Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70946 Apr 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps true, but I see a loss of ORGANIZED religious affiliation a first step towards a loss of belief in general. Baby steps. And I would argue that there are those (myself included) that have taken that least leap away from faith with the aid of information more readily available on the Internet - Debates, Philosophical arguments, firmer understanding of logical fallacies, deeper understanding of scientific principles and explanations, etc...
Waiting to see the data on that which supports an actual trend

The Pew survey was roundly criticized for implying that same idea with no actual support. Thats why I mentioned it.

No doubt that there are people that fall into your camp. But that can be potentially anecdotal as any other observation to be used as a basis for a claim. I offered my anecdotes as well. Both outcomes are conceivable.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#70947 Apr 6, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
Deepakese: The Woo-Woo Master Deepak Chopra Speaks
Deepak Chopra is unhappy with my brand of skepticism--the type that identifies woo-woo nonsense and calls it for what it is: baloney - By
Michael Shermer
Last week Deepak and I debated life after death on Larry King Live, which did not include Larry King and was not live, but did feature guest host Jeff Probst, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Dinesh D'Souza, a reincarnation researcher, a young boy alleged to be a reincarnated World War II fighter pilot, and Deepak rolling his eyes and mumbling to his table-mates in the New York studio while I was alone in the Hollywood studio trying to get an edge in wordwise. You can read my account of the show at TrueSlant.
No one uses fuzzy language more adroitly than Deepak Chopra, who has an uncanny knack for stringing together words and phrases that, with his punctuated delivery style, actually sounds like something intelligible is being said.(All quotes are from the complete transcript of the show available here.) Deepak Chopra is obviously a smart guy, and maybe it's just me, but what do you make of Deepak's explanation for Near-Death Experiences?:
"There are traditions that say the in-body experience is a socially induced collective hallucination. We do not exist in the body. The body exists in us. We do not exist in the world. The world exists in us."
Maybe I'm dim witted, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what this means. Likewise this ditty on life and death:
"Birth and death are space-time events in the continuum of life. So the opposite of life is not death. The opposite of death is birth. And the opposite of birth is death. And life is the continuum of birth and death, which goes on and on."
Uh? Can someone please tell me what this means? Likewise this gem of obfuscation:
"And life is, as he said, it's a process. It's one process. It's perception, cognition, emotions, moods, imagination, insight, intuition, creativity, choice making. These are not the activities of your networks. You orchestrate these activities through your synaptic networks. But if I ask you to imagine the color red or look at the color red, there's no red in your brain. There's just electrical firings."
If these "are not the activities of your networks" what are they? Oh, they are "just electrical firings." Uh? Isn't that a contradiction? What am I missing here?
During the show segment on reincarnation, I asked Deepak if the little boy's body is now occupied by the soul of a World War II fighter pilot, where is the boy's soul? Chopra offered this jewel of Deepakese:
"Imagine that you're looking at an ocean and you see lots of waves today. And tomorrow you see a fewer number of waves. It's not so turbulent. What you call a person actually is a pattern of behavior of a universal consciousness. There is no such thing as Jeff, because what we call Jeff is a constantly transforming consciousness that appears as a certain personality, a certain mind, a certain ego, a certain body. But, you know, we had a different Jeff when you were a teenager. We had a different Jeff when you were a baby. Which one of you is the real Jeff?"
Guest host Jeff Probst looked as confused as I felt.
Deepak has challenged me to a debate. I accept. I'm looking forward to collecting many more quotable maxims from the master of Deepakese.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-shermer...
Have never been a real fan of Deepak, though I understand what eh was trying to do initially - which was to bring a generic Eastern form of philosophy to the masses. He obviously suffers from over simplification. But I get where the roots of several of his ideas are from.

I think your issue is that you are a scientific realist. Nothing wrong with that, but not the companion I would want to visit the Louvre with. OTOH you would be interesting to discuss Cosmos with. Different strokes.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70948 Apr 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Have never been a real fan of Deepak, though I understand what eh was trying to do initially - which was to bring a generic Eastern form of philosophy to the masses. He obviously suffers from over simplification. But I get where the roots of several of his ideas are from.
I think your issue is that you are a scientific realist. Nothing wrong with that, but not the companion I would want to visit the Louvre with. OTOH you would be interesting to discuss Cosmos with. Different strokes.
Hmmmm, are you implying that scientific realists can't appreciate and discuss art?

