“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Roosevelt, UT

#14032 Jul 14, 2011
Mechanic_45 wrote:
<quoted text>Just more of your imagination.
You mean...like your's and what you think the Bible says.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Roosevelt, UT

#14033 Jul 14, 2011
Finestra wrote:
So Hannah, if anyone were actually "intrigued" or "curious" about the LDS church as you say in your opening post, what could you point to in the history of this thread that would convince them to want to become a Mormon? Why should I see being a Mormon as being advantageous?
I couldn't tell you...how about you ask "them"

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Roosevelt, UT

#14034 Jul 14, 2011
Interesting how Martin Luther is the one who authored the concept of "Sola Scripta" yet we know that he threw out 7 books of the long established Bible and would have thrown out others had some of the other reformers not stopped him. So much for "Sola Scripta" It is astounding how Protestants and Anglican have adopted Luther's views on one hand, "Sola Scripa" (Bible Only) yet have no qualms that their Bible is incomplete or that their version was based upon the Masoretic text which came after Christ in response to the Christian Messiah .

Luther’s Views on the ‘Disputed Books’– James, Jude, and Revelation
“St. James’ Epistle is really an epistle of straw… for it has nothing of the nature of the Gospel about it.”
“Though this epistle of St. James was rejected by the ancients, I praise it and consider it a good book, because it sets up no doctrines of men but vigorously promulgates the law of God. However, to state my own opinion about it, though without prejudice to anyone, I do not regard it as the writing of an apostle…”(Preface to the Epistles of St. James and St. Jude, 1522)
Luther rejected the Book of James as being written by an apostle. To him, James contradicted Paul’s teachings on the justification of faith, but fortunately, most Christians today understand that Paul’s writings of faith and James’ writings of works coincide with one another. He goes on saying that James “throws things together so chaotically.”
“Moreover he cites the sayings of St. Peter:‘Love covers a multitude of sins,’ and again,‘Humble yourselves under the hand of God;’ also the saying of St. Paul in Galatians 5,‘The Spirit lusteth against envy.’ And yet, in point of time, St. James was put to death by Herod in Jerusalem, before St. Peter. So it seems that this author came long after St. Peter and St. Paul.”
Here, we can see how confused Luther is about the authorship. He believed that the author of this book was James, the brother of John, who was martyred by Herod in Acts 12:2. Most scholars believe that the James who was Christ’s brother (Matt. 13:55, Galatians 1:19) actually wrote this book, but if you remember correctly, Luther didn’t believe Jesus had any earthly brothers, because he believed Mary remained a perpetual virgin.
“Concerning the epistle of St. Jude, no one can deny that it is an extract or copy of St. Peter’s second epistle, so very like it are all the words. He also speaks of the apostles like a disciple who comes long after them and cites sayings and incidents that are found nowhere else in the Scriptures. This moved the ancient fathers to exclude this epistle from the main body of the Scriptures. Moreover the Apostle Jude did not go to Greek-speaking lands, but to Persia, as it is said, so that he did not write Greek. Therefore, although I value this book, it is an epistle that need not be counted among the chief books which are supposed to lay the foundations of faith.”(Preface to the Epistles of St. James and St. Jude, 1522)

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Roosevelt, UT

#14035 Jul 14, 2011
Luther believed that the Book of Jude was a copycat epistle of 2 Peter, noting that he thought the words were very similar between the two. One of his problems with Jude is that Jude is quoting and using text about Enoch and other happenings that aren’t mentioned anywhere else in Scripture. Finally, because tradition teaches that Jude went to Persia, Luther assumes that there is no way that Jude could have learned to write in Greek, thus dismissing it as a book not to be counted along side the rest of the epistles.
“I miss more than one thing in this book, and this makes me hold it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic…and I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it…there are many far better books available for us to keep.”(Preface to the Revelation of St. John, 1522)
One of Luther’s main concerns in his critique of these epistles is that they did not “speak clearly of Christ and his deeds.” Because Revelations focused heavily on symbolism and visions, he claimed,“The apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear and plain words, as do Peter and Paul.” Luther also suggests that John is being arrogant when he “commends his own book so highly.” To be fair, he says that everyone should think of Revelations in ways that his own spirit leads him, but Luther admits to finding no way of detecting inspiration from the Holy Spirit in John’s account.

