Dear old friend who's nursing grudge won't let go of pain

Full story: Chicago Tribune

DEAR ABBY: When I recently moved to Ohio , I left behind a group of dear friends.
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Dienne

Chicago, IL

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#1
Feb 13, 2008
 
Re: LW3: Good golly, what is this 1952? Not only has the term "bastard" gone out of style, but so has the term "legitimate" (or "illegitimate"). It shouldn't matter if your parents were married or what, if you are a human being, you are legitimate. The civil rights movement was all about getting past judging people for circumstances which they had no control over.

Since: Aug 07

Evanston

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#2
Feb 13, 2008
 
Dienne,

Abby didn't volunteer the term, the writer asked. And since the writer asked the answer is yes.

If the writers father was not married to the mother, then they are a b*****d.

That said, I agree with you that the term is outmoded, and I agree with Abby that it is not important and the writer should not be worried about it.
Dienne

Chicago, IL

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#3
Feb 13, 2008
 
I just noticed this - the article itself uses the term b.astard, but the censor blocks that word out. Cute.

And to Bankerdanny: Abby did volunteer the term "legitimate" - the LW used the term "b.astard". Rather than just clarifying the "correct" term, Abby's answer should have been along the lines of, "Oh, my heavens, the whole concept of "legitimacy" went out with the poodle skirt. Please don't judge yourself or others on the basis of circumstances of birth which are beyond one's control."
Rational

United States

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#4
Feb 13, 2008
 
Well, the term may be outmoded, the idea that someone born out of wedlock isn't legitimate may also be dead however I don't like that Abby tried to make him feel better and basically lied to him. Technically (for what the guy was asking) he was born of an "illigitimate" union. THEY were not married, his mother was married to another man, therefore, he is a B A R S T A R D!! Not trying to be mean, just stating the truth is all.
steph

United States

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#5
Feb 13, 2008
 
The sad fact remains, though, that some people STILL do use that word and still hold it against kids. Depressing, but true.

But if we're going to talk about it, I agree with others--I thought only the "real" father could "legitimate" a birth.
MLM

Chicago Heights, IL

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#6
Feb 13, 2008
 
My curiousity is about the second one, why kids can't look past their own problems and just be happy when their parents find someone else. I'd say they should both sit down and have a talk with her and find out why she won't just be happy for them, and reassure her of things.
Dienne

Chicago, IL

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#7
Feb 13, 2008
 
Rational wrote:
Well, the term may be outmoded, the idea that someone born out of wedlock isn't legitimate may also be dead however I don't like that Abby tried to make him feel better and basically lied to him. Technically (for what the guy was asking) he was born of an "illigitimate" union. THEY were not married, his mother was married to another man, therefore, he is a B A R S T A R D!! Not trying to be mean, just stating the truth is all.
To whatever extent the concept is still valid, I'd rather be a b.astard than illegitimate. If you're not a legitimate person, what are you? An animal?
lynn

Brighton, MA

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#8
Feb 13, 2008
 
Rational wrote:
Well, the term may be outmoded, the idea that someone born out of wedlock isn't legitimate may also be dead however I don't like that Abby tried to make him feel better and basically lied to him. Technically (for what the guy was asking) he was born of an "illigitimate" union. THEY were not married, his mother was married to another man, therefore, he is a B A R S T A R D!! Not trying to be mean, just stating the truth is all.
Oh really? His parents were married when he was conceived. Who is on his birth cert? the man who impregnated his mother or her husband?

By your logic, if a child is the product of sperm donation does that make them a B*** or illegitimate? Clearly the mother was not married to the sperm donor.

(and I hope we all agree that this is just silly....)
BumbleBee

United States

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#9
Feb 13, 2008
 
lynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really? His parents were married when he was conceived. Who is on his birth cert? the man who impregnated his mother or her husband?
By your logic, if a child is the product of sperm donation does that make them a B*** or illegitimate? Clearly the mother was not married to the sperm donor.
(and I hope we all agree that this is just silly....)
Lynn...What you said was exactly right!
Rational

United States

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#10
Feb 13, 2008
 
lynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really? His parents were married when he was conceived. Who is on his birth cert? the man who impregnated his mother or her husband?
By your logic, if a child is the product of sperm donation does that make them a B*** or illegitimate? Clearly the mother was not married to the sperm donor.
(and I hope we all agree that this is just silly....)
No,

by the logic of how a bars t ar d is defined. It is a baby (son) born of an affair out of wedlock. Had she been married to THAT man the son would have been quote unquote legitimate. Dont get upset with me for pointing out facts. I didn't say I agree with the terminology or anything like that, I am simply stating a FACT. If you don't like the facts thats fine but you can't deny them. You are taking a position against me for it.

B a s t a r d is defined as and I quote "a child born to parents who are not married to each other"

Case closed. If you want to argue the merits of a child being "legitimate" or the use of the word thats another thing and I am sure I would agree with you, however, by its very definition this man is in fact a _ a s ta rd. Thats the question he asked, thats what he wanted to know, he didn't ask her to moralize it for him, he didn't ask her to tenderize and give it a happy name, he asked a question that was a simple yes or no answer and by the definition of what one is, he fits, therefore Abby lied to him. Just because she doesnt like the term does NOT mean that he isn't what he asked.

