Shooting questions need answers

Shooting questions need answers

There are 294 comments on the Daily Democrat story from May 15, 2009, titled Shooting questions need answers. In it, Daily Democrat reports that:

Luis Gutierrez Navarro was recently shot and died by law enforcement officers because he had brandished a knife and had refused to put it down.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Democrat.

Looong-Time Woodlander

Greenwood, CA

#163 May 18, 2009
Woodlandchange wrote:
In regards to the syntax errors, a revised copy of the opinion piece was submitted to the daily democrat. Unfortunately, they printed the first incorrect draft without notifying the author. For those numb skulls capitalizing on the grammar errors, audit a class at Berkeley- i doubt you can handel it.
*Handle , excuse me, bigots are not the only ones that make typo errors.
that's the way of the daily democrat, if they even print a piece. Maybe we must "march" and demand to be "reassured" that a "murder" conspiracy is not being covered up? This doesn't "add up," it's not right, the democrat employees need more "training." Call the DOJ, CIA, FBI! Call the president. Oh, I know it's a racial thing -- I knew it, the DD has a history of doing this "alot."

It's because Alfaro, has a latino sir name...No, I really know this time even w/o all the facts it's the Sac Bee board of editors who did it. Yea, the BEE is behind this!!!!
Looong-Time Woodlander

Greenwood, CA

#164 May 18, 2009
Glad Im not Liberal wrote:
The writer may be very young and made a few mistakes, clearly not that big of a deal, we all make typos. What happened here is a young man made a very inflamatory statement in the public arena to a group of people who are very divided. The attacks on the grammar and typos are petty and immature. The content and accusations where no facts were given to back up the claims are open game. It appears the writer of the opinion piece does not have an inside into the investigation. If the Alfaro has access to the same information the public has then making the accusation that the Deputies murdered Navarro is clearly opinion at this point.
Wait for the official reports before we say anyone was murdered. Marco Topete, the "alleged" killer of Deputy Tony Dias is given that courtesy, give the same to these Deputies.
true, that but the author will be assessed based on the total package, no? at least in realityville USA.
In the know

Woodland, CA

#165 May 18, 2009
Eric Alfaro, its no wonder you are a student at UC Berkeley, you sir are an idiot who obviously has no idea what he is talking about, doesn't know the facts and apparently has no interest in the facts only wants to stir the pot. Stay in Berkeley
In the know

Woodland, CA

#166 May 18, 2009
Hate to tell you folks, he wasn't shot in the head.
Glad Im not Liberal

Auburn, CA

#167 May 18, 2009
Bridgette, thanks for clarifying what has happened. You should write articles for the paper. I'm not sure how you can call the tiger racist but well save that for when you're not so tired.
all I want to say

Woodland, CA

#168 May 18, 2009
justheard wrote:
I just heard that the bridge where this whole thing happened has been getting a new look the last couple of days. Workers have been re-painting and stuff over there. This to me is very INTERESTING.
I thought so too.... like really- why are these repairs so suddenly necessary...... kind of thing that makes you go, hmmmmmmm
two over par

Sarasota, FL

#169 May 19, 2009
all I want to say wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought so too.... like really- why are these repairs so suddenly necessary...... kind of thing that makes you go, hmmmmmmm
What is your point? Dont you think all of the physical evidence was obtained from the scene prior to the road being re-opened for use? What are you concerned about being "covered up"?
RevDoc

Martinez, CA

#170 May 19, 2009
justheard wrote:

"I just heard that the bridge where this whole thing happened has been getting a new look the last couple of days. Workers have been re-painting and stuff over there. This to me is very INTERESTING."

all I want to say replied,

"I thought so too.... like really- why are these repairs so suddenly necessary...... kind of thing that makes you go, hmmmmmmm"

No, it doesn't make me go hmmmmm. The thought that does cross my mind is scheduled maintenance. If you are so worried call the city and talk to the road maintenance director/manager and just ask.
RevDoc

Martinez, CA

#171 May 19, 2009
For those who pretend to care what the training requirements are for law enforcement; do some quality research.

The Commission on Peace Officer's Standards and Training (POST) is one starting point. Maybe many here don't realize that the usual length of an academy is 16+ weeks.

