Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31967 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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certainly worth repeating

Cleveland, OH

#25639 Jul 10, 2013
Truth to Power wrote:
<quoted text>
Springboro Education Association
50 South Main Street
Springboro OH 45066
All good parents and citizens of this Excellent Springboro School District -
Please do not hesitate to drop by our teachers' union headquarters to let them know your explicit feelings about the district's current hot-button subject.....
UNBRIDLED GREED.
Springboro Education Association
50 South Main Street
Springboro OH 45066

All good parents and citizens of this Excellent Springboro School District -
Please do not hesitate to drop by our teachers' union headquarters to let them know your explicit feelings about the district's current hot-button subject.....

UNBRIDLED GREED.
dont drink the kool aid

Cleveland, OH

#25640 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are these Tea Party folks? You honestly cannot with a straight face, ask that question.
The Tea Party represents America's last hope; or rather the last line of defense against a wave of rampant, destructive Obama-style social liberalism.
Twp resident

Cleveland, OH

#25641 Jul 10, 2013
You are wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
Teachers need a union because any wack job can get elected to the school board and then they make million dollar decisions for a district.
AH! So I take it this means you're throwing your hat into this fall's BOE race?
ultimatum

Cleveland, OH

#25642 Jul 10, 2013
NoTeaForMe wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.
I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
This "best and brightest teachers leaving" argument of yours is more than lame! Boro consistenly loses good teachers mediocre teachers and poor teachers for all the same reasons, the most popular typically being moving the family to another area to accomodate career adjustments of the family's primary breadwinner. Before you respond to that---please take into account Springboro's population growth rate in relation to Ohio's general decline in population, as well as the fact that Warren county is the 2nd fastest growing county in Ohio (after Delaware county).

Indeed, Springboro schools and Todd Petrey has a healthy waiting list of teachers to choose from, both younger, as well as older longer teaching histories.

We the parents and citizens of Springboro School District hereby demand the Springboro Education Association accept negotiation terms as outlined and set forth by the Springboro Board of Education.
Heart Burn

Atlanta, GA

#25643 Jul 10, 2013
NoTeaForMe wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.
I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
agenda first? What agenda would that be? Blue ribbons? Excellent with distinction? Children first? responsible fund raising? Busing for all students? Fair pay to play fees?

For the record...isn't your entire post one big rationalization and excuse making for Tammy Grigsby's personal vendetta/agenda?

And you actually "support" this personal agenda she is persuing against the entire district? Tsk tsk. I thought you were against personal agendas?

The double standards continually abound and amaze.

You women crack me up.
Experience vs cost

Dayton, OH

#25644 Jul 10, 2013
ultimatum wrote:
<quoted text>
This "best and brightest teachers leaving" argument of yours is more than lame! Boro consistenly loses good teachers mediocre teachers and poor teachers for all the same reasons, the most popular typically being moving the family to another area to accomodate career adjustments of the family's primary breadwinner. Before you respond to that---please take into account Springboro's population growth rate in relation to Ohio's general decline in population, as well as the fact that Warren county is the 2nd fastest growing county in Ohio (after Delaware county).
Indeed, Springboro schools and Todd Petrey has a healthy waiting list of teachers to choose from, both younger, as well as older longer teaching histories.
We the parents and citizens of Springboro School District hereby demand the Springboro Education Association accept negotiation terms as outlined and set forth by the Springboro Board of Education.
I guess we will have to wait and see what "teaching histories" will be hired into Springboro. My guess, there will be no one hired with much experience because experience costs. Just take a look at the District office - how much experience do we have there?
Superintendent - 0 yrs exp. as Super. before Springboro (and I would argue your point that there was a healthy waiting list for this job since Mr. Petrey was pretty much the only one and he was able to negotiate his own salary - and might I add he got what he wanted - kind of hypocritical if you ask me since he doesn't seem to want the teachers to negotiate any increases)
new HS Principal - 0 yrs exp. as Principal before Springboro
new SI Principal - 0 yrs exp. as Principal
new JR Principal - 0 yrs exp. as Principal
Curriculum lead - 0 yrs exp. as curriculum advisor (although I'll give her some credit that she was a principal)
Business Director - although he is leaving, he had 0 yrs exp. as a business director prior to being put into that position
HR director - 0 yrs exp. prior to her being put into this position
stop liberal tax n spend

