Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,792

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sheep

Springboro, OH

#25635 Jul 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
What is the plan for the union in my humble opinion?
1) Don't negotiate in good faith
2) Attempt to portray the union members as victims of evil BOE
3) Force Strike
4) Create chaos and anxiety for children and families in coming school year
5) Run and elect union members and union sympathizers for BOE as "compromise" candidates (The only ones they will compromise will be the taxpayers)
6) Once union has control of BOE begin negotiations with union friendly BOE
7) Sign new more "FAIR" contract with large increases for union members
8) Inform taxpayers they need to pass massive new levy to "fix" district financial problems.
What is the BOE's plan in my humble opinion?

1) Don't negotiate in good faith
2) Attempt to portray the BOE as the "good guys" against the evil teachers
3) Force Strike
4) Create chaos and anxiety for parents and children to get them on the BOE's side
5) Run and re-elect Tea Party folks whose beliefs and ideas are not part of the main stream of the community as a whole.
6) BOE can take over complete control over everything and begin their take over of the entire state.(Ok, that one is probably a stretch.)
7) Sign a contract that is unfair to everyone and not give any increases to anyone for anything, even though employees have not had a raise over the past few years.
8) Inform tax payers that new tax monies will NEVER be needed, although costs for everything do continue to rise. And not just labor costs, but supply costs, utility costs, etc.

Amazing how a lot of the points are almost exactly the same?
Really Now

Lebanon, OH

#25636 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the BOE's plan in my humble opinion?
1) Don't negotiate in good faith (They have been trying since January, it has been the union dragging its feet to the table)
2) Attempt to portray the BOE as the "good guys" against the evil teachers (They have been forthcoming with their offers and where their positions are, the union on the other hand has only said they want fairness, whatever that means)
3) Force Strike (Hello food stamps and free clinics)
4) Create chaos and anxiety for parents and children to get them on the BOE's side (who is looking out for the children and the taxpayers? BOE)
5) Run and re-elect Tea Party folks whose beliefs and ideas are not part of the main stream of the community as a whole.(How come I never see a Tea Party label on a ballot?)
6) BOE can take over complete control over everything and begin their take over of the entire state.(Ok, that one is probably a stretch.)(Even you think you are crazy on that one)
7) Sign a contract that is unfair to everyone and not give any increases to anyone for anything, even though employees have not had a raise over the past few years.(What does unfair mean? The classified staff got their raises and taken care of pretty quickly)
8) Inform tax payers that new tax monies will NEVER be needed, although costs for everything do continue to rise. And not just labor costs, but supply costs, utility costs, etc.(Nobody has said anything of the sort, they have said given our current cash flow we will not need any new money for up to four years out. That is a far cry from the past five unnecessary levies that failed and deservedly so, they wanted Upwards of $40,000,000)
Amazing how a lot of the points are almost exactly the same?
Define FAIR for me because I have not heard a definition of FAIR

TEA PARTY, what does that mean? Who are these folks? Where do they meet? IWhere do they appear on a ballot? I see Republican, Democrats, and Independents, the occasional Green, a Socialist once in a while, but I have never seen Tea Party.

Define Unfair

What does complete control mean?

The classified people who have not had any access to increasing their pay for the past several years got a raise and seem to be happy. They did this with limited amounts of fan fair and got to the point.

Costs do indeed rise, particularly when you allow them to get out of hand in the first place. Costs that are controlled by market forces tend to stay in line with everything else. Union negotiated costs tend to naturally inflate to the advantage of the union and remain outside of normal market controlling factors.

While new money will eventually be needed, careful husbanding of our existing resources will not require those monies for some time into the future. Unless of course we follow the path followed by so many other bankrupt and near bankrupt districts and communities that bent to the union demands.
your red herring lunch

