Mayor James Bellar: Secularists and Separationists are Terrorists

Usually terrorists are people who break the law to achieve some political goal. But what about people who insist that the law be followed and challenge someone who is themselves breaking the law? Well, in Whiteville, Tennessee, that's terrorism too -- or maybe it's the only form of terrorism, I'm not sure.

[FreeThinker82]

Mayor, this guy just handed your ass to you on a silver platter. I can't help but think of all the negative attention you could have avoided if had not ignored those first letters.

[Jill]

The mayor brings this stuff on all citizens Whiteville. He is a total embarrassment not to mention bully to those who don't view him as the all powerful wizard of Whiteville. He has done nothing but rile up people and bring out the worst in others who claim to be Christian (but only if it is theirs where you backstab, lie, cheat and steal six days a week then go to church and think that alone will get you into heaven, rather than what is in your heart). I hear they have a cop or two who are mysoginists but who love to also bully anyone who has a brain and questions lots of questionable things in that town. This comes from people who have lived their most or all of their lives.

[Observer]

Jill wrote:

The mayor brings this stuff on all citizens Whiteville. He is a total embarrassment not to mention bully to those who don't view him as the all powerful wizard of Whiteville. He has done nothing but rile up people and bring out the worst in others who claim to be Christian (but only if it is theirs where you backstab, lie, cheat and steal six days a week then go to church and think that alone will get you into heaven, rather than what is in your heart). I hear they have a cop or two who are mysoginists but who love to also bully anyone who has a brain and questions lots of questionable things in that town. This comes from people who have lived their most or all of their lives.

WOW you are full of anger and hatred!

[FreeThinker82]

Observer wrote:

<quoted text>
WOW you are full of anger and hatred!

Your assertion is irrelevant as it is possible to be both angry and correct simultaneously. The question you should be addressing is where is she wrong?

Stop appealing to red herrings and just address her statement, nobody gives a rip what you think if her emotional state.

[Silas Deane]

FreeThinker82 wrote:

Mayor, this guy just handed your ass to you on a silver platter. I can't help but think of all the negative attention you could have avoided if had not ignored those first letters.

Mayor, I want to be the next one to "hand your ass to you on a silver platter" You should know now that you can't let a group of old ladies whose husbands fought for this country (which the athiest don't appreciate) and have gone on to Jesus talk you into anything! The complainers shit their pants and are afraid to come to board meetings but tell us its OK to put a cross on our own land and don't hesitate to call on the town employees to do something for them. They can't comprehend the situation. They can't grip that terrorists are everywhere. Anyone who uses their constitutional rights in this day and time to steal the wishes of a group of old ladies I consider to be a terrorist too. You people from Bolivar need to know tne Mayor ain't gonna quit. Do you remember who was responsible for getting the prison population back where it belonged? That was quite a bit of money.

[Observer]

Jill wrote:

The mayor brings this stuff on all citizens Whiteville. He is a total embarrassment not to mention bully to those who don't view him as the all powerful wizard of Whiteville. He has done nothing but rile up people and bring out the worst in others who claim to be Christian (but only if it is theirs where you backstab, lie, cheat and steal six days a week then go to church and think that alone will get you into heaven, rather than what is in your heart). I hear they have a cop or two who are mysoginists but who love to also bully anyone who has a brain and questions lots of questionable things in that town. This comes from people who have lived their most or all of their lives.

Thank you freethinker for instructing me as to how I should reply. Somehow I felt my emotions and opinions were as important as anyone elses. Jill's statement is not correct. The Mayor is not a total embarrassment and has been elected to his office for almost 20 years,(who's been voting?) and if you have not been in trouble, as in law breaking, harassing your neighbors, etc., there is no reason to come in contact with the police, other than casually, whether you have a brain or not. I am a Christian and I am not in the habit of backstabbing, lying, cheating, or stealing six days a week. Not even one day a week. The grace of God will allow me to enter heaven, not church on Sunday and you could not possibly know what is in my heart, as I do not what is in yours. If you do not want assumptions made about your belief or nonbelief, do not make them about mine. Facts please. Oh and I too have lived here most or all of my life.

[FreeThinker82]

^That is more like it Observer. Now she has something of substance with which she may muster her reply.

