What did you think of the debate betw...
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#21 Jan 23, 2010
another point - where you said something like "we" gave Don a 15 million dollar raise --

here's a topic discussion on his salary

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/williamson-wv...

Now it says his salary is under 1 million with the 10% cut he took, he's eligible for performance bonuses of cash and stock if he meets the performance level.

Now the bulk of his salary is stock, which is good or could be bad if the stock falls.

In other words, Blakenship gets the extra if the company makes money. So..would folks rather have DrLove at the head of the company when he believes CEO's shouldn't get compensated or someone who meets those promised performance levels?

Under DrLove the company shouldn't have to pay him at a high level, so what incentive would he have to deliver the profits? Under DrLove the company would probably fail and the workers would be left with no job & no compensation.
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#22 Jan 23, 2010
Let me touch on your union busting comment & connect it with something in the debate and compensation.

Kennedy mentioned Mammoth Coal & that Blankenship got rid of the union workers & went out of state to hire.

There's more to that story - and Blankenship only touches on that a little saying that what he gets paid to do is acquire companies and turn them around. Mammoth was bankrupt when Massey acquired it and reports are that the union miners were offered jobs that some took. Others refused to work for a non-union company.

That all went to court & Massey's insurance recently settled with the miners giving them back pay rather than paying more $$$$$ in court costs. So the mining jobs were in WV, some chose not to take them & Massey looked elsewhere for workers. Personally, I'd choose to work rather than let my family suffer because of any "union".
Outside Looking In

Aurora, IL

#23 Jan 23, 2010
So, can some of you folks weigh in on how you thought the debate went?
1 post removed
DrLove

Prestonsburg, KY

#25 Jan 23, 2010
Yes everyone is always planning on putting on that stuff check your facts, here is one that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand:

“Clean coal” is an attempt by the coal industry to try and make itself relevant in the age of renewables. Existing CCTs do nothing to mitigate the environmental effects of coal mining or the devastating effects of global warming. Coal is the dirtiest fuel there is and belongs in the past. Much higher emission cuts can be made using currently available natural gas, wind and modern biomass that are already in widespread use. Clean, inexpensive. This is where investment should be directed, rather than squandering valuable resources on a dirty dinosaur.

Let me guess your another massey flunky, and here you can learn a lot more of what I copied....touche

Oh and far as the grammer, I have more things to do than sit on a computer all day, I wrote the long article in about 10 minutes. Ask any of the youth about short han puters today they will xplain it 2 u. Sorry just got carried away.......here is the url.

http://www.greenpeace.org/seasia/en/campaigns...
DrLove

Prestonsburg, KY

#26 Jan 23, 2010
If I were running the company AND EVERYONE GOT A 6% CUT IN WHAT IS SUPPOSE TO BE A RISING MARKET. I would have turned down the raise AND THE TERMS so everyone would not have to take the 6% cut you failed to mention. So lets get this right the more less Massey gets you to work for, the more ole Don makes right. Hmmmm sounds like a company rat to me cause anybody else presented with these facts would realize they were a fool to work for less. Then again the workers now a days don't care what there parents helped established with the union. They don't care about there health or anybody elses especilly the children waiting to hit the drift mouth.
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#27 Jan 23, 2010
DrLove wrote:
If I were running the company AND EVERYONE GOT A 6% CUT IN WHAT IS SUPPOSE TO BE A RISING MARKET. I would have turned down the raise AND THE TERMS so everyone would not have to take the 6% cut you failed to mention. So lets get this right the more less Massey gets you to work for, the more ole Don makes right. Hmmmm sounds like a company rat to me cause anybody else presented with these facts would realize they were a fool to work for less. Then again the workers now a days don't care what there parents helped established with the union. They don't care about there health or anybody elses especilly the children waiting to hit the drift mouth.
Sorry, this grandma doesn't know much more puter shorthand than LOL -- LOL.. are you a youngter?

My philosophy is this -- if a company offers a job at x wages and x benefits w/raises etc and they provide those wages & benefits and raises, then I'm happy. I don't care what the company or the head honchos make. And if..it comes to closing down a job or taking less & I don't have an immediate alternative job to go to, then I would take a cut in pay and/or benefits until I found something better.