Girard, OH

#25637 Jul 10, 2013
clan wrote:
<quoted text>
How is promoting a curriculum sponsored by a white supremacist putting our children first?
Just Watching's been posting and re-posting data that accurately portrays Springboro student test scores in various grade levels of Ohio Achievement Assessment and the Ohio Graduation Test.
WTF does that have to do with race?
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25638 Jul 10, 2013
Really Now wrote:
<quoted text>
Define FAIR for me because I have not heard a definition of FAIR
TEA PARTY, what does that mean? Who are these folks? Where do they meet? IWhere do they appear on a ballot? I see Republican, Democrats, and Independents, the occasional Green, a Socialist once in a while, but I have never seen Tea Party.
Define Unfair
What does complete control mean?
The classified people who have not had any access to increasing their pay for the past several years got a raise and seem to be happy. They did this with limited amounts of fan fair and got to the point.
Costs do indeed rise, particularly when you allow them to get out of hand in the first place. Costs that are controlled by market forces tend to stay in line with everything else. Union negotiated costs tend to naturally inflate to the advantage of the union and remain outside of normal market controlling factors.
While new money will eventually be needed, careful husbanding of our existing resources will not require those monies for some time into the future. Unless of course we follow the path followed by so many other bankrupt and near bankrupt districts and communities that bent to the union demands.
Who are these Tea Party folks? You honestly cannot with a straight face, ask that question.

Bankrupt and near bankrupt districts. Where are those?

Bargaining with the classified folks don't really stir people up, so of course that was easy to come to a settlement with them. The BOE really couldn't cause any fan fare with those negotiations.

Unfair is in the eye of the beholder.
certainly worth repeating

Girard, OH

#25639 Jul 10, 2013
Truth to Power wrote:
<quoted text>
Springboro Education Association
50 South Main Street
Springboro OH 45066
All good parents and citizens of this Excellent Springboro School District -
Please do not hesitate to drop by our teachers' union headquarters to let them know your explicit feelings about the district's current hot-button subject.....
UNBRIDLED GREED.
Springboro Education Association
50 South Main Street
Springboro OH 45066

All good parents and citizens of this Excellent Springboro School District -
Please do not hesitate to drop by our teachers' union headquarters to let them know your explicit feelings about the district's current hot-button subject.....

UNBRIDLED GREED.
dont drink the kool aid

Girard, OH

#25640 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are these Tea Party folks? You honestly cannot with a straight face, ask that question.
The Tea Party represents America's last hope; or rather the last line of defense against a wave of rampant, destructive Obama-style social liberalism.
Twp resident

Girard, OH

#25641 Jul 10, 2013
You are wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
Teachers need a union because any wack job can get elected to the school board and then they make million dollar decisions for a district.
AH! So I take it this means you're throwing your hat into this fall's BOE race?
ultimatum

Girard, OH

#25642 Jul 10, 2013
NoTeaForMe wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.
I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
This "best and brightest teachers leaving" argument of yours is more than lame! Boro consistenly loses good teachers mediocre teachers and poor teachers for all the same reasons, the most popular typically being moving the family to another area to accomodate career adjustments of the family's primary breadwinner. Before you respond to that---please take into account Springboro's population growth rate in relation to Ohio's general decline in population, as well as the fact that Warren county is the 2nd fastest growing county in Ohio (after Delaware county).

Indeed, Springboro schools and Todd Petrey has a healthy waiting list of teachers to choose from, both younger, as well as older longer teaching histories.

We the parents and citizens of Springboro School District hereby demand the Springboro Education Association accept negotiation terms as outlined and set forth by the Springboro Board of Education.
Heart Burn

United States

#25643 Jul 10, 2013
NoTeaForMe wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.
I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
agenda first? What agenda would that be? Blue ribbons? Excellent with distinction? Children first? responsible fund raising? Busing for all students? Fair pay to play fees?

For the record...isn't your entire post one big rationalization and excuse making for Tammy Grigsby's personal vendetta/agenda?

And you actually "support" this personal agenda she is persuing against the entire district? Tsk tsk. I thought you were against personal agendas?

The double standards continually abound and amaze.

