Study: Transgender Discrimination Cos...

Study: Transgender Discrimination Costs Mass. Millions

There are 29 comments on the EDGE story from May 10, 2011, titled Study: Transgender Discrimination Costs Mass. Millions. In it, EDGE reports that:

A new study from the Williams Institute concludes the exclusion of transgender people from Massachusetts' employment non-discrimination laws costs the Commonwealth millions of dollars each year.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

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Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1 May 11, 2011
Do we need more laws that will make doing business in Massachusetts still less attractive to companies? I'm sure there is some discrimination toward transgendered people. That said, the story points to Diane DeLap, an older person who was laid off. I know many older people who were let go and took early retirement because they couldn't find work. These types of laws give an unfair advantage to people that the rest of the population doesn't get.
Donna

Miramar Beach, FL

#2 May 11, 2011
Wondering wrote:
Do we need more laws that will make doing business in Massachusetts still less attractive to companies? I'm sure there is some discrimination toward transgendered people. That said, the story points to Diane DeLap, an older person who was laid off. I know many older people who were let go and took early retirement because they couldn't find work. These types of laws give an unfair advantage to people that the rest of the population doesn't get.
If Ms. Delap was laid off because of her transitioning then it was discrimination. If she was laid off for any other reason such as[poor work ethics ,or performance ] then it was just normal lay off procedures. what a coincidence, that her being laid off corresponded to her transition. yeah right! as for trans people having rights that others don't,,,have you not seen the list of people that are federally protected? if not, you should educate yourself, really!. women,african americans,ethnic groups, homosexuals,people of different religion[other than catholics] and the list goes on, are already covered under said protections. But not transgender people. is that fair? i don't think so. it would behove you to educate yourself on things. knowledge is the key.

Since: Feb 11

United States

#3 May 11, 2011
Wat about Detroit michigan

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#4 May 13, 2011
Donna wrote:
<quoted text>If Ms. Delap was laid off because of her transitioning then it was discrimination. If she was laid off for any other reason such as[poor work ethics ,or performance ] then it was just normal lay off procedures. what a coincidence, that her being laid off corresponded to her transition. yeah right! as for trans people having rights that others don't,,,have you not seen the list of people that are federally protected? if not, you should educate yourself, really!. women,african americans,ethnic groups, homosexuals,people of different religion[other than catholics] and the list goes on, are already covered under said protections. But not transgender people. is that fair? i don't think so. it would behove you to educate yourself on things. knowledge is the key.
Ia a patriarchal Society,men will always discriminate against those they consider a threat.M2F are not readily twisted around the greedy fingers of men;and,they know,better than anyone else,the dark nature of men.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#5 May 13, 2011
TYPO:IN A PATRIARCHAL Society.....
Homeless Guy

Merrimack, NH

#6 May 13, 2011
I was sitting on the bus today opposite a stunning Thai girl, thinking don't get an erection, don't get an erection - but then she did.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#7 May 13, 2011
Homeless Guy wrote:
I was sitting on the bus today opposite a stunning Thai girl, thinking don't get an erection, don't get an erection - but then she did.
Many Thai girls are especially attractive as M2F.However,most M2F are attractive in their own right.M2F are unique Women whose time has come.They alone will eventually slow down female abuse;and,perhaps,put a stop to it all together.
Homeless Guy

Merrimack, NH

#8 May 13, 2011
STEPHMAR wrote:
<quoted text>Many Thai girls are especially attractive as M2F.However,most M2F are attractive in their own right.M2F are unique Women whose time has come.They alone will eventually slow down female abuse;and,perhaps,put a stop to it all together.
You're probably not going to like this. But, here it goes...

Apparently, your issues run DEEP. In fact, you don't have issues, you have "Volumes." You really should get help. Seriously... My other post was just a joke. But, this one isn't. You REALLY need help.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#9 May 13, 2011
Homeless Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
You're probably not going to like this. But, here it goes...
Apparently, your issues run DEEP. In fact, you don't have issues, you have "Volumes." You really should get help. Seriously... My other post was just a joke. But, this one isn't. You REALLY need help.
ALL women are in need of help;whether they realize this or not.YES,my issues run deep.I don't consider the issue of M2F a 'joke.'
Homeless Guy

Merrimack, NH

#10 May 13, 2011
STEPHMAR wrote:
<quoted text>ALL women are in need of help;whether they realize this or not.YES,my issues run deep.I don't consider the issue of M2F a 'joke.'
Really? ALL "woman" need help? ROFLMAO! Oh, I see. If I joked about just a man or just a woman, that would be OK?

BIGOT!!!!

