for made it. Now that's PRFICIENT.
Congratulations to you.

In baseball hitting .300 gets you in the Hall of Fame. Shooting 40% from the three point line is considered great in college basketball.

Learning only 30-40% of the material in a given school year, each and every year, is the recipe for disaster in a child's future.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#30164 Jan 25, 2014
The More You Know wrote:
<quoted text>
40%????
Thought that equaled FAILURE in your world (at least according to your stats about our students.)
I don't need to best you. This isn't a contest or even a debate. It's a forum. Someone needs to get a clue and step away from their delusion and back into reality.
Forums are a place for open discussion of competing ideas, much like something called a debate.

In this instance we discuss our school system and how best to deliver the educational goods to the largest number of students in the most efficient and effective way possible.

There appears to be two competing visions for how this should be done, one calling for reform and results for our children, the other calling for maintaining the status quo for the employees.

Which side do you wish to argue, the needs of the children or the demands of the union?

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