There are 31818 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:
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#25656 Jul 11, 2013
You know, the numbers don't mean what some of you think they mean. Test that are designed to measure proficiency across a large range as well as beyond what should be taught will have numbers that don't work with the normal A-B-C-D-F scale. They are not meant to.
My oldest child took a number of test in 2nd grade that were actually 3rd grade test because he had already maxed out the 2nd grade scores. Sometimes he got 10/30 on the 3rd grade test. Some of you would believe that to be an F and would say that it is a failure.
The way such testing works is to set it such that it would be expected that a post high school education would be the bar for a perfect score, with questions above and beyond what should be taught. In this way, proficient is what the target is, and would be the A range. The two levels above that mean that students are learning more than is required, and doing better than the state's goals.
The point is, these test are not written for the level they are given, but beyond that. I have no doubt my second grader could have passed the 3rd grade test last year. I wouldn't expect him to get advanced on the 3rd grade test, but he would certainly pass it.
#25657 Jul 11, 2013
Most raises parsed out in the private sector are based primarily on the individual's value to the employing entity. Such things as time in service, attitude, attendance, and degree of difficulty of task required also factor into the final equation along with a host of other particulars for a given job. The present and future health of the employer is also taken into account to ensure the long term viability and sustainability of that employer.
I note in your plea for "fairness" for the teachers a lack of concern for 2000 plus children in our district that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding. You appear to be taken with the euphemisms surrounding the state achievement tests. The largest component of that rating is the number of children you can get to the Proficient rating on the state achievement assessments. The problem with that is the bar for proficiency is set laughably low.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066"
When is this argument that our schools are failing going to go away????? This is a standardized test! It is set up so the "average student" answers half the questions correctly. If this were not the case, how could a student make more than a year's progress in one year? This continual posting of misleading information is harmful and I have grown weary of seeing this post over and over and over and over again - it is fueling the myth that our schools are failing. Is there room for improvement? Of course! Are we failing? Absolutely not!
#25658 Jul 11, 2013
I think the point you may be missing in your zeal to use buzz words such as greedy, egotistical, and personal agendas amongst others to describe this BOE is that the community had had enough of the SEA/Baker BOE that never met a levy they didn't like. The Trifiros, Colstons, Thomsens, et al that never did their homework, never looked at ways to budget responsibly, they simply told us we were running over a financial cliff if we didn't pay more and more in property taxes to be able to give yearly out of touch raises to teachers, to give generous step raises, to pay 90% of their health care benefits while paying 35% of our own. And their solutions to these failed levy requests to cut services to the kids, require high pay to play fees.
THAT is what this community has had enough of and finally voted in BOE members that are willing to do their homework, ask the hard questions, come up with responsible budgets, be responsible to not just the kids, staff, but to the community as a whole.
And thank goodness this BOE has the backbone to take the crap thrown at them by a very small, but loud minority of this community and union outsiders with very personal agendas.
But back to the question Mr Weideman asked:
What is a fair contract?
What is unfair about the contract the BOE has offered?
Please be specific.
#25659 Jul 11, 2013
It would be irresponsible to not consider all possible outcomes and develop contingency plans should they be required.
This is a simple matter of performing unpleasant duties while in office. To shirk from them would not be in the best interest of any parties involved.
It would be a pity to see money spent in this fashion, but if the teachers feel that there is no other alternative and their working and pay conditions are too onerous a burden to bear any longer, then it is up to the teachers to decide what is in their best interest.
It is incumbent upon the school board to prepare for as many possible outcomes as will be evident or feasible.
Money lost in a strike is never made up by anyone, it and the time wasted on it are gone forever.
Politicizing this folly at the expense of our children, parents, taxpayers, and staff will be an even greater tragedy.
Remember that retirees will still be receiving their checks while those on the picket line go without an income.
How many have the financial reserves and credit to go two or three months without a paycheck?
And how long will it take to dig yourself out of a financial hole that large? Months? Years?
In the best of circumstances for the teachers an new union friendly board could be elected, then the union could negotiate with union members. While that would be great for the union, it would be disaster for the community wallet.