Pasted from < http://thedissidentblog.wordpress.com/2008/03... ;

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Roosevelt, UT

#14036 Jul 15, 2011
saviorself wrote:
<quoted text>
calm down, now. as before the war, the Southern Churches were as anti and pro-slavery and Jim Crowe as they would prove to be afterwards. We've dealt with enough outside agitation for the last 150 years, there's no reason to throw us under the bus yet again just to prove another random point of deeply-believed dogma. Back away from the South. Anyone who even remotely understand history realizes that Tennessee was almost split in two over the slavery issue (as Virginia was, the only reason we were'nt was because it failed by one vote) and we paid for it for a long time time afterwards. Keep your moral judgements on the esoteric plains, please, if for no other reason then as a personal favor to me. I'll owe you one.
I understand your connection to the South and your loyalty but it seems reprehensible for Anti-Mormons to put a stick in the eyes of Mormons over the issue of Blacks and the Priesthood when more often than not they have a reprehensible history mired in Slavery and Racism that started long before the Restored Gospel. I'm not just talking about the South but also the Northern sects who did not condemn slavery for a couple of hundred of years and then waffled even then. Example:

The attacks on slavery mounted by the Abolitionists stung Southern evangelicals, and denominational authorities from both North and South reacted strongly to the abolitionist campaign. One example of this reactivity was the effort made by Methodists to gag abolitionists in the church, who were deemed to be a threat to the order of the church. The Bishops of the Methodist Episcopal Church ordered their preachers "to abstain from all abolition movements and associations, and to refrain from patronizing any of their publications." They were willing to take this step because they feared that such advocacy might hurt the patronage of the church in the South. Nor were the Methodists alone in this. Roman Catholic bishops did something very similar, when they refused to pronounce slavery an evil.

As you may recall, not every Southerner owned slaves. In fact, only 1 in 11 did. But the major molders of public opinion did own slaves. This was true of educators, doctors, politicians, and preachers. Indeed, Richard Furman – the originator of the Biblical defense of slavery was one such pastor. In South Carolina, for instance, 40% of Baptist preachers owned slaves.
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/slave...

In 1784 the Methodists announced that they would excommunicate anyone who did not free his slaves within two years. In 1787 the Presbyterians resolved to pray for the "final abolition" of slavery. In 1789 the Baptists declared that slavery was "a violent deprivation of the rights of nature and inconsistent with a republican government."

The Methodists were forced to rescind their threat of excommunication within six months of its promulgation; over time they grew more silent on the issue, declaring in 1816 that "little can be done to abolish the practice so contrary to the principles of moral justice." The Presbyterian General Assembly in 1818 characterized emancipationists as socially disruptive, while the Baptists seem to have stopped discussing the issue sometime before 1800.

http://able2know.org/topic/4946-1

In 1843 there was a split which was caused primarily over slavery and the clergy and
laity of the Methodist Episcopal Church left to form the Wesleyan Methodist Church in America.
which continues today as the Wesleyan Church. At that time “1,200 Methodist ministers owned
1,500 slaves and 25,000 members owned 208,000 slaves ... the Methodist Church as a whole
remained silent and neutral on the issue of slavery."

http://www.vitalchristianity.org/docs/Slavery...

This last link gives a time-line of when slavery started in the U.S. and lasted for 246 years and the role of the North and the South.
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14038 Jul 15, 2011
Hannah Rebekah wrote:
<quoted text>
Really!!! Which Bible are you talking about?
There are some 5,700 ancient Greek manuscripts that are the basis of the modern versions of the New Testament, and scholars have uncovered more than 200,000 differences in those texts.  Put it this way: There are more variances among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament. Most of these are inconsequential errors in grammar or metaphor. But others are profound. The last 12 verses of the Gospel of Mark appear to have been added to the text years later – Another critical passage is in 1 John, which explicitly sets out the Holy Trinity (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). It is a cornerstone of Christian theology, and this is the only place where it is spelled out in the entire Bible – but it appears to have been added to the text centuries later, by an unknown scribe."
"There are some things that we must consider when we try to declare one Bible translation better than another, as some people try to do when asked which is their favorite.  Lets look at a few of these considerations.  The Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.  No original manuscripts exist, and there are distinct differences – though often minor – between the various manuscripts that have survived.
     There are many Bibles which differ not only because of different translations but also because of including different selections of writings (e.g., apocryphal books or other books that are not considered canonical by everyone).  It therefore becomes difficult to accept the idea that the Bible is an infallible, perfect document when it is not clear which documents really belong in the Bible or which varying manuscripts should be used in the translation, not to mention the inherent uncertainties and problems that arise in translating any of the existing early manuscripts.  The Bible is inspired, but there is no denying that it has been touched by human hands!  To understand the large variety in canons, we need to look back in history.  For example, the Codex Sinaiticus, which is the oldest New Testament collection available, a fourth century manuscript found in a monastery on Mount Sinai, contains two writings which are excluded in the modern New Testament, the Shepherd of Hermas and Barnabas.  And yet even in the other books of that Codex, there appears to be a tendency to omit passages, leading to some shorter versions of Bible verses than we have in the King James text.
   