Cleveland, OH

#25645 Jul 10, 2013
Dollars and Sense wrote:
The Springboro Board of Education President makes SENSE to me,
as stated in the Springboro Sun on July 4th.
"We have now completed an evaluation of the financial impact of the current SEA proposal. It exceeds the school district's available funds by more than $2 million in years one and two," Kohls said.
In other words, Springboro's teachers, represented by Springboro Education Association (SEA), are all about the creation of a perceived future need (future $2 million deficit), and then filling this perceived future need by way of attempting to shove another continuing levy down our collective throats!
Sheep

Lebanon, OH

#25647 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are these Tea Party folks? You honestly cannot with a straight face, ask that question.
Bankrupt and near bankrupt districts. Where are those?
Bargaining with the classified folks don't really stir people up, so of course that was easy to come to a settlement with them. The BOE really couldn't cause any fan fare with those negotiations.
Unfair is in the eye of the beholder.
Don't have much respect for those that clean up after you or feed you or get the kids to and from school safely do you?
Our classified staff do the unsung jobs day in and day out, to look down your nose at them sickens me.
Homeless

Atlanta, GA

#25648 Jul 10, 2013
OldManThacker wrote:
<quoted text>
Doug Wiedeman is being investigated for tax evasion, is he not?
Is it possible that you may have him confused with former BOE President Craig Colston?
yes man

Cleveland, OH

#25649 Jul 10, 2013
Experience vs cost wrote:
<quoted text>

Superintendent - 0 yrs exp. as Super. before Springboro (and I would argue your point that there was a healthy waiting list for this job since Mr. Petrey was pretty much the only one and he was able to negotiate his own salary - and might I add he got what he wanted - kind of hypocritical if you ask me since he doesn't seem to want the teachers to negotiate any increases)
On the face of Todd Petrey exists two mouths, each of which speaks and repeats the agenda of the person directly in front of it.
The SEAs kool aid roster

Cleveland, OH

#25650 Jul 10, 2013
Dear Board of Education Members,

I am asking, as a taxpayer, parent and community member, for your to offer a fair contract with our dedicated teachers and settle immediately. I am aware of a contract that you are about to enter into with Huffmaster, which tells me you have not been negotiating with open minds or in good faith. Our teachers are just like all of us and deserve fair pay and a fair contract, after several years of going without an increase. Their dedication to our children's success and the success of our community should be reflected in the way our school board treats them.

Once again, I am asking that you settle with our teachers and lead our community and show the same respect for our teachers, that you request from all of us.

Sincerely,
Lynn Greenberg
The SEAs kool aid roster

Cleveland, OH

#25651 Jul 10, 2013
I want my voice to be heard in favor of a fair contract for Springboro teachers. I don't want to see our dedicated, passionate, excellent, teachers and administrators, with years of experience, who developed an award winning school district, EXCELLENCE WITH DISTINCTION, walk away from a fine community and supportive parents due to lack of support from the school board. Your recent actions seem very heavy handed and appear much more like a dictatorship than a democracy. I don't believe your actions represent the wishes/direction the majority in the school district nor do I think you are acting in our best interest.
Our teachers deserve a fair contract and I want to see the board work harder to negotiate fairly and in good faith.
Settle now.

Jackie D'Aurora
8714 Stonehill Ct.
Springboro, OH 45066
The SEAs kool aid roster

Cleveland, OH

#25652 Jul 10, 2013
Good Afternoon,

I can't believe your latest scheme to ruin this school district. Give the teachers a fair raise. There is not one of you who would work in your real world jobs 3 years without a raise so why do you expect our hard working teachers to? Any success that this school district has had in the last few years,(despite your efforts to destroy it) have been solely due to the teachers and the school level administrations. I can't wait until election time so I can vote you people out of office. I am going to talk to all my Republican and Democratic buddies too because this is ridiculous.

At least you have succeeded in two things. You have gotten people involved in the School System at a District level to combat the idiocy that you propose. You have also succeeded in solidifying the population in voting you out.