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#11 May 13, 2011
Homeless Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? ALL "woman" need help? ROFLMAO! Oh, I see. If I joked about just a man or just a woman, that would be OK?
BIGOT!!!!
Yes,my prejudice favors women.
Homeless Guy

Merrimack, NH

#12 May 13, 2011
STEPHMAR wrote:
<quoted text>Yes,my prejudice favors women.
You'd never know it by the way that you look down on women. I mean, you said that they all need help whether they know it or not???? You, my friend are a sick puppy. When you say that ANYONE needs help, you are merely projecting, as you are the one that truly needs help.

You should seriously consider getting some help. You really do need it - AND ALOT OF IT!

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#13 May 13, 2011
Homeless Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd never know it by the way that you look down on women. I mean, you said that they all need help whether they know it or not???? You, my friend are a sick puppy. When you say that ANYONE needs help, you are merely projecting, as you are the one that truly needs help.
You should seriously consider getting some help. You really do need it - AND ALOT OF IT!
I doubt very much that I look down upon women.I stand by my former statement;which does include myself?

“Indeed, I am!”

Since: Feb 09

As if it mattered . . .

#14 May 13, 2011
Wondering wrote:
Do we need more laws that will make doing business in Massachusetts still less attractive to companies? I'm sure there is some discrimination toward transgendered people. That said, the story points to Diane DeLap, an older person who was laid off. I know many older people who were let go and took early retirement because they couldn't find work. These types of laws give an unfair advantage to people that the rest of the population doesn't get.
Please explain to us how adding gender identity to existing nondiscrimination laws in Massachusetts gives any unfair advantage to anyone? For the life of me, I can't see how they do that. The bill adds the term, "gender identity" to the current nondiscrimination statutes. Everyone, every single human being on earth, has a gender identity. Thus, as far as I can figure, adding this term to the current laws does NOT give anyone any unfair advantages.

Of course, if you can explain it to us, maybe I missed something. Maybe I haven't thought it through properly. Please, enlighten us!

“Indeed, I am!”

Since: Feb 09

As if it mattered . . .

#15 May 13, 2011
Homeless Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
You're probably not going to like this. But, here it goes...
Apparently, your issues run DEEP. In fact, you don't have issues, you have "Volumes." You really should get help. Seriously... My other post was just a joke. But, this one isn't. You REALLY need help.
Not funny. At all. Your so called "joke" just illustrates how ignorant you are about trans people and trans women especially. It also advances the erroneous and transphobic belief that trans women are "really men." You probably won't understand this because you are sitting in a position of cissexual male privilege but, take it from one of the people you just mocked with that "joke," 'tain't funny at all.

The belief that trans women are "really men" and the accompanying belief that they are deceivers are the biggest motivating factors behind the violent physical assaults and murders of trans women all over the world. Your "joke" promotes those beliefs and tries to give them validity. That's why this is not a joking matter.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#16 May 14, 2011
Emelye Waldherr wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain to us how adding gender identity to existing nondiscrimination laws in Massachusetts gives any unfair advantage to anyone? For the life of me, I can't see how they do that. The bill adds the term, "gender identity" to the current nondiscrimination statutes. Everyone, every single human being on earth, has a gender identity. Thus, as far as I can figure, adding this term to the current laws does NOT give anyone any unfair advantages.
Of course, if you can explain it to us, maybe I missed something. Maybe I haven't thought it through properly. Please, enlighten us!
What it does is add another group of people to the list of those who can't be let go by an employer without a law suit. Then there is the distraction factor. If a company hired a man to do a certain job and the man decided to change to a woman it would be a major distraction at most companies and that could cost the company in productivity. I know a woman that worked for a company where one of the employees, a man, was changing to a woman. He had breast implants and nothing more, dressed and sounded like a man. Needed to shave before the end of the work day. He wanted to use the ladies room but all of the women complained and he was ordered to stay out of the ladies room. The men didn't want him in the mens room. I don't know all of the details but he ended up not returning to work.

What you say is true, "Everyone, every single human being on earth, has a gender identity." However, most people know what it is and it's defined by genitalia at birth. I have seen transgendered people interviewed on popular television shows, the latest was Chaz Bono because 'he' is pushing a new book. It seems to me that they are still confused and don't know what they want.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#17 May 14, 2011
Emelye Waldherr wrote:
<quoted text>
Not funny. At all. Your so called "joke" just illustrates how ignorant you are about trans people and trans women especially. It also advances the erroneous and transphobic belief that trans women are "really men." You probably won't understand this because you are sitting in a position of cissexual male privilege but, take it from one of the people you just mocked with that "joke," 'tain't funny at all.
The belief that trans women are "really men" and the accompanying belief that they are deceivers are the biggest motivating factors behind the violent physical assaults and murders of trans women all over the world. Your "joke" promotes those beliefs and tries to give them validity. That's why this is not a joking matter.
I could not have said it any better.He is a joke and a jerk.

“Indeed, I am!”

