Wanted: Property owners with Dayton Water Dept disputes

Posted in the Xenia Forum

Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#1 Aug 27, 2012
If you own property in Dayton (or Montgomery County), you get water from the Dayton Water Department. There is information you urgently need, especially if you rent your property out. You may think a lease protects you - it does not. Your investment could literally go down the drain and you have no recourse, none.

I'm preparing a class action suit claiming gross negligence against DWD and have compelling evidence in my favor. If you have been screwed over by DWD; are "Mad as Hell and not going to take it anymore" and want to discuss joining in, please reply here and post your issues.
Mr Spock

Dayton, OH

#2 Aug 27, 2012
Legitimate lawsuits and attorneys do not need to advertize on forums.
Your comments are deliberately vague and nebulous, your name likely an alias.
Leaving personal information here will likely result in the person being stalked by others on this forum.
Dennis Gannon

Loveland, OH

#3 Aug 27, 2012
Mr Spock wrote:
Legitimate lawsuits and attorneys do not need to advertize on forums.
Your comments are deliberately vague and nebulous, your name likely an alias.
Leaving personal information here will likely result in the person being stalked by others on this forum.
Stalkers, like you, of course
Dennis Gannon

Loveland, OH

#4 Aug 27, 2012
Why live in Dayton anyhow? You can just wait for your dad to die and live in his house for free!
Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#5 Aug 28, 2012
Please know that I am not an attorney advertising for any business. I own property in Montgomery County, specifically Eastern Hills in Dayton. The Dayton Water Department suggests to the public that it acts like a private business. It does not. If this were Steve's Water Company, Steve would be in prison. Numerous problems starting with the fact that anyone can get residential services by phone with no deposit or application.

If you rent your property, you are at tremendous risk of losing it all. All per the DWD own Rules and Regulations.

I'm looking for other property owners who have a complaint about their water bill and the reaction (or lack of it) from the DWD.

btw: Mr Spock let's be more careful about accusations over alias names, then we can all prosper
Mr Spock

Dayton, OH

#6 Aug 28, 2012
'Mr. Schumacher', a bit of legal advice. You can only file a "class action suit" when the class cannot be named. In other words, there are so many people affected the individuals cannot be specifically identified. Should you get any takers from this posting of yours, you will be advised that each of you must file a separate suit.

Regarding aliases, they are necessary here.
Dennis and Brenda

El Monte, CA

#7 Aug 28, 2012
Mr Spock wrote:
'Mr. Schumacher', a bit of legal advice. You can only file a "class action suit" when the class cannot be named. In other words, there are so many people affected the individuals cannot be specifically identified. Should you get any takers from this posting of yours, you will be advised that each of you must file a separate suit.
Regarding aliases, they are necessary here.
we use real names!
Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#8 Aug 29, 2012
The specific class is those property owners who lease residencal property served by separate water meters. There must be several thousand such owners and no easy way to determine them. All county property owners who are served by Dayton Water will benefit. The negligent acts are magnified when it comes to rental properties.

An example: one would expect and be entitled to an clear, concise and accurate bill in a time way. The DWD invoice is unnecessarily complex, dense and vague. Quick, how many gallons of water did you consume last month? But water is billed every 3 months, so again how much water did you use? Is quarterly timely enough? Especially when dealing with tenants?

While you check your last bill and get out your calculator, I'll add that I appreciate any advice but would refrain from accepting any so-called legal or medical or financial advice from any bulletin/discussion board.

I've retained a real estate attorney and we're pursuing on several specific negligent acts. The intention was to find others who have similar experiences with DWD.

MUST be others upset.... why do ya think everyone on 3rd & Ludlow at Water works behind bullet proof glass?
Mr Spock

Dayton, OH

#9 Aug 29, 2012
If you have retained an attorney he would have placed an ad in the newspaper asking for unidentified class members to come forward. He would not have advised you to advertize here. He would have advised you to say nothing here. Even more specifically, the suit would have already been filed since the class need not be identified first.
Either you have a very poor attorney or you are not telling the truth.

If you have a suggestion for improving the water deparment's billing statement, I suggest you take it to the city manager's office or the water dept. directly. You don't change billing statements with lawsuits.
You don't need to bring an AK47 to a turkey shoot.
Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#10 Aug 31, 2012
The point is not to improve the water bill through legal action. The issue is gross negligence of which the invoice is a part. Their practices and policies encourage vagueness. The DWD can guess the service charges up to 4 times a year. That doesn't provide much accuracy to the property owner. You expect accurate bills from your other monthly services, monthly.

My interest is in contacting Dayton property owners who rent residential property and who have complaints about their city water services. If your tenants have left you in a dispute with the DWD, there's help available.

The DWD has a so-called Review Board which handles between 5-7 complaints a month. That's at least 60 people determined enough to make it through the review process to even get to the star chamber of appeals. To reach a few of these owners, we're using whatever means we can. This forum is far more immediate and interactive than a posting in the Dayton Daily News (sadly decreasing readership).

