Our position: Florida needs a retooled economy because growth c...

Florida's not the magnet it once was. Not when there are places like Wyoming, Delaware, Louisiana, Tennessee, Oklahoma and New Mexico growing faster than Florida did in the year that ended July 1. The numbers ...

[SentinelBlather]

We want to thank Jane Healy and her editorial writers for continuing to be lazy and confused. Jane has a sub-heading “Florida needs a retooled economy ..“ and then never mentions what Florida needs to do to retool. What kind of jobs do we need? Nice going Jane.

Then look back a few months. Jane and her group wrote editorial after editorial about sprawling growth and their hatred for developers who contribute to political campaigns. They wrote about water shortages and encroaching on the habitat of the scrub jay. If there ever was a staff against growth the Sentinel has them.

Now Jane Healy and her group are concerned that Florida’s growth was only the 19th fastest growing of all the states. This is double talk if it ever existed. She thinks commuter rail will help. I have never read an article where the Sentinel asked locals if they will give up their auto for commuter rail. Nationally most commuter rail serves about 5% of the population and does not earn enough revenue to pay costs. She wants cities to expand upward instead of outward. I don’t want to live in a 30 story condo with high monthly association dues. I want a single family home with a yard. But she did get in her global warming non-sense about eroding coastlines and harsher and more frequent hurricanes. Eroding coastlines have happened my entire life even on the Great Lakes and before global warming became a scare tactic. Did she mention the National Weather Service did not learn how to measure hurricane winds until 1984.

Some news from up north. 50% of New Jersey residents say taxes are so high they will leave the state as soon as possible. 20% say they will move to Florida. Western NY State has large tax problems. A family of 4 earning $70,000 per year pays over $3700 in state income taxes after deductions. Homes valued at $100,000 pay over $4800 in property taxes. The sales tax is 8.25%. Yes property insurance is under $500.
Electricity in western NY is more expensive than Florida and they generate large kilowatts from Niagara Falls. They wonder why the 25 to 39 age group with families is leaving New York State.

Next year when Florida has a rise in population growth I wonder what Jane Healy will write.

[Speedy Gonzalez]

I totally agree with Sentinel Blather. And the reason people don't want to come here it the quality of life. Also, look at the quality of workmanship of the homes for sale here compared to other states and the prices. We have block after block of these cheap monopoly houses selling for way too much in overcrowded areas, crappy roads, too many Spanish (sorry guys) and crime. People were coming here because they could get more bang for their buck. They are finding out now that there isn't much bang anymore because our prices in housing and in taxes are rising and the quality that people get for those higher prices just aren't worth it. They can get better elsewhere. Jane says something in her article about higher crime up North? What is she talking about? People here are complaining and our northern neighbors are listening and not coming here.

[Charlie Tuna]

A little observation to help illustrate this point.. Take a drive down Orange Avenue and look at the tall buildings on both sides. You see banks, you see insurance companies, you see City, County and Federal Government buildings. Nowhere is there a big private retail or wholesale or manufacturing center. You see condos, but where are the people who make the widgets ? Where are the hard goods needed to run America? Where are the small shops, the skilled artisans that make the watches, the hinges, the brackets, the nails, the screws, the safety pins, the pens, pencils, paper, glue, scissors, knives,[Ingagine in your most vivid mind this list reaching the floor, rolling out the door into the street] We don't have that anymore because somebody decided we should put our people out of jobs and let everyone else in the world do that while our people are supposed to be content to feel good about "World Poverty" ?[Well I did my part - I'm unemployed now]. Wow what a feeling of warmth and satisfacion that is.

[Dataperson]

Florida sold itself as the retirement state because it had no income tax, it used to have cheap condos, it had year round golf (well, in South Florida, at least)and no snow. The state partnered with huge developers who recruited neighborhoods of retirees to move to South Florida country club condos with golf courses.

In exchange, the huge developers got 'special districts' set up to take care of water, sewer, etc., without having to work with local governments about issues like roads.

Part way through the paving of our paradise, the 'Father of Growth Management', Dr. DeGrove, convinced the Legislature to pass the Growth Management Act that was supposed to link any further growth to availability of road capacity, sewer line capacity, and so on - the famous 'concurrency' requirement.

Dr. DeGrove either didn't understand that real live downtowns, like Sanford's, don't WANT to widen their roads, but that's a discussion for another posting.

The already existing huge developments continued to pour cars onto roads that were already in a service deficit condition. Dr. DeGrove counted on the 'services tax' to help local governments catch up on the services that the huge developers of country club condos had not previously been made to provide, like road improvements outside their gated communities.

Of course, we all know what happened to the services tax. It was going to tax newspaper advertising, so zillions of editorials were launched against it, insisting it would tax doctor appointments (it would not have. Those were exempt services.)

The Legislature got rid of the services tax but left concurrency in place. That meant that the result of the Growth Management Act was the very thing it was supposed to prevent: sprawl development. Development went where road capacity was still available: ag land.