I think I will cut and paste some very interesting facts about our Bible as it relates to other works of antiquity.

But how reliable is our text?

A. How do we know that what we have today is what was originally penned?

1. How do we know that there aren’t significant errors in our text?

2. How do we know that there hasn’t been some secret collusion to modify our text?

B. After all this is what Muslims and Mormons claim about the Bible

1. They well know that Bible contradicts their holy books, but they also claim to be a follow-on religion to what is found in the Bible

2. How do you handle that the earlier book shows the later books to be wrong?

3. Why, announce that there is complete agreement between your religion and the original text of the Bible, but then claim that the text we have today has been altered from the original.

con't
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14039 Jul 15, 2011
C. The Bible isn’t the only ancient text in the world

1. The question of accuracy of the copies comes up in all ancient texts
2.But we can apply tests to the documents we have to see whether the claim of accuracy stands or not

D.How many copies exist?

1. The more copies, the more comparisons we can make to find slips of the pen by those making the copies. Thus, the more the better.

2.Other ancient documents

a.The Annals of Tacitus, a Roman historian - 2
b.The writings of Plato - 7
c.The writings of Herodotus - 8
d.Thucydides, considered to be a very accurate historian, 8 copies plus a few fragments
e.Caesar’s Gallic Wars - 10
f.The Roman historian Livy wrote 142 books of which only 35 survived and we have 20 copies.
g.Popular classical authors are better represented. We have hundreds of copies of Euripides, Cicero, Ovid, and Virgil
h. The best representative is Homer’s Illiad, which we have 700 copies.

3. And the New Testament?

a. We 5,300 complete or mostly complete manuscripts
b. We have 13,000 fragments
c. There are 8,000 Latin translations of the Greek text
d. There are another 8,000 manuscripts in Syriac, Armenian, Ethiopic, Coptic, Gothic, Slavic, Sahidic, and Georgian
e. Not enough? A study done at the British Museum documented 89,000 quotes or allusions to the New Testament in the writings of early Christian writers.
f. Oh, and we have 1,800 lectionaries, which are reading lessons from early church services dating from the sixth century.

con't
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14040 Jul 15, 2011
E. Where were these copies found?

1.If the source of the copies all came from one place, then it would be possible for someone to modify the text.

2. Multiple regions and from multiple time frames make a concerted effort to modify the text nearly impossible.

3. The New Testament texts were found in Egypt, Ethiopia, Palestine, Syria, Turkey, Greece, and Italy

4. Also because we have numerous old translations, alterations in one language could be detected by comparing it to the other translations.

F.How much time passed between the original writings and the surviving copies?

1. If there is a large gap, then it is possible for a change to be introduced early on and we would be unable to detect it.

2. Other ancient documents

a. Histories of Herodotus - earliest copy was made 1,350 years after the original!

b. Histories of Thucydides - earliest copy was made 1,300 years after the original

c. Caesar’s Gallic Wars - 950 years after the original

d. Annals of Tacitus - 950 years after the original

e. Histories of Tacitus - 750 years after the original

f. The Roman History of Livy - 350 years after the original and the copy is only a fragment

3. The New Testament

a. We have several fragments dated to 40 to 100 years after the original writings

b. We have several Greek manuscripts which date to 300 to 400 years after the original

c. Some of the translations are older. Most, though, are from the 300's and later.