Once the officer/deputy starts with his/her dept. they usaually are assigned a Field Training Officer (FTO) for several weeks for one on one training. Then, so that they can receive training from more than one FTO they may be assigned to a different FTO who may have a different style and/or who will reinforce what the prior FTO taught. The FTO process may take several more months.

Then officers have in-house training, updates, annual refresher courses, new techniques/methods come out,(and they need training on that too) regular range qualifications, and many more other training hours, as needed.

Then add to all that - they have supervisors and managers who provide one-on-one training or as part of their unit meetings or daily briefings. There are also advance courses and cetificates for additonal training as well. Training is a crucial ongoing process, not a one time thing! There have been cases (law suits) won where agencies were caught for "failure to train."

This may not do justice to all the exact details of any particular department, but that is not the intent. I just want to offer a starting point, for those who are not aware of on-going training requirements.

I don't see why a local law enforcement "training officer" would not share general information to a caller/letter writer, from a concerned citizen, who simply asked.
no name

AOL

#172 May 19, 2009
I say if the police dept acted this way with all gang related issues/crimes then we would have a lot LESS crime in Woodland!! WE all need to take a stand against gangs!! Doesn't matter what color what race, a crime is a crime!! It needs to stop and everyone needs to pull together and start living life without drugs and crime which equal gangs!!!!
Bridgette

Woodland, CA

#173 May 19, 2009
Hello NO NAME! This kid wasn't in a gang..helllooooo~ What does "acted this way" mean? Should we just line them all up and shoot them? What are you saying? Should we all just move to North Korea? What are you saying?
no name wrote:
I say if the police dept acted this way with all gang related issues/crimes then we would have a lot LESS crime in Woodland!! WE all need to take a stand against gangs!! Doesn't matter what color what race, a crime is a crime!! It needs to stop and everyone needs to pull together and start living life without drugs and crime which equal gangs!!!!
Bridgette

Woodland, CA

#174 May 19, 2009
You're welcome. Read his post again. He doesn't even know how to spell El Tigre correctly...acting like he's hispanic. Read it again objectively. He's speaking of the incident as if it was gang related. It wasn't. Then he talks about kids walking together in groups without school books and that makes them what? In school all day, but not really..and just because they are walking down certain streets and happen to be what? Mexican? Then they are automatically in gangs. White kids walk down our streets in groups without school books, dressed just as bad, sometimes worse..does that make them what? It's sad how some people think. Don't you agree? It tests the hell out of my patience..maybe I have some more growing to do, but damn! Anyway..I'm outta here..headed for a much needed vacation at the coast. You all have fun here on your continuous debate. You're about the most logical so far, so I'm trusting you to hold the fort down..lol..jk. Have a good week and weekend~
Glad Im not Liberal wrote:
Bridgette, thanks for clarifying what has happened. You should write articles for the paper. I'm not sure how you can call the tiger racist but well save that for when you're not so tired.
eyesopen

West Sacramento, CA

#175 May 19, 2009
El Tigere wrote:
Eric.... Stay in Berkeley!!!
You're inflammatory rhetoric is the issue... That college education is doing wonders for you.
You are clueless in the ways of the world. You do not represent me and you certainly do not speak for me. I am sure you must have a "vast" life experience."
People in town cry about the gang problem...when something happens-they cry harder.
Bottom line: If you look the part, dress the part, associate with the gangsters, speak like the gangsters... then you know what? Live with the consequences. Go walk down East st, Matmor, 5th st, 6th st, North and 4th, and Yolano... you see these gang members everywhere... look any day after school... they're walking in the little bunches without any schoolbooks.... amazing, they spend all day in school but none of them ever seem to be carrying any schoolbooks? Somebody needs to kick all of these idiots butts... my vote is for the Woodland PD and YSO gang task force!!!
..if you look the part,dress the part...? Does this also mean if we see a group of kids dressed as Gothics,that they might go down to our school and start shooting? Does it mean that if we see a middle age white man, that he might be a serial killer?...of course not, that my friend is Profiling. Once again..this kid was NOT a gang member. El Tigere, if you watch Hispanic television you should know that a lot of Hispanics are afraid of getting beat up or getting killed by groups of men or kids that come after them because of their ethnicity,sometimes even saying they are cops. There's been cases that some have been beaten up and killed in broad daylight...these of course are the ones that have been reported. If this kid was scared and did not believe these were cops...i can only imagine what he went through.
P.S.....in advance i would like to apologize for any syntax,grammer,spelling errors that i might have made.
RevDoc