Florida's best bet is to stop basing its economy on attracting retirees altogether, and start focusing on the alternative energy needs of the nation. Stop plowing under what remains of our once productive ag lands to create new towns like Celebration that no one can afford, or new retiree country clubs that the next batch of retirees don't want, anyway (one reason why our growth is slowing).

Start providing incentives to ag interests to switch from citrus groves destroyed by canker to switchgrass and other alternative fuel sources.

Don't continue to just provide incentives to medical research firms that are going to leave when they find our schools don't meet their needs. Look at the energy sector.

Provide incentives to energy companies committed to buying excess energy generated from farms, or creating alternative fuels that can be sold from pumping stations at our major interchanges. If we can require gas stations to maintain generators so they can pump fuel when electricity is off line, we can require them to provide pumps for alternative fuels, too.

Attract American car companies willing to build flex fuel car engines that will run on our new fuels.

With all the new jobs this will generate, population growth will again increase - but it will be more of a population that is working age, not just heavily oriented toward a retirement population that will inevitably need less costly housing and more tax-exempt nursing home and hospital facilities in future.

No state should hitch its economic future to markets that are limited. Florida's emphasis on tourism, retirement and construction all fail as soon as the economy cools off. Energy is a necessity regardless of the health of the economy. That's where our future should be.

[Jammer]

One thing is for sure, Florida is not the same as it was 25 years ago or 10 years ago for that matter. The politians and developers have ruined our state, taxes are too high and the same holds true for insurance. I see myself and the family working here another 10 years (if that long) and retiring to TN or NM. Most of my friends have already left for TN, GA and other states. The only things that will save this state are getting rid of all the state legislators and clear out Tallahassee then start over. Now that's what I call a retooled economy.....

[Basic Cable]

Jammer wrote:

The only things that will save this state are getting rid of all the state legislators and clear out Tallahassee then start over. Now that's what I call a retooled economy.....

I think that is a wonderful idea !!!!!

[FreeRider-Dayton a]

Naturally it's less in FL then NY or Chicago etc. Retirees in FL don't move to those areas. They've been moving to SD, MT, WY, TN, OK, GA, NC where it's alot cheaper to live & even healthier. We research first where it's less to live, no income tax & etc. FL has lost & is losing what they "want" to lose--thousands who aren't rich & the less fortunate who make $7.00 to #10.00 an hour. Politicians & the new Governor are getting what they want.

[FreeRider-Dayton a]

If you want to call the Orlando Sentinel's 800# from Daytona Beach they also outsource to another country & it was hard undertanding them.

[Mark]

BOLD, EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.

With the exception of House Speaker Marco Rubio, state leadership doesn't exist. Look at local Dan Webster for example.

He did everything he could to pander to state teachers unions, local government politicians and the well healed lobbyists paid for with property tax dollars by municipal and county government officials to block any meaningful property tax reform.

We live in a state that depends on visitors to pay much of the freight.

But in the wisdom of Webster, Charlie Crist and the rest of the State Senate, ensuing these people will conitnue to come here, spend their dollars and make our lives less expensive is lost in their pandering.

As long as Save Our Home discriminates against non-homesteaded second homes and investment properties - the people that pay over 50% of our local taxes are going elsewhere.

Until Save Our Home is replaced with a sales tax that eliminates property taxes in Florida forever - we will continue to see the state's demise.

Crist is a one termer. Webster should have been replaced a long time ago. Wake up Floridians - this is our state - and we are only hurting oursselves.

[Orlando Truth]

Mark is right. We need to understand that discrimination hurts in all ways.

Discriminating with property taxes is killing our golden goose - the people that buy here and only stay part of the year and use VERY LITTLE GOVERNMENT SERVICES.

Second home owners don't have kids in our schools - the biggest tax cost we all bear. But Save Our Home is driving them away.

We are not only driving these people away - those of us that stay here are going to have to pay the increased costs. Our TAXES ARE GOING UP.

Repeal Save Our Home and replace it with a sales tax. Vote no on the referendum and sign a petition before it is so bad in Florida that e can't give our homes away.

[Florida Guy]

Since "Mark" and "Orlando Truth" are the same person, the comment, intelligent though it is, is still one person's

Trying to create your own groundswell?

[Fed up]

People have to work somewhere..We have to build something other than houses. All the money made here goes to Disney and Universal...They pay minimum wages to most of the workers...all the money made here leaves here..

[stephen]

I have commented on this subject before. The quality of life for working people is not good in Orlando. A high cost of living with a low wage base makes it very hard for the working class to live here. Sure you can try to recruit rich retirees but some one still has to do the work that runs a community. As services and congestion gets worst even those rich retirees do not want to live here. I think if we have not reach the end of growth as a engine to enrich the already rich in Florida at the expense of the working class we are close. The old paradigm is ending. One of the leading indicators is the declining population of school age children in many Florida citys and countys. That is happening because working class people are leaving or not coming to Florida.