d. The quotes and allusions in the early Christian writers date from 95 AD to the early 400's. Most come from the second and third century.

con't
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14041 Jul 15, 2011
G. Variation

1. How different are the various copies from one another?

a. Scribes make errors, so we expect some variation.

b. But the more there are, the less certain we can be about the original

2. Ancient manuscripts

a. Few copies make variation analysis difficult to do

b. Homer’s Illiad, which we have 700 ancient copies show a 5% variation in the text

3. New Testament

a. Less than ˝ percent is in question

b. Most of these are minor spelling differences or slight variations in phrasing

c. Most translations note the disputed variations in their margins.

d. Sir Frederick Kenyon, a noted authority on New Testament Textual criticism, stated “No fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith rests on a disputed reading ... It cannot be too strongly asserted that in substance the text of the Bible is certain: especially is this the case with the New Testament.”
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14042 Jul 15, 2011
IV. Collaborating evidence
A. If the Bible is an account of events that took place in history, then there will be other references to at least major events or people in the Bible

B. Many things are coming to light from archeology, enough that we could spend a long time talking about them.

C. But for the moment, let us look at three secular historians who were not motivated to support Christianity to see what they recorded

1. Josephus, a Jewish historian commissioned to write a history of the Jews for Rome

a.“Now, some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist; for Herod slew him, who was a just man and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism.”[Antiquities, 18:5:2]

b.“ Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.[Antiquities, 18:3:3]

2. Caius Cornelius Tacitus, was a Roman who became consul in 97 A.D. He hated Christians, but he does say

a. Christ was the founder of a sect of Christians

b. Christ was put to death as a criminal

c. He was executed by Pontius Pilate

d. Tiberius was emperor of Rome

e. Jesus was born in the reign of Augustus

f. This “pernicious superstition” was checked for a time by the death of its founder

g. It broke out again and spread not only over Judea but reached the city of Rome

h. Christians were persecuted in Rome under Nero

i. Vast numbers were discovered and condemned being accused of burning the city and because of their “hatred” for mankind.

j. They were hated as the offscourings of the earth and the filth of all things

k. They were destroyed to gratify the cruelty of one man

3. Pliny, the Younger, was Proconsul of Bithynia from 106 to 108 AD. He wrote a letter to Trajan, Emperor of Rome for advice in which we learn many things

a. Many Christians of every age and rank and of both sexes were in Bithynia

b. Their teaching and influence were such that heathen temples were almost deserted and the sellers of sacrifices could hardly find purchasers

c. None who were really Christians could, by any means, be compelled to make supplication to the image of Caesar, or the statue of the gods.

d. After the most searching inquiry, including torture to force confessions, he had found no vice among them

e. They suffered for the name of being Christians without any charge of crime

f. They were accustomed, on stated days, to hold two meetings; one, for singing “in concert” hymns to Christ, and for making vows to live righteously; and the other, for eating a “harmless meal.”

g. Those who were Roman citizens were sent to Rome for trial
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14043 Jul 15, 2011
V. Summary

A. F. F. Bruce:“The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning. And if the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be as beyond all doubt.”

B. Josh McDowell:“After trying to shatter the historicity and validity of the Scripture, I came to the conclusion that they are historically trustworthy. If one discards the Bible as being unreliable, then he must discard almost all literature of antiquity. One problem I constantly face is the desire on the part of many to apply one standard or test to secular literature and another to the Bible. One needs to apply the same test, whether the literature under investigation is secular or religious. Having done this, I believe one can hold the Scriptures in his hand and say,‘The Bible is trustworthy and historically reliable.’”

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVSermons/Ca...
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14044 Jul 15, 2011
Just for fun, how about we look at the BOM and the Joseph Smith translation Bible. I think you will find this interesting:
“We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”—The Eighth Article of Faith, Pearl of Great Price

Notice the qualification,“as far as it is translated correctly,” placed upon the Bible while no qualification is given to the text of the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith declared that “ignorant translators, careless transcribers …corrupt priests have committed many errors” in copying the text of the Bible. 3. Thus, Smith claimed that he restored and clarified the truths missing from the Bible through his publication of the Book of Mormon:

“I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”—History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461