Jill, your turn.

[FreeThinker82]

Silas Deane wrote:

Anyone who uses their constitutional rights in this day and time to steal the wishes of a group of old ladies I consider to be a terrorist too. You people from Bolivar need to know tne Mayor ain't gonna quit. Do you remember who was responsible for getting the prison population back where it belonged? That was quite a bit of money.

OK, the first half of your reply was just hyperbole so no need in taking any of that seriously. The second half which I quoted is what I am going to address.

First, nobody used their constitutional rights to steal anything. The separation of church and state does not fall within the purview of "rights" in the sense that you exercise a "right" to separation of church and state.  You have a right to worship and you have a right not to worship. Church & state separation is merely a consequence of a secular government which is the best way to represent all the people. It is because people have a right to whatever religion they choose that a secular (natural) government is required so as to protect the rights of all citizens.

If Bellar had paid attention in civics class he might have known this before hand and not made such an obvious blunder. Now he and you apparently are having to learn the hard way which involves me spending my personal time explaining all this while garnering a bad reputation for your city. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind, I use to be a religious wish-thinker and might have said some of the same ignorant things you guys have. I just discovered the benefits of rationalism and began to study history from primary sources, but I digress.

It matters not the age of the person nor does it matter their gender. Anyone, young or old, male or female, black, white or in between, who attempts to insert their specific religious symbol or dogma into government must be stopped.  Our constitutional form of government is prohibiting from establishing one religion over all others.

When you really think about it, the government owned property in Whiteville is but a small fraction of what encompasses the entire city.  Why not put out by the highway in the first place, on private property.  That would not have violated the government's required neutrality toward religion. Instead you insisted on hoisting your symbol up on the water tower, with a spot light on it to boot, because by george Whiteville is a Christian city and, like Bellar and others have said, everyone else can just move the hell on.

I'm really sorry Silas, but until you actually grasp the concept and the benefit of secular government you will continue to be angry at those of us who do. You will continue to make the fallacious assertion that we are someone infringing upon your rights when no such thing has occured.

[Jill]

I may not have been perfect in using terms as "total" but he is an embarrassment to some who have spoken to others outside of the town. They do have a right to their opinion just as you do, it probably just boils down to what you have experienced.
The fact remains, I have heard audio of some things in which there are those who abuse their position, shall we say. There can be many reasons for why someone would come in contact with a police officer and just not as an offender. With all due respect, life is not just as you wish it to be. It is my understanding that a few there do profile others who are not considered to be in the "inner circle" or part of the accepted community. Since I do not have permission from those who have shared this, they seem to be fearful for what appears to be good reason, I can only attest to what I have seen and heard on taped/recorded media.
I am a Christian but you have to admit that not everyone lives up to the teachings of Christ. Not that anyone can be perfect, but some just seem to exploit the current fad of "just believing" and have left out the Ten Commandments and the positive teachings of Jesus regarding forgiving transgressors as well as not being one. For me, it was never the cross, it was it's use as a political tool to get people upset. Personally, I wonder why someone doesn't have better things to do with their life than complain but maybe they were fed up with the snobbish and intolerant attitude that some in Whiteville exude. Maybe you should consider that not everyone is treated as fairly as you and re-read your Bible when it comes to compassion. I wish you well and God be with you.

[Silas Deane]

FreeThinker82 wrote:

<quoted text>
OK, the first half of your reply was just hyperbole so no need in taking any of that seriously. The second half which I quoted is what I am going to address.
First, nobody used their constitutional rights to steal anything. The separation of church and state does not fall within the purview of "rights" in the sense that you exercise a "right" to separation of church and state.  You have a right to worship and you have a right not to worship. Church & state separation is merely a consequence of a secular government which is the best way to represent all the people. It is because people have a right to whatever religion they choose that a secular (natural) government is required so as to protect the rights of all citizens.
If Bellar had paid attention in civics class he might have known this before hand and not made such an obvious blunder. Now he and you apparently are having to learn the hard way which involves me spending my personal time explaining all this while garnering a bad reputation for your city. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind, I use to be a religious wish-thinker and might have said some of the same ignorant things you guys have. I just discovered the benefits of rationalism and began to study history from primary sources, but I digress.
It matters not the age of the person nor does it matter their gender. Anyone, young or old, male or female, black, white or in between, who attempts to insert their specific religious symbol or dogma into government must be stopped.  Our constitutional form of government is prohibiting from establishing one religion over all others.
When you really think about it, the government owned property in Whiteville is but a small fraction of what encompasses the entire city.  Why not put out by the highway in the first place, on private property.  That would not have violated the government's required neutrality toward religion. Instead you insisted on hoisting your symbol up on the water tower, with a spot light on it to boot, because by george Whiteville is a Christian city and, like Bellar and others have said, everyone else can just move the hell on.
I'm really sorry Silas, but until you actually grasp the concept and the benefit of secular government you will continue to be angry at those of us who do. You will continue to make the fallacious assertion that we are someone infringing upon your rights when no such thing has occured.

Hey Freethinker 82, You keep repeating yourself. We know that you can't put any religious sign on governmental property. Ok, we got that and took the cross down. But the slurring of a man that is bold enough to take the job and try to do the best he can is unacceptable. I was trying to get you to see this without having to explain it to you. As for the age of an individual, I believe it's like holding a door for the elderly (and they all deserve it). If you were a Christian at one time, maybe a trip to the Holy Land would help. Try saying Devil, get thee behind me. Life is good and it can be for you and your family too. Reach out to people who care. James looks like he is trying to show you he cares but you think it is a trap. He has accomplished a lot of good for the town. But like all things, he is human too and we don't follow blindly. I appreciate you donating your time now what I don't understand is, prohibiting the free exercise thereof. If you have the time would you explain it to me.

[FreeThinker82]

Silas Deane wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Freethinker 82, You keep repeating yourself. We know that you can't put any religious sign on governmental property. Ok, we got that and took the cross down. But the slurring of a man that is bold enough to take the job and try to do the best he can is unacceptable. I was trying to get you to see this without having to explain it to you. As for the age of an individual, I believe it's like holding a door for the elderly (and they all deserve it). If you were a Christian at one time, maybe a trip to the Holy Land would help. Try saying Devil, get thee behind me. Life is good and it can be for you and your family too. Reach out to people who care. James looks like he is trying to show you he cares but you think it is a trap. He has accomplished a lot of good for the town. But like all things, he is human too and we don't follow blindly. I appreciate you donating your time now what I don't understand is, prohibiting the free exercise thereof. If you have the time would you explain it to me.

Slurring? I point out that James Bellar is purposefully misusing inflammatory words like terrorist to describe proponents of secularism and you say I am the one slurring him. You sure know how to completely turn the tables around.

Holding doors for the elderly is great, being elderly however is no excuse to for having your city government establish a defacto official religion for the city.

The "Holy Land" is only holy to those who actually think a bunch of magical stuff happened over there. The "Holy Land" has led to so much unnecessary fighting and death that it is pathetic; all over a strip of desert that all sides thing their god gave to them.

OK, the part about telling your devil to get behind me is laughable. Firstly, you have provided not one shred of evidence that this being exists anymore than your god. There are no such things as devils or angels or genies etc. They are all mythical creatures conjured by desert goat herders or stolen from competing religions of the time. How a grown person like you can still believe in magic as it were real is beyond me.

Life is good for me and my family and it isn't that way because I kiss the invisible ass of some sky wizard.

I don't think Bellar is setting a trap, I said he is being two faces in continuing to hold the ignorant position that secularist are terrorist while claiming that we "terrorist" are welcome to come visit his town. I don't need his invitation quite frankly, I come through there on business regardless of his invite.

You don't understanding "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? That portion of the first Amendment guarantees that people may join whatever cult that wish and worship whatever invisible being that choose and the government cannot stop them. You will not that this applies to the people, as the government belongs to all the people it may not have any say in religious matters.

Putting your cults cross up on a government water tower is where your "free exercise thereof" ceased as you were using government to erecting an offical religion.

The free exercise thereof is alive and well in Whiteville. White crosses are popping up like weeds all along the highway. GREAT! Private property owners exercising their religious freedoms by expressing their faith with replica execution devices. That's what makes America great right?