Smile,
Lisa Rose-Schell, registered voter
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#25653 Jul 11, 2013
The SEAs kool aid roster wrote:
I want my voice to be heard in favor of a fair contract for Springboro teachers. I don't want to see our dedicated, passionate, excellent, teachers and administrators, with years of experience, who developed an award winning school district, EXCELLENCE WITH DISTINCTION, walk away from a fine community and supportive parents due to lack of support from the school board. Your recent actions seem very heavy handed and appear much more like a dictatorship than a democracy. I don't believe your actions represent the wishes/direction the majority in the school district nor do I think you are acting in our best interest.
Our teachers deserve a fair contract and I want to see the board work harder to negotiate fairly and in good faith.
Settle now.
Jackie D'Aurora
8714 Stonehill Ct.
Springboro, OH 45066
Jackie,

What is "FAIR"? Would you please share your definition of what you mean by "FAIR"?

I believe we all want the same thing, a real education where our students learn enough to do better than pass just 42% of the questions on the Ohio Graduation Test. I think that most taxpayers in this community have much higher levels of expectation than that level demonstrates.

While your concern for the welfare of our teachers is most likely heart felt, where is the same concern for the 2000 plus children in this district who are not getting the education we the taxpayers are funding? Where is the activism for the children who fall further and further behind each year in a system that masks that failure with euphemisms like Proficient on state achievement tests?

If we don't care, who will?

Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#25654 Jul 11, 2013
The SEAs kool aid roster wrote:
Good Afternoon,
I can't believe your latest scheme to ruin this school district. Give the teachers a fair raise. There is not one of you who would work in your real world jobs 3 years without a raise so why do you expect our hard working teachers to? Any success that this school district has had in the last few years,(despite your efforts to destroy it) have been solely due to the teachers and the school level administrations. I can't wait until election time so I can vote you people out of office. I am going to talk to all my Republican and Democratic buddies too because this is ridiculous.
At least you have succeeded in two things. You have gotten people involved in the School System at a District level to combat the idiocy that you propose. You have also succeeded in solidifying the population in voting you out.
Smile,
Lisa Rose-Schell, registered voter
Lisa,

Most raises parsed out in the private sector are based primarily on the individual's value to the employing entity. Such things as time in service, attitude, attendance, and degree of difficulty of task required also factor into the final equation along with a host of other particulars for a given job. The present and future health of the employer is also taken into account to ensure the long term viability and sustainability of that employer.

I note in your plea for "fairness" for the teachers a lack of concern for 2000 plus children in our district that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding. You appear to be taken with the euphemisms surrounding the state achievement tests. The largest component of that rating is the number of children you can get to the Proficient rating on the state achievement assessments. The problem with that is the bar for proficiency is set laughably low.

Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.

8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.

Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066
wasting taxpayers money

Cleveland, OH

#25655 Jul 11, 2013
Mr.Wiedeman,

Please read the following article and tell me what excuse you have for wasting the taxpayers money on this! Couldn't the BOE used this money to put to the teachers requests in negotiations? Looks to me like another example of the greediness/egotistical thinking of this Board who aren't in it for our children but for their own personal agendas. November can't come quick enough because this Board is digging their own hole. This community has had enough.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153034696/Springbor...
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Lisa,
Most raises parsed out in the private sector are based primarily on the individual's value to the employing entity. Such things as time in service, attitude, attendance, and degree of difficulty of task required also factor into the final equation along with a host of other particulars for a given job. The present and future health of the employer is also taken into account to ensure the long term viability and sustainability of that employer.
I note in your plea for "fairness" for the teachers a lack of concern for 2000 plus children in our district that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding. You appear to be taken with the euphemisms surrounding the state achievement tests. The largest component of that rating is the number of children you can get to the Proficient rating on the state achievement assessments. The problem with that is the bar for proficiency is set laughably low.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066
outsider

Dayton, OH

#25656 Jul 11, 2013
You know, the numbers don't mean what some of you think they mean. Test that are designed to measure proficiency across a large range as well as beyond what should be taught will have numbers that don't work with the normal A-B-C-D-F scale. They are not meant to.

My oldest child took a number of test in 2nd grade that were actually 3rd grade test because he had already maxed out the 2nd grade scores. Sometimes he got 10/30 on the 3rd grade test. Some of you would believe that to be an F and would say that it is a failure.

The way such testing works is to set it such that it would be expected that a post high school education would be the bar for a perfect score, with questions above and beyond what should be taught. In this way, proficient is what the target is, and would be the A range. The two levels above that mean that students are learning more than is required, and doing better than the state's goals.

