founding fathers
wondering

Wise, VA

#1 Nov 22, 2012
for all you right wingers wanting to follow the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, for one, considered proclaiming holidays "a monarchical practice" and paid no attention to Thanksgiving during his term of office.

He smoked pot and owned slaves too. Had a bi-racial child... now he was a real american...
hey libtard

Knoxville, TN

#2 Nov 22, 2012
wondering wrote:
for all you right wingers wanting to follow the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, for one, considered proclaiming holidays "a monarchical practice" and paid no attention to Thanksgiving during his term of office.
He smoked pot and owned slaves too. Had a bi-racial child... now he was a real american...
Thanksgiving wasn't an official holiday until 1863. Until 1939, there was no set date for Thanksgiving. Oh yeah, Thomas Jefferson penned The Declaration of Independence...I guess he WAS a real American. Bill Clinton "didn't inhale" and "had no sexual relations with that woman", but he was your hero? By the way, there were no right or left "wingers" during Thomas's presidency.
wondering

Wise, VA

#3 Nov 23, 2012
I believe George washington had observed thanksgiving but Jefferson did not is why it took till 1863 to get it official.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/434/...

Oh but yes my friend Jefferson was a liberal (old republican party and Hamilton was conservitive (old whig party)And yes Bill Clinton was a good president all but the "lie he told about things that were not my business and still don't care about and signing NAFTA. I think GW Bush was alright but letting 911 happen on his watch and the melt down of wall street on his watch and 2 wars that were based on lies from not him but chaney rove and their ilk is really the only things I did not like about him.
hey libtard wrote:
<quoted text>Thanksgiving wasn't an official holiday until 1863. Until 1939, there was no set date for Thanksgiving. Oh yeah, Thomas Jefferson penned The Declaration of Independence...I guess he WAS a real American. Bill Clinton "didn't inhale" and "had no sexual relations with that woman", but he was your hero? By the way, there were no right or left "wingers" during Thomas's presidency.
Ronaldus Magnus

Lebanon, VA

#4 Nov 23, 2012
Jefferson was considered a liberal in his time but his positions today would be considered far more conservative than those of Rush Limbaugh. In fact all of the Founding Fathers would be considered right wing extremist by todays standards.

Bill Clinton was a horrible president but was able to take credit for the economic success that Newt Gingrich and the republican controlled congress was able to usher in during Clintons term as president. It was under Clinton that Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac came into existance and it was the fall of these two institutions that started the financial crisis that we are in today.

George Bush was not a good president he went along with every liberal policy thrown at him except two.... by that standard he should have been the most popular President ever. Yet somehow democrats still hated him because he wouldn't compromise with them when it came to protecting America against terrorist. The other issue that he didn't agree with liberals on was his tax cuts. So other than those two issues he might as well been a democrat. But his policies did prevent terrorist from ever launching another successful terrorist attack on American soil since the 9/11 attacks and for that we all owe this man our respect and gratitude.
wondering

Wise, VA

#5 Nov 23, 2012
I think fannie may and freddie mac failed under bush. speaking of gingrich, he was having an affair while trying to impeach clinton and oh by the way republicans chose Romney over him???? Speaking of liberals your boy romney sure USED to be one hahahahahahahahahaah

you don't know how liberal or conservitive any one would be...but the fact is they(the founding fasthers) WERE LIBERAL. So in the spirit of our founding fathers who were liberal I will carry on the traditions of embracing change when change is for the better.
Ronaldus Magnus wrote:
Jefferson was considered a liberal in his time but his positions today would be considered far more conservative than those of Rush Limbaugh. In fact all of the Founding Fathers would be considered right wing extremist by todays standards.
Bill Clinton was a horrible president but was able to take credit for the economic success that Newt Gingrich and the republican controlled congress was able to usher in during Clintons term as president. It was under Clinton that Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac came into existance and it was the fall of these two institutions that started the financial crisis that we are in today.
George Bush was not a good president he went along with every liberal policy thrown at him except two.... by that standard he should have been the most popular President ever. Yet somehow democrats still hated him because he wouldn't compromise with them when it came to protecting America against terrorist. The other issue that he didn't agree with liberals on was his tax cuts. So other than those two issues he might as well been a democrat. But his policies did prevent terrorist from ever launching another successful terrorist attack on American soil since the 9/11 attacks and for that we all owe this man our respect and gratitude.
Sapphire

Big Stone Gap, VA

#6 Nov 24, 2012
wondering wrote:
I believe George washington had observed thanksgiving but Jefferson did not is why it took till 1863 to get it official.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/434/...
Oh but yes my friend Jefferson was a liberal (old republican party and Hamilton was conservitive (old whig party)And yes Bill Clinton was a good president all but the "lie he told about things that were not my business and still don't care about and signing NAFTA. I think GW Bush was alright but letting 911 happen on his watch and the melt down of wall street on his watch and 2 wars that were based on lies from not him but chaney rove and their ilk is really the only things I did not like about him.
<quoted text>
Clintonn was a quack. He lied under oath - which is illegal, doesn't matter who you are. He had bin Laden and let him go. The economy was sh*t in his first term until Gingrich swooped in and saved his a**. Clinton was also a draft dodger.
Sapphire

Big Stone Gap, VA

#7 Nov 24, 2012
Clinton*
AMS

Winchester, KY

#8 Nov 24, 2012
Sapphire wrote:
<quoted text>
Clintonn was a quack. He lied under oath - which is illegal, doesn't matter who you are. He had bin Laden and let him go. The economy was sh*t in his first term until Gingrich swooped in and saved his a**. Clinton was also a draft dodger.
your republican.party is so sorry that they couldn,t show bushs face in the last Election.they none cannot Govern its been proved over an over.everytime they get in office straight down we go people have wised up thats why obama won Thank Goodness.if the Gop can,t change with the times they will lose in 2016.these old fat farts.are out touch.an out time with Reality.Also proved by the Election.as for mitt.Good BYE an Good Riddance..
wondering