And there is no guarantee that your cause will prevail at the polls, the community may not see you in the same light come election day, they may opt for civilian control of our schools.
These were just some musings of mine and reflect only my opinion and not the owners of this station or blog.
#25660 Jul 11, 2013
While your daughter did remarkably at the second grade level, the third grade test demonstrated she did not possess the knowledge to pass that test.
Sample tests are all on line on the Ohio Department of Education website, see for yourself the degree of difficulty these tests possess.
#25661 Jul 11, 2013
Obviously, you have little to no clue about Doug's sensible line of logic because you've spent your career working in public service Land of Oz.
Re: Your comment - "This community has had enough"
Please speak for yourself! You must always remember that SENSIBLE people in the Boro are heard through their ballots because they don't wish to waste time or energy being blowhards.
#25662 Jul 11, 2013
A friend of mine told me about this website. I have to say it is great entertainment. I have to admit, I actually voted for Kelly because I agreed with some of her issues. I am retired and all of my children are out of the house. I have to say I am worried about the direction this school board is taking our community. I have friends in other states who have seen the embarrassment this town is taking due to the antics of this school board. I am no longer proud to say I live in Springboro Ohio. I can tell you I WILL NOT be voting for Kelly. We need to get honest trust worthy people on this board who will bring back the community I moved to 22 years ago. I am a SENSIBlE person in the Boro who can honestly say being retired, I have better things to do than fight and call people names on this site. When people have to resort to these actions, it only shows how worried and insecure you are in your position. Maybe your bosses should start monitoring the amount of time you spend on this site instead of doing your job. Residents of the BORO will be heard through the ballots in November and we WILL have change to our school board. And then our new school board will restore the Springboro community name.
#25663 Jul 11, 2013
This argument between the BOE and the SEA, questioning which employment contract is fair has been beaten to death and already buried in the legalities of Unionism, which is the false religion legally imposed by our State collective bargaining rights, upon
free citizens who have a right to work and enjoy the fruits of their labor, without being taxed by education gods of unionism.
Now the urgency of the argument is which vote "yes" or "no"
vote to strike or not to strike will the Five elected officials of the BOE cast?
We see posted on this blog urgent and passionate pleas from parents to continue status quo worship of our failed Union First agenda, reinstating Ron Malone and reversing our school district finances to the way they were in 2008, before Kelly Kohls was elected as board representative. Kelly Kohls is the first board member to follow our board policy and by-laws by reminding the pro-union board members: I think we should listen to what the taxpayers are telling us. Wow! Now thatís a radical elected official that Unionism must purge out of their sacred taxpayer-funded schools!
Our school board and school district leaders have accomplished so many good things for our children's classroom education; but within the legalized false "state" religion of Unionism, education is not about the children first; but all about Money and Power, and who has control of both. And we have a mighty force of union bully power attacking our children first and our Springboro taxpayers property rights; they are skilled at bullying and confrontation and they have the news media enlisted in their union army, marching to destroy everything good that has been accomplished since last 2008 renewal levy; vowing to take our school district finances right back to business as usual.
But where is the outrage of conservative parents who oppose this liberal OEA unionism indoctrinating the minds of our children to fight for "political collective liberty" instead of "individual freedom of fiscal responsibility? Will we hear from the parents
who vote YES for the BOE to strike....
or will the demands of the education gods of unionism for personal sacrifice rally uncontested, by the union masters: Give us the head of board member/Springboro parent, Kelly Kohls! It would be a sin for her to be re-elected because of her "fiscal responsibility" financial beliefs!
#25664 Jul 11, 2013
Answer me this....Why shouldn't OAA/OGT test scores be set on a A-B-C-D-F scale? Did liberal educators in Ohio set OAA up this way so that our childrens' egos may not be so easily bruised? Lord knows if...(whoops, scratch that!)... no teacher or administrator in our politically-correct public school system DARES to hurt the "feelings" of li'l Brittney, Emily, Brendan or Erik ! OH MY!!This would mean they would have to file a "bullying report" on themselves!