And speaking of Cosmos, have you watched the latest incarnation with Neil deGrasse Tyson. Not bad, but definitely not Carl Sagan.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70949 Apr 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
does art or literature or dance add anything to our "knowledge"?
Art, literature and dance - yes

Pseudo-scientific, mystical double speak - no

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70950 Apr 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Waiting to see the data on that which supports an actual trend
The Pew survey was roundly criticized for implying that same idea with no actual support. Thats why I mentioned it.
No doubt that there are people that fall into your camp. But that can be potentially anecdotal as any other observation to be used as a basis for a claim. I offered my anecdotes as well. Both outcomes are conceivable.
No disagreement here. I had the same complaint about the pew survey. And I do think spiritualism will rise as organized religion falls. I just don't happen to see that as a good thing.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70951 Apr 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
be a good place to post his gonadal status as well.
If we're all going to start posting every time we have one of those......we may run out of space and time for the religious chat.

If it were junior high....forget about. Try all day!!

But now, I've said too much!

:))

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70952 Apr 6, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

This post is more appropriate as a Facebook update.

No one here has "friended" you as far as I know.

Consider my indifference to this information to be profound.
Hi Former,

How're you?

When're you taking that trip to exotic Istanbul?

How's your job going?

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70953 Apr 6, 2014
ORIGINS

The origin of the cosmos remains shrouded in mystery and reductionistic models have failed to explain it. Similarly, the origin of sentience remains beyond the reach of crass materialistic science and the appearance of sentient species with simple/complex biological structures also remains unexplained. The fundamental questions on the origins will never be explained through crass materialism.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70954 Apr 6, 2014
To keep the funds flowing, to promote the flawed idea of reductionism and to prevent the general public from seeing through the lies, the scientific community has perfected the art of verbal sophistry drawing on erroneous inferences of data that are at the best highly inadequate and often contradictory.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70955 Apr 6, 2014
COSMOS - UNMANIFEST COMPLEXITY TO MANIFEST COMPLEXITY

1) I have proposed a 3 tier model of cosmology that begins with devolution of a complex system and ends in the appearance of living organisms.

The three stages are:

a) DEVOLUTION of the cosmic complexity which could have taken place via the Big Bang

b) INVOLUTION of the manifested complex information and

c) EVOLUTION (emergence) of the complex information from a state of involution leading to the graded appearance of life forms - that best explains the origin and complexity of nature and being, whereas the scientific model of cosmology that seeks to explain everything complex (higher information content) as a gradual buildup from simplicity (less information content) is flawed and ends in serious contradictions.

2) Complexity can only arise from complexity. If the information to form a complex structure exists in involved form then it's just a matter of a series of emergences (under appropriate stimuli) from the state of involution that brings the principle governing the complex form into manifestation.

3) This 3 tiered approach, as a broad outline, that I have suggested makes perfect sense and does away with the artificial need of trying to explain away complexity especially where the perplexing problem of the fine tuning of the universe is concerned by proposing a fictional MULTIVERSE (that juggles with the probability theory or that of chance in a more foolish manner and fails to explain the origin of the meta-laws) and in the context of the LIVING WORLD by talking nonsense about how insentient chemicals somehow combined by chance to produce sentience and how a single cell divided and underwent natural selection and mutations that ultimately gave rise to higher life forms with all their complexities when it is apparent that neither can insentient chemicals combine to produce life nor can a simple cell with limited information give rise to complex biological forms having much higher information content and besides there's no evidence in support any of these hallucinatory ideas.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#70956 Apr 6, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Waiting to see the data on that which supports an actual trend
The Pew survey was roundly criticized for implying that same idea with no actual support. Thats why I mentioned it.
No doubt that there are people that fall into your camp. But that can be potentially anecdotal as any other observation to be used as a basis for a claim. I offered my anecdotes as well. Both outcomes are conceivable.
A book from 1824 lamenting the at most small increase in believers since the ages of it's hardpressed inception. In absolute numbers close to zilch so to say.
Mind at least four episodes of plaque in the meantime.
But Mahomet considered as the competition.

I suppose people are more naief nowadays or go off on a tangent, as if a different church would remedy the issue.
Or you might say that diversity works it's wonders.

http://books.google.nl/books...
pg 235
best take the FrontPage and leaf to the content, press blue.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#70957 Apr 6, 2014
head -> desk
devolution.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70958 Apr 7, 2014
"He is born in vain, who, having attained the human birth, so difficult to get, does not attempt to realize the Supreme Self in this very life."