By claiming that the Book of Mormon stands apart from “any other book” as “the most correct of any book on earth,” Joseph Smith placed the Book of Mormon above the Bible as the standard by which a “man would get nearer to God.” If one is to believe Joseph’s Smith’s claim that the Book of Mormon is “the most correct” book on earth, one cannot help but question the integrity of the Biblical text as one reads the wholesale attack upon the Bible’s accuracy found in the pages of the Book of Mormon. Seven times in the space of seven verses quoted below from First Nephi chapter thirteen, the Book of Mormon dogmatically asserts:“there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.”

con't
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14045 Jul 15, 2011
Although the Book of Mormon adamantly stresses that precious truths were “taken away” and “kept back” from the “gospel of the Lamb” by the “great and abominable church,” it makes no attempt to “restore” these alleged lost truths. There is not a single doctrine revealed in the Book of Mormon that is not already mentioned in the Bible. Not only is there no sign of the so-called “plain and most precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb” that are allegedly missing from the Bible, but gone from the Book of Mormon are many of the unique doctrines of the Mormon gospel—such as baptism for the dead, the three degrees of glory, celestial marriage, God having a body of flesh and bones and the Word of Wisdom (food and drink law of Mormonism). These are all requirements that the LDS Church claims are necessary for a Mormon to be exaltated into the highest degree of Heaven, yet they are missing from the “precepts” of the book that Joseph Smith claimed would get a man “nearer to God…than…any other book.” Furthermore, Jesus in the Book of Mormon warns against adding to His doctrines when He says:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine…and whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil…”—3 Nephi 11:39-40 4.

Is the Mormon Church guilty of declaring “more…than” Jesus’ doctrine by adding “precepts” not found in the Book of Mormon? You be the judge. In the meantime, we must ask why the Book of Mormon not only fails to “restore” these missing doctrines of Mormonism, but it contradicts the words of Jesus Christ, the true Lamb of God, who promised:

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”—Matthew 24:35 5.

con't
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14046 Jul 15, 2011
WHO ARE WE TO BELIEVE?

Are we to believe Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon that claim that “plain and precious parts” of Jesus’ words passed away? Or should we believe Jesus’ promise to preserve His words? Jesus wasn’t the only one in the Bible to promise that God’s words would not be lost, the Prophet Isaiah made the following promise in the Old Testament and the Apostle Peter reiterated this promise in the New Testament:

“The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”—Isaiah 40:8

“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”—1 Peter 1:25

CON'T
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14047 Jul 15, 2011
JOSEPH SMITH’S INSPIRED VERSION OF THE BIBLE
In spite of God’s promise that His Word would not be lost, Joseph Smith went so far as to produce his own version of the Bible in which he added hundreds of words to the text of Scripture without manuscript support whatsoever. His translation is called The Inspired Version of the Bible or The Joseph Smith Translation (JST). The Mormon Church published some of Smith’s revisions in the footnotes and appendix of its LDS version of the King James Bible and all of Smith’s revisions are currently published in the book entitled, Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible, by Herald Publishing House owned by the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or RLDS).

Although Joseph Smith claimed that he finished his translation of the Scriptures in July of 1833, 6. most Mormons think that he did not finish it because the LDS Church has never published a full manuscript of it. Yet, not only did Joseph Smith testify to his completion of the Scriptures, he proclaimed that God commanded that his Bible translation should be printed.

“.... the second lot on the south shall be dedicated unto me for the building of a house unto me, for the work of the printing of the translation of my scriptures.”—Doctrine and Covenants, 94:10

“And for this purpose I have commanded you to organize yourselves, even to print my words, the fullness of my scriptures, the revelations which I have given unto you.”—Doctrine and Covenants, 104:58

“…let him [William Law] from henceforth hearken to the counsel of my servant Joseph,…and publish the new translation of my holy word unto the inhabitants of the earth.”—Doctrine and Covenants, 124:89

CON'T

“My pages don't stick”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#14048 Jul 15, 2011
Hannah Rebekah wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure we have them....we are not a break off.
In a pamphlet entitled 'The Strength of the Mormon Position,' the late Elder Orson F. Whitney, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, related the following incident under the heading " A Catholic Utterance":
"Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed too know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.""
No, you're not a breakoff, your's is just man made.e's what it had led to;