You women crack me up.
Experience vs cost

Piqua, OH

#25644 Jul 10, 2013
ultimatum wrote:
<quoted text>
This "best and brightest teachers leaving" argument of yours is more than lame! Boro consistenly loses good teachers mediocre teachers and poor teachers for all the same reasons, the most popular typically being moving the family to another area to accomodate career adjustments of the family's primary breadwinner. Before you respond to that---please take into account Springboro's population growth rate in relation to Ohio's general decline in population, as well as the fact that Warren county is the 2nd fastest growing county in Ohio (after Delaware county).
Indeed, Springboro schools and Todd Petrey has a healthy waiting list of teachers to choose from, both younger, as well as older longer teaching histories.
We the parents and citizens of Springboro School District hereby demand the Springboro Education Association accept negotiation terms as outlined and set forth by the Springboro Board of Education.
I guess we will have to wait and see what "teaching histories" will be hired into Springboro. My guess, there will be no one hired with much experience because experience costs. Just take a look at the District office - how much experience do we have there?
Superintendent - 0 yrs exp. as Super. before Springboro (and I would argue your point that there was a healthy waiting list for this job since Mr. Petrey was pretty much the only one and he was able to negotiate his own salary - and might I add he got what he wanted - kind of hypocritical if you ask me since he doesn't seem to want the teachers to negotiate any increases)
new HS Principal - 0 yrs exp. as Principal before Springboro
new SI Principal - 0 yrs exp. as Principal
new JR Principal - 0 yrs exp. as Principal
Curriculum lead - 0 yrs exp. as curriculum advisor (although I'll give her some credit that she was a principal)
Business Director - although he is leaving, he had 0 yrs exp. as a business director prior to being put into that position
HR director - 0 yrs exp. prior to her being put into this position
stop liberal tax n spend

Girard, OH

#25645 Jul 10, 2013
Dollars and Sense wrote:
The Springboro Board of Education President makes SENSE to me,
as stated in the Springboro Sun on July 4th.
"We have now completed an evaluation of the financial impact of the current SEA proposal. It exceeds the school district's available funds by more than $2 million in years one and two," Kohls said.
In other words, Springboro's teachers, represented by Springboro Education Association (SEA), are all about the creation of a perceived future need (future $2 million deficit), and then filling this perceived future need by way of attempting to shove another continuing levy down our collective throats!
Sheep

Lebanon, OH

#25647 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are these Tea Party folks? You honestly cannot with a straight face, ask that question.
Bankrupt and near bankrupt districts. Where are those?
Bargaining with the classified folks don't really stir people up, so of course that was easy to come to a settlement with them. The BOE really couldn't cause any fan fare with those negotiations.
Unfair is in the eye of the beholder.
Don't have much respect for those that clean up after you or feed you or get the kids to and from school safely do you?
Our classified staff do the unsung jobs day in and day out, to look down your nose at them sickens me.
Homeless

United States

#25648 Jul 10, 2013
OldManThacker wrote:
<quoted text>
Doug Wiedeman is being investigated for tax evasion, is he not?
Is it possible that you may have him confused with former BOE President Craig Colston?
yes man

Girard, OH

#25649 Jul 10, 2013
Experience vs cost wrote:
<quoted text>

Superintendent - 0 yrs exp. as Super. before Springboro (and I would argue your point that there was a healthy waiting list for this job since Mr. Petrey was pretty much the only one and he was able to negotiate his own salary - and might I add he got what he wanted - kind of hypocritical if you ask me since he doesn't seem to want the teachers to negotiate any increases)
On the face of Todd Petrey exists two mouths, each of which speaks and repeats the agenda of the person directly in front of it.
The SEAs kool aid roster

Girard, OH

#25650 Jul 10, 2013
Dear Board of Education Members,

I am asking, as a taxpayer, parent and community member, for your to offer a fair contract with our dedicated teachers and settle immediately. I am aware of a contract that you are about to enter into with Huffmaster, which tells me you have not been negotiating with open minds or in good faith. Our teachers are just like all of us and deserve fair pay and a fair contract, after several years of going without an increase. Their dedication to our children's success and the success of our community should be reflected in the way our school board treats them.

Once again, I am asking that you settle with our teachers and lead our community and show the same respect for our teachers, that you request from all of us.

Sincerely,
Lynn Greenberg
The SEAs kool aid roster

Girard, OH

#25651 Jul 10, 2013
I want my voice to be heard in favor of a fair contract for Springboro teachers. I don't want to see our dedicated, passionate, excellent, teachers and administrators, with years of experience, who developed an award winning school district, EXCELLENCE WITH DISTINCTION, walk away from a fine community and supportive parents due to lack of support from the school board. Your recent actions seem very heavy handed and appear much more like a dictatorship than a democracy. I don't believe your actions represent the wishes/direction the majority in the school district nor do I think you are acting in our best interest.
Our teachers deserve a fair contract and I want to see the board work harder to negotiate fairly and in good faith.
Settle now.