[Silas Deane]

My My This looks like alot of your posts. I said we have it and took down the cross. I heard at the Holy Land it is like God is sitting right next to you. You said you once believed so I thought maybe that closeness would help you find your way home. As far as God, angels and devil; either you do or you don't but don't has a big penalty for someone and their family. Glad you are happy with your life. It's what you make out of it. In my case I have alot of help, God. Just wondering who in town do you think might be a terrorist. I think your answer for me is the way the courts think and one day they might wake up. Your last comment makes me think you are leaning our way and America is great.

[FreeThinker82]

Silas Deane wrote:

My My This looks like alot of your posts. I said we have it and took down the cross. I heard at the Holy Land it is like God is sitting right next to you. You said you once believed so I thought maybe that closeness would help you find your way home. As far as God, angels and devil; either you do or you don't but don't has a big penalty for someone and their family. Glad you are happy with your life. It's what you make out of it. In my case I have alot of help, God. Just wondering who in town do you think might be a terrorist. I think your answer for me is the way the courts think and one day they might wake up. Your last comment makes me think you are leaning our way and America is great.

Well actually I don't think you get it for one reason. In your previous post you mentioned "free exercise thereof" as if to infer that removal of the cross was infringing upon your free exercise of religion. If you did actually "get it" you would not have made such a remark and I would not have had to explain it to you again.

I was once a believer, yes, but going to Israel and "feeling" something is no substitute for evidence. Christianity is not "home" as you say and it never was. Christianity kept me from gaining real tangible knowledge of the world around me and kept me ignorant. It wasn't until I finally realized that every argument used to defend god was fallacious and that belief in such a being made no difference that I was able to throw off the mind forged manacle of religion.

Why would not believing in mythical creatures have a "big penalty" for me? You are not the first to engage in these kinds of remarks. You avoid directly asserting their existence because that would require you support it with some kind of evidence yet you make remarks like the one in your post that if I don't believe they are real then there will be some kind of penalty against me.

Let's break it down, for their to be a penalty against me those entities need to be real, for those entities to be considered real their needs to be evidence to demonstrate their existence, as of now no evidence exists which makes them mythical, therefore your comment that there is a penalty is utter nonsense.

God does not help you, everything you have accomplished you have accomplished on your own and it is a pity that you do not take credit for your hard work and throw it away on imaginary beings. You wish to make yourself a slave to this being and have convinced yourself that in doing so you will not have to die. It is the fear of your own mortality and the desire to prevent the enviable that encourages you to delude yourself with these notions of god and the afterlife.

Nobody in Whiteville is a terrorist because nobody is threatening violence.

America is great but it is because we have a government based upon limited powers and liberty for all the people, not just one particular religious sect.

As a non-believer I may not particularly like the idea that I will cease to exist one day and that the party will go on without me. I might not like knowing that this planet of ours will eventually be destroyed when the sun enters its red giant phase. I might not even like knowing that the universe appears to be winding down to maximum entropy and heat death. Although I might not like these things, the evidence for them is overwhelming while the evidence that we will all meet again in some theme park (one nice and one nasty) is nonexistent. I must go where the evidence leads, however disquieting that conclusion may be. I would rather embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable.

[Jill]

There may not be violence in Whiteville, yet but there is some intimidation by a couple of people.

[james bellar]

Jill wrote:

The mayor brings this stuff on all citizens Whiteville. He is a total embarrassment not to mention bully to those who don't view him as the all powerful wizard of Whiteville. He has done nothing but rile up people and bring out the worst in others who claim to be Christian (but only if it is theirs where you backstab, lie, cheat and steal six days a week then go to church and think that alone will get you into heaven, rather than what is in your heart). I hear they have a cop or two who are mysoginists but who love to also bully anyone who has a brain and questions lots of questionable things in that town. This comes from people who have lived their most or all of their lives.

yes i am the mayor. this heading needs to be corrected. i never glorified them by calling them secularists and seperationists. i called them terrorists and cowards for that is exactly what they are. as for your post like so many others is ii the 3rd person. you dont live here so your opinion does not matter. i have been elcted 4 times. somebody likeme

james bellar mayor 11=2=2011 8;26pm

[james bellar]