The union just about bargained themselves into extinction like the auto industry. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that.
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#28 Jan 23, 2010
oopsy - misspelled youngster above - oh well,
Dr Duuuhhhhhh

Ransom, KY

#29 Jan 23, 2010
Dr Love, I think I missed the answer to the question, do you currently work?
DrLOve

Prestonsburg, KY

#30 Jan 23, 2010
Dr Duuuhhhhhh wrote:
Dr Love, I think I missed the answer to the question, do you currently work?
I have currently worked for the last 34 years straight and the answer is no.........so I guess because I was smart enough to get out of mining in the 80's, I don't have an opinion. I guess living here after you have worked half your life don't count? Any fool can see what is going on around here, don't penalize me cause friends I have now who didn't get out can't breath now or yet passed away. And kids now are already being treated worse in these scab holes....no we don't need a union ask you local wal mart employee if they need a union. Whatever it has to do with this state being destroyed, polluted where I live because I don't work and no its not SSI either. Do you work?
DrLove

Prestonsburg, KY

#31 Jan 23, 2010
You don't have to worry about computer shorthand granny you need to learn how to spell first youngster.
DrLove

Prestonsburg, KY

#32 Jan 23, 2010
People are worried about grammer and their drinking poison water and breathing poisoned air, the wildlife are suffering especially the fish. People who are here to see if I start a new paragraph you need to go to the speller forum so you can get your cookies off. For people who are interested in whats going on around you check this out:

NEW PARAGRAPH

"CHARLESTON, W.Va.-- A Mingo County mine operator violated runoff control and emergency evacuation rules, contributing to a May 2009 flood that trapped seven workers underground for 24 hours, federal investigators said Thursday.
U.S. Mine Safety and Health Administration inspectors issued two citations to Alpha Natural Resources subsidiary Cobra Resources concerning the mine "inundation" at its Mountaineer Alma A Mine near Wharncliffe.
On May 8-9, heavy rains in and around Southern West Virginia led to widespread flooding.
At the Mountaineer Alma A Mine, storm runoff entered the mine portals. It built up into an underground pool that blocked escape routes. Water reached nine feet deep and, in some places, was as high as the mine roof.
Seven workers on the overnight shift realized at about 6 a.m. on May 9 that they could not get out of the mine. None of the seven was injured, and all exited the mine the following morning.
In a 24-page report, MSHA blamed the flooding in the mine on "the failure of the drainage system" at the mining complex and a "lack of maintenance" of that system.
Trees were found growing in a portion of a key drainage ditch, and the intake end of one of the culverts was completely buried, allowing almost no water to flow through it. This diverted water into another culvert, increasing flow through it by an estimated 600 percent."

12,900 water violations last year by Massey and you think people should get off them?

I can't take credit for any of this info it is here:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/williamson-wv...

Was my spelling ok I sure hope so I may not sleep tonight.
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#33 Jan 23, 2010
DrLove - your posts are looking nice - so much easier to read,

THX

oh, btw - here's the Massey response to your remark of water violations

"The Company just received notice of a potential lawsuit and is currently reviewing the allegations. On first review, the data and conclusions in the notice appear to be significantly incorrect. The Company’s compliance rate is well above 99%.

The threatened suit is but another attempt by out of state extremists to attack the coal industry, which works hard to provide domestic energy and domestic jobs. The Company is evaluating its legal options with respect to the inaccurate statements from these groups."
Dr Duuuhhhhhh

Ransom, KY

#34 Jan 23, 2010
DrLOve wrote:
<quoted text>
I have currently worked for the last 34 years straight and the answer is no.........so I guess because I was smart enough to get out of mining in the 80's, I don't have an opinion. I guess living here after you have worked half your life don't count? Any fool can see what is going on around here, don't penalize me cause friends I have now who didn't get out can't breath now or yet passed away. And kids now are already being treated worse in these scab holes....no we don't need a union ask you local wal mart employee if they need a union. Whatever it has to do with this state being destroyed, polluted where I live because I don't work and no its not SSI either. Do you work?
Absolutely, 30 years and still have several to go. I respect that you have worked the last 34 years, but I still disagree with your points of view. You have to remember that individuals have the right to make their own choices. They can be coal miners or choose another occupation, they can choose to work at a union establishment or a non union establishment, they can choose to live in Mingo County or for that matter, Southern WV or move elsewhere. You make it sound as though Don Blankenship is forcing the Massey employees to work for them and I don't think that's the case. They choose to work for Massey. If they don't like it, then why not get out? FYI, I have children who work in non union mines and they make very good wages and don't seem to have any safety issues. Infact, they really like where they work, but if they didn't my advise to them would be to go somewhere else to work. It's about individual choices. Also, before you go calling me a Don Blankenship suck, I don't know the man, I just know of him, but like I said in an earlier post. I'm for coal because it's what makes this communty survive. It sure keeps me in a job. A job I choose.
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#35 Jan 24, 2010
Someone stated on the Charleston forum that Kennedy has stated he has never been to an MTR site.I don't know whether Kennedy has been to an MTR site or not - but I do know that his presentation was direct parroting of everything that been coming lately from Coal River Mountain Watch - ala, Bo Webb, Judy Bonds & Mike Roselle.

Kennedy quickly ran through a litany of environmental buzz words - grandkid who sleeps in his street clothes, Hendryx study etc (I've only watched the first part)

Here's more on the Hendryx study & it's flawed conclusion:

and the article asks at the bottom

"So, is Hendryx a fair, unbiased researcher, or are his methods flawed? Hendryx was unavailable for comment, but The West Virginia Examiner hopes to get Hendryx on-the-record to address these issues and set the record straight."