For almost three decades now America's students have been collectively getting their butts kicked by a huge chunk of their global peers. Do our international global competitors use senseless assessment systems such what is used in Ohio Achievement Assessment? Of course not! Generally, they are ranked directly in the order of their achievement level amongst their peers, ON A GRADE SCALE.
When our children graduate from high school and college, they're quickly thrust into the rat race commonly known as "making a living". When they they get there, they begin to realize they need to make a choice - whether consciously or not - to work hard to become financially successful, or to waltz through life not caring that they are a perpetual dependent on the US government (us taxpayers) for some or for possibly all of their sustenance.
Let's take this to our back yard again. For years, Coffman Y has perennially sponsored stupid S.A.Y. sports programs. Yeah, it's great exercise, but that's about it. What Coffman Y is essentially doing is teaching our kids that it's OK to go out into life and not have to keep score.(Just like OAA / OGT exam scores.) Whether it's teachers or SAY coaches, someone's always going to be there with a safety net to protect Emily & Brendan from the "terrible bully" otherwise known as "competition". And this is precisely the reason why most of these S.A.Y. kids get trampled under foot when they try out for club leagues or high school varsity. And this is why many within Boro's most recent crop of EXCELLENT WITH DISTINCTION graduates will very soon be lining up for REMEDIAL CLASSES before they can begin their respective college major!
#25665 Jul 11, 2013
If wishes could come true, and the SEA decides to walk out on our children; does anybody know what the next legal step is to be taken? Are the SEA teachers still considered "employed" by the school district? Will the new teachers, school staff, and students have increased police protection to keep the union bullies from advancing their war of words into actions of physical violence?
Do you think that Springboro voters are educated, as to the consequences of circumstances that will be the fallout of the SEA decision to strike? Are Springboro voters educated as to the drastic financial consequenceses that we can expect if the Board accepts the terms of the SEA, in order to settle the contract with the union with no confrontations? This pro-longed "indecision" of strike or not strike of the union is the emotional blackmailing for dollars that is causing harm to our school district and community. Whatever decision the union makes, the union bears all responsibility for greedily caring only for money, and willing to stomp on our children's backs to get that money.
Why would we want educators, of any degree, to teach our children in our good schools? As parents, shouldn't we demand only the best "intent" from teachers in our children's classrooms -- their love of learning and their burning desire to instill that love of learning in their students minds and actions?
#25666 Jul 11, 2013
Give It Up Retired Teacher! For S-U-R-E your lecture on "better things" would be your mean-spirited, indecent, non-professional bully-campaign against Springboro parent Kelly Kohls!
Elections come and go, but good neighbors who are good leaders like Kelly Kohls, are always winners!
Let's Bring it on in November for your "reinstate Ron Malone" as bully-in-chief in the school board room! Just Remember who will be on the "other side" interrogating, "which one of you is lying?"...the old outdated retired has been a high school principal OR the old outdated retired has been a teacher?" What progress is that for all you "tunnel vision" progressive leaders of our children's future?
#25667 Jul 11, 2013
You are ridiculous, because teachers love to teach they should not expect any compensation for it or shouldn't want to earn more money? Do you work at a job just for the love of the job and don't care about your compensation?
Every taxpayer on this site is just as greedy because they want to keep their money and not pay additional money for a service that is being provided by the district - education. When the gas prices raise, you don't like it but you pay more, when the cost of food raises, you don't like it but you pay more, but for some reason you think that because a teacher is a public servant, they don't have bills just like you, they don't have a family to feed just like you. Teachers are performing a job and they get paid for that job. Like it or not, they also deserve to get a raise once in a while - JUST LIKE YOU!
If you are going to blame someone for this current situation then you should look to the BOE. They had the opportunity to include something for the teachers within their budget but chose not to. Now they are blaming the teachers for wanting more money when anyone looking at the finances of this district could see that after five years the teachers were going to eventually look elsewhere for employment or request more money here.
And lastly, if there is room in the budget for a strike team like Huffmasters (cost to exceed $1 million probably in 1-2 weeks) then there is money for the teachers - very simple!