Jackie D'Aurora
8714 Stonehill Ct.
Springboro, OH 45066
The SEAs kool aid roster

Girard, OH

#25652 Jul 10, 2013
Good Afternoon,

I can't believe your latest scheme to ruin this school district. Give the teachers a fair raise. There is not one of you who would work in your real world jobs 3 years without a raise so why do you expect our hard working teachers to? Any success that this school district has had in the last few years,(despite your efforts to destroy it) have been solely due to the teachers and the school level administrations. I can't wait until election time so I can vote you people out of office. I am going to talk to all my Republican and Democratic buddies too because this is ridiculous.

At least you have succeeded in two things. You have gotten people involved in the School System at a District level to combat the idiocy that you propose. You have also succeeded in solidifying the population in voting you out.

Smile,
Lisa Rose-Schell, registered voter
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#25653 Jul 11, 2013
The SEAs kool aid roster wrote:
I want my voice to be heard in favor of a fair contract for Springboro teachers. I don't want to see our dedicated, passionate, excellent, teachers and administrators, with years of experience, who developed an award winning school district, EXCELLENCE WITH DISTINCTION, walk away from a fine community and supportive parents due to lack of support from the school board. Your recent actions seem very heavy handed and appear much more like a dictatorship than a democracy. I don't believe your actions represent the wishes/direction the majority in the school district nor do I think you are acting in our best interest.
Our teachers deserve a fair contract and I want to see the board work harder to negotiate fairly and in good faith.
Settle now.
Jackie D'Aurora
8714 Stonehill Ct.
Springboro, OH 45066
Jackie,

What is "FAIR"? Would you please share your definition of what you mean by "FAIR"?

I believe we all want the same thing, a real education where our students learn enough to do better than pass just 42% of the questions on the Ohio Graduation Test. I think that most taxpayers in this community have much higher levels of expectation than that level demonstrates.

While your concern for the welfare of our teachers is most likely heart felt, where is the same concern for the 2000 plus children in this district who are not getting the education we the taxpayers are funding? Where is the activism for the children who fall further and further behind each year in a system that masks that failure with euphemisms like Proficient on state achievement tests?

If we don't care, who will?

Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#25654 Jul 11, 2013
The SEAs kool aid roster wrote:
Good Afternoon,
I can't believe your latest scheme to ruin this school district. Give the teachers a fair raise. There is not one of you who would work in your real world jobs 3 years without a raise so why do you expect our hard working teachers to? Any success that this school district has had in the last few years,(despite your efforts to destroy it) have been solely due to the teachers and the school level administrations. I can't wait until election time so I can vote you people out of office. I am going to talk to all my Republican and Democratic buddies too because this is ridiculous.
At least you have succeeded in two things. You have gotten people involved in the School System at a District level to combat the idiocy that you propose. You have also succeeded in solidifying the population in voting you out.
Smile,
Lisa Rose-Schell, registered voter
Lisa,

Most raises parsed out in the private sector are based primarily on the individual's value to the employing entity. Such things as time in service, attitude, attendance, and degree of difficulty of task required also factor into the final equation along with a host of other particulars for a given job. The present and future health of the employer is also taken into account to ensure the long term viability and sustainability of that employer.

I note in your plea for "fairness" for the teachers a lack of concern for 2000 plus children in our district that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding. You appear to be taken with the euphemisms surrounding the state achievement tests. The largest component of that rating is the number of children you can get to the Proficient rating on the state achievement assessments. The problem with that is the bar for proficiency is set laughably low.

Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.

8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.

Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066
wasting taxpayers money

Youngstown, OH

#25655 Jul 11, 2013
Mr.Wiedeman,

Please read the following article and tell me what excuse you have for wasting the taxpayers money on this! Couldn't the BOE used this money to put to the teachers requests in negotiations? Looks to me like another example of the greediness/egotistical thinking of this Board who aren't in it for our children but for their own personal agendas. November can't come quick enough because this Board is digging their own hole. This community has had enough.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153034696/Springbor...
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Lisa,
Most raises parsed out in the private sector are based primarily on the individual's value to the employing entity. Such things as time in service, attitude, attendance, and degree of difficulty of task required also factor into the final equation along with a host of other particulars for a given job. The present and future health of the employer is also taken into account to ensure the long term viability and sustainability of that employer.
I note in your plea for "fairness" for the teachers a lack of concern for 2000 plus children in our district that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding. You appear to be taken with the euphemisms surrounding the state achievement tests. The largest component of that rating is the number of children you can get to the Proficient rating on the state achievement assessments. The problem with that is the bar for proficiency is set laughably low.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066

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