Given the fact that over 100 splinter groups have developed on the foundation of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, I question the validity of the Mormon "testimony" in solidifying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the sole possessor of the "restored gospel." Since all of these movements base their authority on the Book of Mormon and the Prophet Joseph Smith, how can a "testimony" gained through praying about the Book of Mormon be sufficient to prove which church of all of these movements one should join? The following list of dissident groups is taken from the book Divergent Paths of Restoration:
FOUNDED BETWEEN 1830 AND 1844
Pure Church of Christ, Wycam Clark, 1831
The Independent Church, Hoton, 1832
Church of Christ, Ezra Booth, 1836
Church of Christ, Warren Parrish, 1837
The Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, The Lamb's Wife, George M. Hinkle, 1840
Church of Christ, Hyrum Page, 1842
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, F. Gladden Bishop
True Church of Jessu Christ of Latter Day Saints, Law, Foster, Higbee, 1844
Church of Christ, William Chubby

More...
Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14049 Jul 15, 2011
If Joseph Smith never finished translating his Bible Scriptures as many Mormons today claim, what was Smith doing with so many revelations allegedly from God stating that he should print his Bible Scriptures? Why would God command him to print an unfinished translation? Despite revelations that claim that God commanded that Smith’s Bible translation should be printed, the Mormon Church has never printed a full manuscript of it. Why? The LDS Church does not own the copyright to it. When Joseph Smith died and Brigham Young took over the leadership of the LDS Church, Joseph Smith’s first wife Emma refused to give the manuscript to Young and instead gave it to a group called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints led by her son who in turn published Smith’s translation in 1867.

It is fascinating to study Joseph Smith’s Translation of the Bible because one will discover many changes and alterations that he made to the text of Scripture to validate his own unique views. Some of the significant doctrinal changes Smith inserted into the text of his Bible are as follows:

•KJV Romans 4:5:“…believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly…”
•JST Romans 4:5:“…believeth on him who justifieth not the ungodly…” 7.
•KJV Exodus 33:20:“Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.”
•JST Exodus 33:20:“Thou canst not see my face at this time, lest mine anger be kindled against thee also, and I destroy thee, and they people; for there shall no man among them see me at this time, and live, for they are exceeding sinful. And no sinful man hath at any time, neither shall there be any sinful man at any time, that shall see my face and live.” 8.
JOSEPH SMITH EVEN ADDED AN ENTIRE SECTION TO HIS BIBLE consisting of 15 verses and over 800 words between Genesis 50:24-26 TO CREATE A PROPHECY ABOUT HIMSELF. The following verse where he mentions himself by name is taken from this prophecy that Smith added to Genesis chapter fifty:

“And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.”—Genesis 50:33, Joseph Smith Translation

con't

“My pages don't stick”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#14050 Jul 15, 2011
NON-EXTANT MOVEMENTS FOUNDED 1844-1860
Church of Christ / Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion, Sidney Rigdon, 1844
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, James Emmett, 1844
Church of Christ, S. B. Stoddard, Leonard Rich, James Bump, 1845
Indian Mormon, 1846
Church of Christ, William McLellin, David Whitmer, 1847
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, William Smith, 1847
Congregation of Jehovah's Presbytery of Zion, Charles B. Thompson, 1848
Church of Christ, James C. Brewster, 1848
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Lyman Wight, 1849
The Bride, The Lamb's Wife or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Jacob Syfritt, 1850
Church of Christ, Hazen Aldrich, 1851
EXTANT MOVEMENTS
Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, James J. Strang, 1844
Church of Christ, Aaron Smith, 1846
Church of the Messiah, George J. Adams, 1861
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ, Alexandre R. Caffiaux
House of Ephraim and House of Manasseh of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Jerry Sheppard
The True Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, David L. Roberts
Marriage Counseling Group
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, John J. Hajicek
Strangite Believers in Pennsylvania
Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Brigham Young, 1847
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Church of the First Born, Joseph Morris, 1861
The Prophet Cainan or Church of Jesus Christ of the Saints of the Most High God, George Williams, 1862
Morrisite Group, John Livingston, 1864
Church of Zion, William S. Godbe, 1868
Church of the First Born, George S. Dove, 1874
Priesthood Groups (Fundamentalists), 1890

Truth

Whitley City, KY

#14051 Jul 15, 2011
Joseph Smith’s “Inspired Version” creates many difficulties for the LDS Church, not only because the Church violated the revelations of Doctrine and Covenants when it didn’t print the full version of it, but also because Smith’s version does not correct the most problematic Biblical Scriptures that condemn the heretical beliefs of Mormonism. Verses such as Isaiah 44:6 and 8 that condemn Smith’s “plurality of gods” concept 9. and Isaiah 43:10 that condemns the Mormon idea that men can become gods 10. are left intact in Joseph Smith’s translation. Likewise, Joseph Smith’s version makes no attempt to restore the alleged “missing books” that Mormons claim were removed from the Bible.