Since: Feb 09

As if it mattered . . .

#18 May 14, 2011
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
What it does is add another group of people to the list of those who can't be let go by an employer without a law suit. Then there is the distraction factor. If a company hired a man to do a certain job and the man decided to change to a woman it would be a major distraction at most companies and that could cost the company in productivity. I know a woman that worked for a company where one of the employees, a man, was changing to a woman. He had breast implants and nothing more, dressed and sounded like a man. Needed to shave before the end of the work day. He wanted to use the ladies room but all of the women complained and he was ordered to stay out of the ladies room. The men didn't want him in the mens room. I don't know all of the details but he ended up not returning to work.
An employer can avoid lawsuits very easily by treating their employees fairly. Simple.

As far as disruptions in the workplace are concerned, an employer can minimize the effects of the change in one of their employees. If done correctly, the disruption lasts maybe a couple days, maybe a week at the most. This is no greater than any kind of disruption caused by an employee who has an accident and returns to work with some special needs or maybe the disruption caused by the promotion of a manager and their replacement. All sorts of things can be disruptive in a workplace and good companies know how to deal with them. Singling out a gender transition as a disruption that should not be accommodated shows a bias and prejudice against that particular circumstance. It's not a valid reason.

Your story doesn't ring true. Whoever told you was obviously biased, using stereotypes and cliché to malign the person who was transitioning. The trans woman in your story "dressed like a man?" How so? By wearing pants and T-shirts? Suits and ties? Your story is too vague. Did the employer put her in a bad position by making her dress that way, using their dress code as a tool to oppress her?

She certainly has little control over the timbre of her voice and there are many deep voiced women in this world. There are also many many women assigned as such at birth with facial hair as well. Do you think they would be forced to use a men's room? Allowing deep voices and facial hair on women while claiming those characteristics are valid reasons to discriminate against trans women is hypocritical and invalid. Double standards are inherently unfair.

That this trans woman was denied the use of any restroom, and probably was forced out of her job as a result of this horrid policy, is all too common and is one of the main reasons this kind of law is necessary.

“Indeed, I am!”

Since: Feb 09

As if it mattered . . .

#19 May 14, 2011
Wondering wrote:
What you say is true, "Everyone, every single human being on earth, has a gender identity." However, most people know what it is and it's defined by genitalia at birth. I have seen transgendered people interviewed on popular television shows, the latest was Chaz Bono because 'he' is pushing a new book. It seems to me that they are still confused and don't know what they want.
I agree that most people know their gender identity and I disagree that it is formed by their genitalia at birth. I disagree because doctors and scientists all over the world have found that while genitals and gender usually match, they don't always. Trans people know very well who they are, the problem lies in the fact that for a small minority of humans, who they are doesn't match up with their genitals and the guess the doctor makes when they are born.

Science in the past 10-15 years has shown that transsexual people have brains that are configured in ways that are more like the gender they insist they are than the sex they were assigned at birth. You are mistaken in your belief that gender is determined by genitalia at birth.

You are also mistaken in your belief that trans people are confused. A confused person would never have the tenacity, integrity and strength to make a gender transition against all the cultural and emotional forces arrayed against them in that endeavor.

It seems that you are operating from a level of ignorance about trans people and their reality that is all too common in our society. Perhaps you can try to open your mind a bit and think more clearly about the issues and, instead of relying on stereotype and old disproved knowledge, use your computer to learn the truth about the issue.

This bill is vital and necessary. It won't create any of the doomsday predictions its opponents are imagining. It needs to be passed now!
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#20 May 14, 2011
Emelye Waldherr wrote:
1. You are also mistaken in your belief that trans people are confused. A confused person would never have the tenacity, integrity and strength to make a gender transition against all the cultural and emotional forces arrayed against them in that endeavor.
2. It seems that you are operating from a level of ignorance about trans people and their reality that is all too common in our society. Perhaps you can try to open your mind a bit and think more clearly about the issues and, instead of relying on stereotype and old disproved knowledge, use your computer to learn the truth about the issue.
3. This bill is vital and necessary. It won't create any of the doomsday predictions its opponents are imagining. It needs to be passed now!
1. Like I've pointed out, I've seen the interviews and they really seem confused to me. Back to Chaz Bono, he has not had genital surgery and doesn't plan to. How could this person stand naked in a room full of people and convince them he is a man?
2. The details of transgenderism and their realities are unimportant to me. I don't go out of my way to ridicule, harass, attack verbally or physically any of those people just for the sake of some type of perverse pleasure. They have problems enough.
3. I don't see the bill as anything but taking a right away from an employer. Depending on the situation in the workplace it could harm the employer. If an employer were suffering because of an individual, for ANY reason, the employer should have the right to discharge the employee for the good of the company. This would be especially important in small businesses.

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