For one to suggest an absolute either or without knowing more doesn't seem logical. Good attorney, true story. If you like what comes out of your tap and how it got there and you own private real estate in Dayton that you *do not* rent out, then your not involved and might be happier in another topic.

The DWD seems to have a supporter dispensing legal advice with a Vulcan identity, not a wise practice.
I'm glad for the participation and would like to hear from others.
Mr Spock

Dayton, OH

#11 Aug 31, 2012
You keep changing your stated purpose and you don't need a lawsuit to change any of the things you mention.
You clearly have not contacted an attorney. You are not being honest about your presence here.
Max Schumacher

Xenia, OH

#12 Sep 20, 2012
Same purpose: are you a local landlord who's tenant stuck you with a water/sewer bill from the Dayton Water Co? If so, I'd like to talk with you.

I'm totally honest about all that's written here.

You must be a Renter, Spockish.

You, Spocky seem obsessed over imagined lies, a serious condition. Why haunt message boards when you have no skin in the game?

If you are giving out legal advice and you are NOT a lawyer, you're in deep crap. if you are an attorney and handing out legal advice, you're in deeper crap. Free advice from a lawyer, they'll disbar you in a heartbeat, shame on you Spockness.

Landlords with tenants who left an unpaid water bills are welcome to reply.
Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#13 Oct 19, 2012
If anyone missed the Tuesday print edition of the Dayton Daily News, here's an interesting link that's relevant to this discussion:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...

Please contact Andrew Tobias via his article link if you can relate a similar encounter with the Dayton Water Dept.

Something stinks at the Water Company. Enjoy your day.
masterofconcrete pourers

Loveland, OH

#14 Oct 19, 2012
Well, Max, probably the simple fact it's one guy doing the work while the other 4 watch. That's typical bureaucratic BS. Happens everywhere

Are you going to sue all municipalities?
Max Schumacher

Bellbrook, OH

#15 Oct 25, 2012
Yes, MCP - your on-site math is about right. Add in managers and manager's managers and it becomes quite an empire in every sense. So many other property owners have responded to Mr. Hamilton's situation, that the Dayton Daily News is doing a follow-up. Stay tuned and contribute if you can.

Sue all muni's? No, most cities that have a water department tie-in issue monthly bills clearly showing consumption in gallons; and, they keep the true property owner in the loop. In all cases, this is ultimately a matter of corporate negligence against the public.
Fake Lawyer Schmacher

Dayton, OH

#16 Oct 25, 2012
Max Schumacher wrote:
Yes, MCP - your on-site math is about right. Add in managers and manager's managers and it becomes quite an empire in every sense. So many other property owners have responded to Mr. Hamilton's situation, that the Dayton Daily News is doing a follow-up. Stay tuned and contribute if you can.
Sue all muni's? No, most cities that have a water department tie-in issue monthly bills clearly showing consumption in gallons; and, they keep the true property owner in the loop. In all cases, this is ultimately a matter of corporate negligence against the public.
"Corporate negligence"? A city is a corporation? Since when?

Since when is a billing error the fault of the UNION MEMBERS repairing water lines?
Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#17 Oct 29, 2012
FLS, please know that in Ohio, ALL Cities are by definition, incorporated as municipal corporations. See here for more: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/703

It's what makes a place a village or a city. In Ohio the minimum number of people needed to incorporate as a village is 1,600. If this village grows to 5,000 residents it automatically becomes a "city". Both cities and villages (incorporated and unincorporated) exist within Townships. If this new city grows beyond the township borders, the township government ceases to exist.

Tylersville is an unincorporated village (so far), College Corner is an incorporated village, and Trenton is a city as it has more than 5,000 residents.

No one is blaming Union Members for billing errors. This is not about the men and women on the line, but rather their unresponsive and negligent management layers and decisions. Too many folks with fancy titles and no authority making too many excuses. The DDN/Channel 7 Investigative Team is preparing a huge story on this issue.

Contribute your stories and enjoy your day!
Max Schumacher

Dayton, OH

#18 Nov 7, 2012
The News is good. More and more water victims are coming forward. There is strength in numbers, enough property owners with the same issue can change things at any level. The more truthful statement is "You can't fight City Hall - alone."

The modern way to publicize is social media like Topix combined with conventional reporting. The more explosive angle to this story has not yet been heard. There will be names and phone numbers given for every citizen involved as a responsible employee of the Dayton Water Department so you can independently verify "the rest of the story".
landman

Dayton, OH

#19 Feb 22, 2014
I too have had some issues with the way the city handles water billing. such as them knowing full well the water is off at the curb and they bill with cleptocratic abandon saying that we charge for the meter not the water usage, which also has a "minimum billing". and the fee for trash toters long ago stolen or collected. organized crime should be this well organized behind such a front.$30.00 every time they send a shut off notice? how many times does it take for a city employee to get the valve closed. The world may never know. solve the tootsie pop mystery first I guess.

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