Thank you
Rational

United States

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#11
Feb 13, 2008
 
lynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really? His parents were married when he was conceived. Who is on his birth cert? the man who impregnated his mother or her husband?
By your logic, if a child is the product of sperm donation does that make them a B*** or illegitimate? Clearly the mother was not married to the sperm donor.
(and I hope we all agree that this is just silly....)
It makes them an illegitimate b a s t a r d.

:)

Dont get mad at me for what the definition entails. I didnt make it up, nor do I go around using it. My nephew was born out of wedlock and he he is a great kid who has had no contact with his biological father, so technically he is one too, but I dont use the word.
Rational

United States

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#12
Feb 13, 2008
 
Dienne wrote:
<quoted text>
To whatever extent the concept is still valid, I'd rather be a b.astard than illegitimate. If you're not a legitimate person, what are you? An animal?
:)

Well said. They are just terms whose time has come to be done.
lynn

Brighton, MA

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#13
Feb 13, 2008
 
Rational wrote:
<quoted text>
No,
by the logic of how a bars t ar d is defined....
B a s t a r d is defined as and I quote "a child born to parents who are not married to each other"
Case closed..
Not closed... if his father (The one who was married to his mother) is listed on his birth cert as his father then he was born to parents who were married.

Again, a sperm donor is not married to the mother so by your reading of the definition all babies born from sperm donors (or egg donors) are bastards?
sarahmas

Irvine, CA

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#14
Feb 13, 2008
 
Love child.. bwa ha ha! Thank you Diana Ross!

Abby is so hopelessly out of touch with the 21st century. Her responses to people are hilarious.
Barbara

Milwaukee, WI

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#15
Feb 13, 2008
 
I DESPISE the term "love child". By using that term it essentially degrades all children who are born to legitimately married people into "non-love" children. According to law, a bstard is a child born to parents who are not married: use proper terminology.
lynn

Brighton, MA

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#16
Feb 13, 2008
 
And why do people even still use these words?really, are these things still talked about?
Rational

United States

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#17
Feb 13, 2008
 
lynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Not closed... if his father (The one who was married to his mother) is listed on his birth cert as his father then he was born to parents who were married.
Again, a sperm donor is not married to the mother so by your reading of the definition all babies born from sperm donors (or egg donors) are bastards?
Lynn, we can argue this until we are blue in the face but the facts are that the definition (again, go look the definition up) state that he is a bast ard. I don't care that she was married to another man. Also we dont know whose name is on his birth certificate so now you are hypothesizing and making assumptions. Its very possible that that is exactly how he knows he is not the son of his mothers husband! But even if the guy she is married to is on the birth certificate it doesnt matter because thats not his dad that she is married too. I dont care what you want to say about sperm donor BS or whatever. The definition is crude, its a crude term but it is what it is. Can I ask, are you holding onto this position so dearly because you are a person who was born one of these ways and you have a beef with the definition? If so thats cool but the definition is what it is. You can say "no 2 plus 2 is not 4" all you want but at the end of the day it always is!

Anyway, done with this I guess you can lead a horse to water but..........
Moon

Portland, OR

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#18
Feb 13, 2008
 
The term varied from state to state, as do many laws. Some places if the mother is married it matters not if her husband is the father of the baby. Some states never recognized the concept of illegitimacy.

In this day and age it's an outmoded concept.
Moon

Portland, OR

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#19
Feb 13, 2008
 
Rational wrote:
Well, the term may be outmoded, the idea that someone born out of wedlock isn't legitimate may also be dead however I don't like that Abby tried to make him feel better and basically lied to him. Technically (for what the guy was asking) he was born of an "illigitimate" union. THEY were not married, his mother was married to another man, therefore, he is a B A R S T A R D!! Not trying to be mean, just stating the truth is all.
Whether it is 'truth' depends on the law in his state.
It all depends on where you are.
(unless you are speaking strictly in the old-fashioned Mrs Grundy the busybody sense)
As a legal term it varies from place to place.
If the LW wants to really know he needs to check his own state's laws (or whatever it would be) and see what it says.
Some places if a woman is married when she gets pregnant the baby is not a bastard. Others she must be married to the father. Others don't even consider the concept at all.
lynn

Brighton, MA

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#20
Feb 13, 2008
 
Rational wrote:
<quoted text>
Lynn, we can argue this until we are blue in the face but the facts are that the definition (again, go look the definition up) state that he is a bast ard. I don't care that she was married to another man. Also we dont know whose name is on his birth certificate so now you are hypothesizing and making assumptions. Its very possible that that is exactly how he knows he is not the son of his mothers husband! But even if the guy she is married to is on the birth certificate it doesnt matter because thats not his dad that she is married too. I dont care what you want to say about sperm donor BS or whatever. The definition is crude, its a crude term but it is what it is. Can I ask, are you holding onto this position so dearly because you are a person who was born one of these ways and you have a beef with the definition? If so thats cool but the definition is what it is. You can say "no 2 plus 2 is not 4" all you want but at the end of the day it always is!
Anyway, done with this I guess you can lead a horse to water but..........
not holding on to it, just argueing a point. Your definition (And websters) says exactly what you said "child born to parents not married", but point is that a child's parents can be defined as who is listed on the birth cert. if they are married then by definition the child is not a B or illegit.(oh look 2+2 does = 4)

As someone else pointed out, who can go on the birth cert varies from state to state.

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