[winterland]

I agree with most comments as a northerner I too thought this would be an ideal place to live because of the greenery and beauty of the state. I've been here for over a year and am desparately trying to find a way out of this state. There are no options whatsoever here I never understood how you cannot have public transportation what happens if your car breaks down and you can't afford right away to have it fixed (not to mention the prices they charge for that) also a lot of small businesses trying to get off the ground is closing. Cable, telephone, electric etc are all monopolized by one particular company and that's never good. It seems to me that those who are from here are satisfied with 7-8 dollars an hour pay which is truly sad. Florida needs more fortune 500 corporations willing to place businesses here but that won't happen because of the (big boys in Tally) When the time is right Florida will be a distant memory for me.

[BuckStripes]

...Perhaps it is not the economy which needs retooling--but our Florida mentality. A little more basic (all-around)integrity might also help...
...Home is where the heart is, a notion which politicos and editorialists do not grasp. So, it's up to The People to get the idea across: Florida is supposed to be a place where people feel good about living--Not just a workplace operated for the benefit of our ruling government and business elite...
...People are creatures with human instincts. They are not economic ciphers, who exist on bread alone...

[Mo Lubee]

Retooled? Yeah, we've been working on that; a lot of tools from up North move to Florida constantly. In fact, it's rapidly coming to a point where we are overloaded with these tools from up North.

Are there any western states out there that might be willing to take in a few million tools from up North, mostly New Yorkers?

They'll be a great help to you, because New Yorker tools know everything. You'll have to excuse their wives though, they tend to be big-mouthed over-aggressive rude super-feminist spike-heeled tool boxes.

[pat of cocoa]

When the baby boomers start retiring in droves they will come here.That will be floridians a chance to sell and move on to other states. But were will you move?

[Jammer]

Mark wrote:

BOLD, EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.
With the exception of House Speaker Marco Rubio, state leadership doesn't exist. Look at local Dan Webster for example.
He did everything he could to pander to state teachers unions, local government politicians and the well healed lobbyists paid for with property tax dollars by municipal and county government officials to block any meaningful property tax reform.
We live in a state that depends on visitors to pay much of the freight.
But in the wisdom of Webster, Charlie Crist and the rest of the State Senate, ensuing these people will conitnue to come here, spend their dollars and make our lives less expensive is lost in their pandering.
As long as Save Our Home discriminates against non-homesteaded second homes and investment properties - the people that pay over 50% of our local taxes are going elsewhere.
Until Save Our Home is replaced with a sales tax that eliminates property taxes in Florida forever - we will continue to see the state's demise.
Crist is a one termer. Webster should have been replaced a long time ago. Wake up Floridians - this is our state - and we are only hurting oursselves.

The problem is that way too many people in this state do not vote, if more did then we could remove the Tallahassee scum, Our law makers know they will have free reign....because nobody votes!

[Everyone looses]

A 10% cap isn't going to do a thing....
Everyone looses in the end.
OK this is what happens when you own and rent out a rental property to your family and friends that can't afford to buy a house yet.
First someone buys the property; let’s say you buy it before the property has increased, maybe back in the year 1990. Maybe you were break-even with your cash flow on the property. So this owner bought low. And now after all the major increases in taxes (because they don't have a cap, raises to what the appraiser says that it's worth 100%) you are then $3,000 dollars negative a month. So then you have to increase rents, which the market can't bare, so then the owner can't afford to fix up the property because of the negative cash flow. So basically the tax increases are causing rents to go up and substandard living for renters, because the owners can't afford to fix them up. Plus you'll be living next to this dilapidated rental house in your neighborhood. Because the owner can't afford to fix them up because of taxes. And it's going to keep getting worse if the state doesn't change the tax rate for rental property. If they don't open up the market to all property types more and more property is going to go on the market and really lower every ones property value. Plus if you want to move and you can't sell you home and want to rent it out. Your property taxes will increase to 100% of what the property is worth. So basically you’re stuck in your home forever, because you won't be able to sell it, and renting it will take lots of money out of your pocket. A 10% cap isn't going to do a thing....We need help!!!!

[Reduce Spending]

VOTE NO on Amendment One on Jan 29!!!

Hey Everyone, we need to stick together on this one and wait for the 1.35% cap version to be placed on the November ballot. Look, we are getting the 611,000 signatures needed by January 31 http://www.cutpropertytaxesnow.com/ . That's all we need. We don't need to depend on our crooked, lazy representatives to come up with an initiative. We already have a grass roots effort that is endorsed by Rubio. The 1.35% cap will be more equitable and fair for everyone. It will save around 30%(thousands of dollars) of your property tax bill. If Amendment 1 passes now (which only saves around $300), people may be lulled into a sleep mode and will not have the political will to approve the 1.35% cap in November.

I say VOTE NO on Amendment One!!!