- Sri Ramakrishna Paramhans

(Guru of Swami Vivekananda)

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70959 Apr 7, 2014
UNIFICATION OF MIND-MATTER:

"Quantum theory thus reveals a basic oneness of the universe. It shows that we cannot decompose the world into independently existing smallest units. As we penetrate into matter, nature does not show us any isolated "building blocks," but rather appears as a complicated web of relations between the various parts of the whole. These relations always include the observer in an essential way. The human observer constitute the final link in the chain of observational processes, and the properties of any atomic object can be understood only in terms of the object's interaction with the observer.”

&#8213; Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70960 Apr 7, 2014
EXISTENCE-NON EXISTENCE

“Subatomic particles do not exist but rather show 'tendencies to exist', and atomic events do not occur with certainty at definite times and in definite ways, but rather show 'tendencies to occur'.”

- Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70961 Apr 7, 2014
CARTESIAN WORLD

“A person functioning exclusively in the Cartesian mode may be free from manifest symptoms but cannot be considered mentally healthy. Such individuals typically lead ego-centred, competitive, goal-oriented lives. Overpreoccupied with their past and their future, they tend to have a limited awarenessof the present and thus a limited ability to derive satisfaction from ordinary activities in everyday life. They concentrate on manipulating the external world and measure their living standard by the quantity of material possessions, while they become ever more alienated from their inner world and unable to appreciate the process of life. For people whose existence is dominated by this mode of experience no level of wealth, power, or fame will bring genuine satisfaction”

- Fritjof Capra

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70962 Apr 7, 2014
GENUINE MENTAL HEALTH

“Genuine mental health would involve a balanced interplay of both modes of experience, a way of life in which one's identification with the Ego is playful and tentative rather than absolute and mandatory, while the concern with material possessions is pragmatic rather than obsessive.”

- Fritjof Capra, The Turning Point: Science, Society, and the Rising Culture

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70963 Apr 7, 2014
STATO-DYNAMISM

"In Indian philosophy, the main terms used by Vedantists and Buddhists have dynamic connotations. The word Brahman is derived from the Sanskrit root brih - to grow - and thus suggests a reality which is dynamic and alive. The Upanishads refer to Brahman as ‘this unformed, immortal, moving’, thus associating it with motion even though it transcends all forms.’ The Rig Veda uses another term to express the dynamic character of the universe, the term Rita. This word comes from the root ri - to move. In its phenomenal aspect, the cosmic One is thus intrinsically dynamic, and the apprehension of its dynamic nature is basic to all schools of Eastern mysticism.
They all emphasize that the universe has to be grasped dynamically, as it moves, vibrates and dances."

-(Fritjof Capra, 1975)

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70964 Apr 7, 2014
SYSTEMS VIEW & EASTERN MYSTICISM

"The Eastern mystics see the universe as an inseparable web, whose interconnections are dynamic and not static. The cosmic web is alive; it moves and grows and changes continually. Modern physics, too, has come to conceive of the universe as such a web of relations and, like Eastern mysticism, has recognized that this web is intrinsically dynamic. The dynamic aspect of matter arises in quantum theory as a consequence of the wave-nature of subatomic particles, and is even more essential in relativity theory, where the unification of space and time implies that the being of matter cannot be separated from its activity. The properties of subatomic particles can therefore only be understood in a dynamic context; in terms of movement, interaction and transformation."

-(Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics)

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70965 Apr 7, 2014
ECO-AWARENESS, ONENESS & YOGA:

"Deep Ecology is rooted in a perception of reality that goes beyond the scientific framework to an intuitive awareness of the oneness of all life, the interdependence of its multiple manifestations and its cycles of change and transformation. When the concept of the human spirit is understood in this sense, its mode of consciousness in which the individual feels connected to the cosmos as a whole, it becomes clear that ecological awareness is truly spiritual. Indeed the idea of the individual being linked to the cosmos is expressed in the Latin root of the word religion, religare (to bind strongly), as well as the Sanskrit yoga, which means union."

- Fritjof Capra, Turning Point, 1982

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Wethersfield Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 4 min An NFL Fan 1,419,694
News Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds ... (Dec '08) 2 hr Not Documented 61,059
News Israeli troops begin Gaza pullout as Hamas decl... (Jan '09) 5 hr Ize Found 70,958
News Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision (Jan '08) 9 hr John-K 311,627
News The 25 Most Dangerous Cities in the U.S. Are Mo... (Nov '10) Sat Hipocrit 20,505
Chris Powell Editor of the JI investigated for ... Aug 22 HCourantsub 1
News SEA CLIFF: Paramedic arrested on child harm cha... (Jun '08) Aug 21 Greg 55

Wethersfield Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Wethersfield Mortgages