The point is, these test are not written for the level they are given, but beyond that. I have no doubt my second grader could have passed the 3rd grade test last year. I wouldn't expect him to get advanced on the 3rd grade test, but he would certainly pass it.
Question Policy

Euclid, OH

#25657 Jul 11, 2013
"Lisa,
Most raises parsed out in the private sector are based primarily on the individual's value to the employing entity. Such things as time in service, attitude, attendance, and degree of difficulty of task required also factor into the final equation along with a host of other particulars for a given job. The present and future health of the employer is also taken into account to ensure the long term viability and sustainability of that employer.
I note in your plea for "fairness" for the teachers a lack of concern for 2000 plus children in our district that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding. You appear to be taken with the euphemisms surrounding the state achievement tests. The largest component of that rating is the number of children you can get to the Proficient rating on the state achievement assessments. The problem with that is the bar for proficiency is set laughably low.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
Doug Wiedeman
330 Wellington Way
Springboro, OH 45066"

When is this argument that our schools are failing going to go away????? This is a standardized test! It is set up so the "average student" answers half the questions correctly. If this were not the case, how could a student make more than a year's progress in one year? This continual posting of misleading information is harmful and I have grown weary of seeing this post over and over and over and over again - it is fueling the myth that our schools are failing. Is there room for improvement? Of course! Are we failing? Absolutely not!
Heart Burn

Atlanta, GA

#25658 Jul 11, 2013
wasting taxpayers money wrote:
Mr.Wiedeman,
Please read the following article and tell me what excuse you have for wasting the taxpayers money on this! Couldn't the BOE used this money to put to the teachers requests in negotiations? Looks to me like another example of the greediness/egotistical thinking of this Board who aren't in it for our children but for their own personal agendas. November can't come quick enough because this Board is digging their own hole. This community has had enough.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/153034696/Springbor...
<quoted text>
I think the point you may be missing in your zeal to use buzz words such as greedy, egotistical, and personal agendas amongst others to describe this BOE is that the community had had enough of the SEA/Baker BOE that never met a levy they didn't like. The Trifiros, Colstons, Thomsens, et al that never did their homework, never looked at ways to budget responsibly, they simply told us we were running over a financial cliff if we didn't pay more and more in property taxes to be able to give yearly out of touch raises to teachers, to give generous step raises, to pay 90% of their health care benefits while paying 35% of our own. And their solutions to these failed levy requests to cut services to the kids, require high pay to play fees.

THAT is what this community has had enough of and finally voted in BOE members that are willing to do their homework, ask the hard questions, come up with responsible budgets, be responsible to not just the kids, staff, but to the community as a whole.

And thank goodness this BOE has the backbone to take the crap thrown at them by a very small, but loud minority of this community and union outsiders with very personal agendas.

But back to the question Mr Weideman asked:

What is a fair contract?

And

What is unfair about the contract the BOE has offered?

Please be specific.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#25659 Jul 11, 2013
wasting taxpayers money wrote:
Mr.Wiedeman,
Please read the following article and tell me what excuse you have for wasting the taxpayers money on this! Couldn't the BOE used this money to put to the teachers requests in negotiations? Looks to me like another example of the greediness/egotistical thinking of this Board who aren't in it for our children but for their own personal agendas. November can't come quick enough because this Board is digging their own hole. This community has had enough.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/153034696/Springbor...
<quoted text>
It would be irresponsible to not consider all possible outcomes and develop contingency plans should they be required.

This is a simple matter of performing unpleasant duties while in office. To shirk from them would not be in the best interest of any parties involved.

It would be a pity to see money spent in this fashion, but if the teachers feel that there is no other alternative and their working and pay conditions are too onerous a burden to bear any longer, then it is up to the teachers to decide what is in their best interest.

It is incumbent upon the school board to prepare for as many possible outcomes as will be evident or feasible.

Money lost in a strike is never made up by anyone, it and the time wasted on it are gone forever.

Politicizing this folly at the expense of our children, parents, taxpayers, and staff will be an even greater tragedy.

Remember that retirees will still be receiving their checks while those on the picket line go without an income.

How many have the financial reserves and credit to go two or three months without a paycheck?

And how long will it take to dig yourself out of a financial hole that large? Months? Years?

In the best of circumstances for the teachers an new union friendly board could be elected, then the union could negotiate with union members. While that would be great for the union, it would be disaster for the community wallet.

And there is no guarantee that your cause will prevail at the polls, the community may not see you in the same light come election day, they may opt for civilian control of our schools.

These were just some musings of mine and reflect only my opinion and not the owners of this station or blog.

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