Finally, in the thousands of manuscripts of the Bible that have been uncovered, some dating as far back as the 2nd Century B.C., not a single manuscript supports the changes that Joseph Smith made to the text of his Bible. If the “plain and most precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb” were truly “taken away” and “kept back” by the “abominable church” of the middle ages, as the Book of Mormon claims, 11. why is such evidence completely missing from the manuscripts that we possess today of the Holy Bible that date prior to the formation of the Catholic Church? Why is it that Smith’s changes disagree with the manuscripts that the Book of Mormon says were pure at that time? 12. Such discrepancies between Smith’s translation and the ancient manuscripts only suspect Joseph Smith of serious fraud and deception.

“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”—Proverbs 30:5-6

CON'T

“My pages don't stick”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#14052 Jul 15, 2011
More breakoffs from the mormon cult:


United Order of Equality, Ephraim Peterson, 1909
The Church of Jesus Christ of Israel, J. H. Sherwood
Order of Aaron, Maurice L. Glendenning
Church of Freedom of Latter Day Saints, 1950s
Zion's Order of the Sons of Levi, Marl V. Kilgore, 1951
The Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times, Joel F. LeBaron
The Church of the Firstborn, Ross W. LeBaron, 1955
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter Day Saints, William C. Conway, 1958
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, John Forsgren, 1960
Church of Jesus Christ, William Goldman, 1960
LDS Scripture Researchers/Believe God Society, Sherman Russell Lloyd, 1965
The Church of the Body and of the Spirit of Jessu Christ, Max Powers, 1965
United Order of the Saints of Guadeloupe, Michel Gamiette, 1966
United Order of the Family of Christ, David E. Desmond, 1966
Split from Zion's Order of the Sons of Levi, Eldon Taylor, 1969
Homosexual Church of Jesus Christ, Denver, Colorado, 1972
Latter Day Saints Church, N.S. Park, 1972
The Church of the Lamb of God, Ervil M. LeBaron, 1972
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mikhail Krupenia, 1972
The New Jerusalem Group, Kathryn Carter, 1972
The Watchmen on the Towers of Latter Day Israel, Miltenberg, Braun, 1973
Church of Jesus Christ in Solemn Assembly, Alexnader Joseph, 1974
Evangelical Church of Christ, Church of the New Covenant in Christ, John W. Bryant, 1974
Split form Zion's Order of the Sons of Levi, Barton Kilgore, 1975
Affirmation, 1975
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Robert Simons, 1975
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times, Bruce Wakeham, 1975
Aaronic Order Break-off, 1977
Christ's Church, Inc., Gerald Peterson, 1978
Church of Jesus Christ, Art Bulla, 1978
The Restorers or School of the Prophets, Robert C. Crossfield, 1979
Zion's First International Church, LeeAnn Walker, 1980
The Free Will Mormon Church, Franklin Lee Coleman, 1980
Church of Jesus Christ, Jorge Mora, 1981
Sons Ahman Israel, Davied Israel, 1981
Samoan LDS Church, New Zealand, 1981
The Millennial Church of Jesus Christ, Leo P. Evoniuk, 1981
Peyote Way Church of God, Immanuel P. Trujillo, 1981
The Chruch of Jesus Christ of the Saints in Zion, Ken Asay, 1984
Break from the Church of Jesus Christ in Solemn Assembly, 1984
Church of Jesus Christ of All Latter-day Saints or Restoration Church of Jesus Christ, Antonio A. Feliz, 1985
Church of Christ of Latter-day Saints, Robert P. Madison, 1985
Church of Christ the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times, Siegfried J. Widmar, 1985
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Fundamentalists, Wight Family, 1985
Mormon Fundamentalists, England, Alan and Marian Munn, 1986

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