Martinez, CA

#176 May 19, 2009
eyesopen wrote:
<quoted text>..if you look the part,dress the part...? Does this also mean if we see a group of kids dressed as Gothics,that they might go down to our school and start shooting? Does it mean that if we see a middle age white man, that he might be a serial killer?...of course not, that my friend is Profiling. Once again..this kid was NOT a gang member. El Tigere, if you watch Hispanic television you should know that a lot of Hispanics are afraid of getting beat up or getting killed by groups of men or kids that come after them because of their ethnicity,sometimes even saying they are cops. There's been cases that some have been beaten up and killed in broad daylight...these of course are the ones that have been reported. If this kid was scared and did not believe these were cops...i can only imagine what he went through.
P.S.....in advance i would like to apologize for any syntax,grammer,spelling errors that i might have made.
One question for you, if I may. IF a person has a tatoo on his hands one dot on one hand and 3 dots on the other is there ANY significance to it, at all?
RevDoc

Martinez, CA

#177 May 19, 2009
eyesopen, when a person reaches the age of majority and then 8 years later, after his 26th birthday, is he still a "kid?"
RevDoc

Martinez, CA

#178 May 19, 2009
eyesopen here's another - IF, a 3 member gang task force team approach a man and cleary identify themselves (vebal/badge etc.) as law enforcment officers and the subject does not understand [for whatever reason] and the officers had no way to know that the subject did not understand, what fault would you find with the officers, if any?
eyesopen

West Sacramento, CA

#179 May 19, 2009
RevDoc wrote:
<quoted text>
One question for you, if I may. IF a person has a tatoo on his hands one dot on one hand and 3 dots on the other is there ANY significance to it, at all?
..only thing i would say...they must have REALLY good eyesight.
eyesopen

West Sacramento, CA

#180 May 19, 2009
RevDoc wrote:
eyesopen, when a person reaches the age of majority and then 8 years later, after his 26th birthday, is he still a "kid?"
...oops sorry..i meant guy/man/person/human being...you pick.
eyesopen

West Sacramento, CA

#181 May 19, 2009
RevDoc wrote:
eyesopen here's another - IF, a 3 member gang task force team approach a man and cleary identify themselves (vebal/badge etc.) as law enforcment officers and the subject does not understand [for whatever reason] and the officers had no way to know that the subject did not understand, what fault would you find with the officers, if any?
When and IF they identified themselves.
two over par

Tampa, FL

#182 May 19, 2009
eyesopen wrote:
<quoted text>..if you look the part,dress the part...? Does this also mean if we see a group of kids dressed as Gothics,that they might go down to our school and start shooting? Does it mean that if we see a middle age white man, that he might be a serial killer?...of course not, that my friend is Profiling. Once again..this kid was NOT a gang member. El Tigere, if you watch Hispanic television you should know that a lot of Hispanics are afraid of getting beat up or getting killed by groups of men or kids that come after them because of their ethnicity,sometimes even saying they are cops. There's been cases that some have been beaten up and killed in broad daylight...these of course are the ones that have been reported. If this kid was scared and did not believe these were cops...i can only imagine what he went through.
P.S.....in advance i would like to apologize for any syntax,grammer,spelling errors that i might have made.
What facts are using for your contention that Navarro was not involved with a gang? There have been at least two reports that have said that he had gang related tattoos. I am not taking these as facts as they are just reports on the news and in the paper, but I am at least considering them in my thinking of this incident. By that same token, it has been reported that numerous times that the officers were undercover, I certainly have questions about how and when they identified themselves to Navarro. Do you not agree that IF Navarro had these gang related tattoos and was wearing gang style clothing, it would lead a person to believe that he may actually be in a gang?

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