FreeThinker82 wrote:

Mayor, this guy just handed your ass to you on a silver platter. I can't help but think of all the negative attention you could have avoided if had not ignored those first letters.

dont think so. he,she or whatever does not live here so there opinion does not matter.

as far as my ignoring the letters. you got to admit it kept it up for a full year and by all accounts from my citzens it is still on the water tower.

go look. this has your fingerprits all over it. anyone can put these up

james bellar

11-2-2011 8;35pm

[james bellar]

btw. how many more sites do you have on the web. i may need to visit them

james bellar

11-2-2011 8;37pm

[FreeThinker82]

Mr. Bellar,

Yea, I don't have any other sites on the web. I have been responding here mostly and just recently on YouTube. I did make that comment to you on the AtheistTV website but that I used the same screen name so you would know it was me.

Mr. Bellar, like I said in the video response, there is a difference between reality, where there is now a piece of scrap attached to the top of your water tower, and imagination, where you choose to trick yourself into thinking something is there that is not.

I was really behind you putting it out by the highway like you originally said you would. After all Jesus was crucified at ground level right? Instead of doing the sensible thing, something that would have still done the job of projecting your towns religious beliefs, you thought you would do a half-ass removal as your way of giving the FFRF the middle finger.

You actually went above and beyond what the FFRF was asking of you. Not only did the FFRF manage to make you take the cross down, it is down by the way, you are only fooling yourself, they also pissed you off to the point that you vandalized your own religious symbol.

Even though I don't put any stock in your symbol I would recon that others do and I imagine a good number of them think what you did was sacrilege. Did the people who put up the money have any input on your order to cut up their cross?

I'll address more of your statement in my next video. These replies get lost after a while but YouTube never goes away.

[MrDesoto1]

james bellar wrote:

<quoted text>
dont think so. he,she or whatever does not live here so there opinion does not matter.
as far as my ignoring the letters. you got to admit it kept it up for a full year and by all accounts from my citzens it is still on the water tower.
go look. this has your fingerprits all over it. anyone can put these up
james bellar
11-2-2011 8;35pm

S0, when are you going to start being a law abiding citizen?

[E.merger]

FreeThinker82 wrote:

Mr. Bellar,

Yea, I don't have any other sites on the web. I have been responding here mostly and just recently on YouTube. I did make that comment to you on the AtheistTV website but that I used the same screen name so you would know it was me.

Mr. Bellar, like I said in the video response, there is a difference between reality, where there is now a piece of scrap attached to the top of your water tower, and imagination, where you choose to trick yourself into thinking something is there that is not.

I was really behind you putting it out by the highway like you originally said you would. After all Jesus was crucified at ground level right? Instead of doing the sensible thing, something that would have still done the job of projecting your towns religious beliefs, you thought you would do a half-ass removal as your way of giving the FFRF the middle finger.

You actually went above and beyond what the FFRF was asking of you. Not only did the FFRF manage to make you take the cross down, it is down by the way, you are only fooling yourself, they also pissed you off to the point that you vandalized your own religious symbol.

Even though I don't put any stock in your symbol I would recon that others do and I imagine a good number of them think what you did was sacrilege. Did the people who put up the money have any input on your order to cut up their cross?

I'll address more of your statement in my next video. These replies get lost after a while but YouTube never goes away.

John Trembley

I think your approach is entertaining for those of us who agree with
your basic premise. However, it is likely to be counterproductive with
undecideds and provide fuel for the other side. I am not going explain
specifically why I think this is the case. If you can't figure that
out, then you are as clueless about being persuasive as a Whiteville
Christian is in regard to the establishment clause and how it has been
interpreted for more then 60 years. It would be fun to watch non
believers, who have strong cases on many fronts, shoot themseleves in
the foot repeatedly, if I didn't think that the results of their
action (stiring up the wasp nest of semi psychotic, brain washed
Christians voters) wasn't potentially dangerous. These people vote.
They don't need anymore reasons to vote for against sensible secular
government and for Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry types at all
levels. Winning tiny battles while giving the enemies a rallying point
is a bad idea. Winning the battles graciously makes more sense.
However there is a much better way to win this war that no one seems
to be on to.