A WVEx Original: A Study of Michael Hendryx and Flawed Reports

The duo took a look at mortality rates from 1979-2005 and compared those numbers with socio-economic conditions in coal counties and non-coal counties.

The mortality rates were converted into a data set called the Value of Statistical Life (VSL).

the entire article:

http://www.examinewv.com/index.php...
informed citizen

Oak Hill, WV

#36 Jan 24, 2010
heads up on latest action:

Environmentalists are again illegally shutting down a properly permitted operation by their latest tree sit. This time the mining operation is not even MTR.

The good folks at Climate Zero & I'm sure every radical online group are calling for folks to call Massey and demand the so-called illegal use of "noisemakers" LOL

I'm calling Massey to tell them to keep it up - within legal bounds of course. They saying that the use of LRAD's is a felony.

Long Range Acoustic Device (used by the military)

I say, if you can stand the sound - get out of the tree LOL

the number is eight zero four seven eight eight one eight zero zero
Gun Owner

Peach Creek, WV

#37 Jan 24, 2010
drlove you sure are one jelous person get a life go to work. get off welfare and food stamp card. cool don might give you a job
what next

Leesburg, VA

#38 Jan 24, 2010
kennedy says that he wants more deep mines? what will happen them? companies will have to build more prep plants that would cause more slurry ponds (which have been turned into fishing ponds and picnic areas) then the nut hugger will have to complain about those. so wv and ky miners will never win! wages? safety? following reulations? i work at a massey mine that follows all of those! the only violations we get are maybe a miner with no safety glasses on or something. when the person that wrote the violation didn't have them on either, go figue..... and by the way, we are a STRIP JOB!!(M.T.R) LOL
nemesis

United States

#39 Jan 24, 2010
Informed Citizen-Only Massey would use (LRAD'S) to try and bust people's ear drums. It doesn't surprise me though, because when we were on strike at Sprouse Creek in the 80's Don brought in an armored track vehicle to run us down. I thought were fighting Hitler's SS. When someone took a picture of it and gave it to the Daily News, they rushed in and hauled it off after dark. Nothing Don could pull out of his bag of tricks would surprise me.
Mary

Ann Arbor, MI

#40 Jan 24, 2010
Do you tree huggers not know how much the coal mines help the schools. I would think that if Don was giving out free food or Christmas presents you people who seem to be so against him would be the first in line to collect. If you people are so against the mining of coal just call and have your electric turned off. I would hate for you to use coal for heating or for lights, maybe you can find a better way.
Outside Looking In

Aurora, IL

#41 Jan 24, 2010
The Debate:

I watched the debate in its entirety. I want to state up front that I don’t know that much about either method of mining: MTR vs. Deep Mining. However, I must say it appears that ‘Deep Mining’ is a very dangerous method of mining & puts the life of the miner more at risk

Overall a lot of good points were made in the debate from both parties involved. That is, after you sifted through Kennedy’s ramblings. He certainly could not just answer any question directly; he used his time as a means to ‘preach’ about the environment & promote other forms of energy.

The moderator came across as not being an amateur; not in control of the debate at all. He is the most inexperienced, unprofessional moderator I have ever seen.

Kennedy came across as a bit radical, while B’ship seemed more composed & laid back; more to the point of the question that was asked. I am not saying the answers either party made were exactly correct; but it appeared that B’ship did a very good job in answering the questions & staying on subject.

Don’t get me wrong; overall, I love the Kennedy’s. But, Kennedy came across as having a personal agenda; after all he did say he was helping build the windmills out in California.(I’m sure Arnold is one of the investors as well—LOL.) It appears RK wants to put coal out of business so he & his cronies can be the ‘top dog’ of the source of energy. I never heard once how many men ‘wind’ would employ & how much he would pay them.

There’s nothing wrong with looking to next generation of energy. I will be the first to agree American needs to come up with an alternative form of energy. If we don’t come up with an alternative form of energy or energies, we are going to be left with the dust in our face; lagging behind other countries as we pretty much do in everything else. At the same time, I’m in support of American using coal as a form of energy. I am in support of those men down in the Appalachia Mountains being the ones to mine the coal, because that is what most of them know how to do best & is their only means of income.

In the meantime, the children of the miners can go to college to learn about the science of new method of energy to be used; while the current miners are mining coal.

As far as CEO’s pay, unfortunately, that is Corporate America. Look all around you; it’s just not Massey Energy. I know of many CEO’s that got raises last year & this year, while the employees did not get a raise. Is this fair? H*ell No; is there anything we can do about it? H*ll no!

While Kennedy, Jr. made many valid points, don’t fall into his agenda.(Divide & conquer.) He spoke about Don’s raise, but he never disclosed how much revenue or profit he would be making from his windmill(s). He will not be using the men from the mines to build his solar panels, or wind turbines for energy; he will be using the men in China, or India.

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