Wise, VA

#9 Nov 25, 2012
better president than bush
why didn't bush come out and help romney lol
Sapphire wrote:
<quoted text>
Clintonn was a quack. He lied under oath - which is illegal, doesn't matter who you are. He had bin Laden and let him go. The economy was sh*t in his first term until Gingrich swooped in and saved his a**. Clinton was also a draft dodger.
Ronaldus Magnus

Wise, VA

#10 Nov 26, 2012
wondering wrote:
I think fannie may and freddie mac failed under bush. speaking of gingrich, he was having an affair while trying to impeach clinton and oh by the way republicans chose Romney over him???? Speaking of liberals your boy romney sure USED to be one hahahahahahahahahaah
you don't know how liberal or conservitive any one would be...but the fact is they(the founding fasthers) WERE LIBERAL. So in the spirit of our founding fathers who were liberal I will carry on the traditions of embracing change when change is for the better.
<quoted text>
Those two government created companies did fail under Bush but Clinton was the architect of their creation and of the current financial crisis. Bush tried to have somthing done and warned people time and time again that their failure is imminent but his warnings remained ignored until it was too late. In fact the democrat controlled congress lashed out at Bush for making such claims saying that there was no danger with those two companies and that they both were too big to fail.

Actually you can know how conservative or liberal a Founding Father is by reading their journals every one of them kept journals throughout their lives. Also they published books and wrote numerous correspondances with friends and family that conveyed their thoughts on all topics, all of wich has been preserved and recorded and passed on for all of us to read and enjoy and learn from.

Romney was never my boy just the lesser of two evils. He has never been a conservative but neither was Bush they was both liberal just not extreme liberal.

I never said Newt was a saint, nor that all republicans are conservative. The most liberal of states have their primarys first therfor they always choose the more liberal republican candidate to support and by the time the more conservative states have primary's alot of conservative candidates have already dropped out because they didn't garner enough support from liberal republicans early on.

Whats best for our country is the traditions and institutions taught to us by our Founding Fathers it has worked better to raise the standard of living than any other form of government the world has ever seen. Any and all deviations from their model has served only to slow down or reverse our economic and social progress.

I don't say Founders were conservative because I am a conservative.... I became conservative after studying the Founding Fathers and realizing that their wisdom is timeless. People say times have changed and that we have evloved since then. I say only technology has evloved and that human nature never changes. The lessons taught to us by the Founders and the freedoms they gave to us will always be whats best for our country.
The Phantom Menace

Elizabethton, TN

#11 Nov 26, 2012
Big Ron, there seems to be a number of non sequiturs in your responses. Speaking in absolutes is a dangerous position. The lessons our founding fathers taught us aren't always best. If, as you say, human nature never changes, we then should rely solely on the logic of Aristotle and Plato. Surely their views are more original than those 27 centuries later? Then there would be no liberal or conservative views, only logic. If you are truly referring to human nature; self preservation and other base actions, perhaps you are correct, but I think the word needed is instinct, not nature. If you are referring to more esoteric and refined human nature like caring, curiosity, growth, I think we have evolved and become different than our fathers.

As for Jefferson, he was clearly influenced by the vein of British Liberal thinkers like Locke and Hobbes. This line of thinking was progressive and separated itself from conservative thought. Based on that one could infer that (without using post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning) that Jeffersons thoughts would be similar to progressive thinkers of today. Certainly if you compare his positions on issues then to issues of today, he'd appear only slightly less conservative than Louis the Sun King. If you compared his thought on contemporary issue to contemporary issue accounting for the change in society as a whole, I suspect he'd be very similar to JFK.
wondering

Wise, VA

#12 Nov 26, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
the above is why I am liberal so if you are conservitive you hate this
http://news.yahoo.com/low-iq-conservative-bel...
the second above is why I am not conservitive

conservitives never have a progressive idea they are chained to the past....
Ronaldus Magnus wrote:
<quoted text>
Those two government created companies did fail under Bush but Clinton was the architect of their creation and of the current financial crisis. Bush tried to have somthing done and warned people time and time again that their failure is imminent but his warnings remained ignored until it was too late. In fact the democrat controlled congress lashed out at Bush for making such claims saying that there was no danger with those two companies and that they both were too big to fail.
Actually you can know how conservative or liberal a Founding Father is by reading their journals every one of them kept journals throughout their lives. Also they published books and wrote numerous correspondances with friends and family that conveyed their thoughts on all topics, all of wich has been preserved and recorded and passed on for all of us to read and enjoy and learn from.
Romney was never my boy just the lesser of two evils. He has never been a conservative but neither was Bush they was both liberal just not extreme liberal.
I never said Newt was a saint, nor that all republicans are conservative. The most liberal of states have their primarys first therfor they always choose the more liberal republican candidate to support and by the time the more conservative states have primary's alot of conservative candidates have already dropped out because they didn't garner enough support from liberal republicans early on.
Whats best for our country is the traditions and institutions taught to us by our Founding Fathers it has worked better to raise the standard of living than any other form of government the world has ever seen. Any and all deviations from their model has served only to slow down or reverse our economic and social progress.
I don't say Founders were conservative because I am a conservative.... I became conservative after studying the Founding Fathers and realizing that their wisdom is timeless. People say times have changed and that we have evloved since then. I say only technology has evloved and that human nature never changes. The lessons taught to us by the Founders and the freedoms they gave to us will always be whats best for our country.

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