#25668 Jul 11, 2013
Just super of you to take "time out" of your better things to do, in order to just share your worst feelings about your neighbors, with whom you have lived among for 22 years. Do we hear applause applause for "newbie" on board with us today, and how about an AMEN from the brothers and sisters and their bosses at work, reading this blog, whose careers, no doubt will benefit professinally from newbie's insight into what our future will be.
Welcome Newbie! Your responsible and proud Springboro neighbors
(of all ages) can't help you with your loss of self-pride; but stick around and you may pick up some tips on how to celebrate your successes, as you grow older in age, without your hostile diminshment of the successes of others.
#25669 Jul 11, 2013
Very Simple...They are compensated for the service they provide. They are compensated quite well when all things are considered. They have an excellent benefit package, excellent work condidtions, excellent community support. Long lines of teachers wanting to work here... one is even suing to work here, so the claim they will go elsewhere is garbage.
The BOE has offered more in the way of compensation, more in the way of step raises (which, IMHO, should be done away with entirely...Who else get a raise for simply showing up next year?) And they azre being asked to pay just 20% of their onw health care coverage.
So to your point of wanting more...
what is fair?
What is Unfair about the BOE's offer?
One would think these should be simple questions to answer fo you.
#25670 Jul 11, 2013
Ron Malone on the school board? Wasn't it tough enough trying to keep Miller awake?
#25671 Jul 11, 2013
Here's a better idea. Rather than continuing to justify SEA greed, our BOE and district could use that money "for our kids'" education purposes.
Hey, that reminds me! Just a few years ago wasn't ..."For Our Kids"... NFSS's levy slogan?
The more things seem to change, the more they stay the same!
#25672 Jul 11, 2013
There is no shame, no blame, on the five members of our
Springboro Schools Board of Education.
There is lots of appreciation, gratitude, respect and support for the good leadership of our board members heard throughout our Springboro neighboods! Everybody is talking that what we want in November is what we already have found successful -- And that is the Fabulous Five that we have working diligently for us right now -Kelly Kohls, Wendy Kuhl, Don Miller, David Petroni, Jim Rigano. Our board president is simply doing her job, as elected by the people, one voice-one vote in the free election of November 2009, with the same expertise and due diligence as our SEA president is doing his.
It is just ridiculous and extremely non-professional behavior of the SEA union activists to model such poor citizenship and disrespect with this hostile word of words against the BOE, with false accusations to personally attack, distort and discredit every leadership proposal made in the board room. And it has been relentless.... just because the SEA/union activists have never witnessed BOE members "get to work doing what's right for our school children and community of very generous taxpayers!"
But, there you go again, with your tired old status quo "name-calling and bullying tactics"...still trying to indoctrinate me, a responsible spender who knows HOW to think, based on facts of Children First budgeting; pushing, shoving your agenda, trying to teach me HOW to think YOUR tax and spend way of forced unionization! Not a chance!
Here's the deal for taking! A great employement contract offer of job security, safe and comfortable working conditions in facilities located in beautiful neighborhoods, great pay and compensation/benfits packages, great kids to spend your work day enjoying, supportive parents (many of whom testify publicly how educated and wealthy they are and how they are going to take back their BOE from parents who the SEA say are less thought of as being educated and wealthy)... lol!
What say ye, SEA, you have the deciding vote -- Is it "take it" or "leave it?"
#25673 Jul 11, 2013
Nobody said you should work for free, but to cry the blues that you are underpaid is a comical farce,
How many people would like to be earning between $29 and $65/hour? Underpaid, I don't think. so. And if you are on strike you are not getting paid, the money goes to Huffmaster. I think our weekly payroll is about $600,000 with benefits and retirement pay so we will probably break even.
#25675 Jul 11, 2013
To union owned and operated.. The rest of us will also have a new name. BROKE
#25676 Jul 11, 2013
Yes! We will be BROKE from repeat levys being shoved down our throats due to uncontrolled spending practices of tax-and-spend liberal slacker administrators!!
Does this sound familiar? If you've been here for a while, it should! Because, ladies and gentlemen, Springboro School District is headed backward by the speed of light to re-kindle the infamous DR. DAVID BAKER era !!
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