Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 20 comments on the Jun 21, 2008, Newsday story titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: May 12

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#70616 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
But for over 20 years HIV has not been a "gay disease." So one shouldn't associate the two..
My point is the only way to keep from swapping body fluids is to NOT have sex
Very catholic point.
Abolish The Fed

Stamford, CT

#70617 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
No evidence to back up that claim.
Again, life experience.
Women that have had horrible experiences with a man are very bitter and anti-man.
Likewise many atheists have had bad religious experiences within the church, very anti-religion.
Abolish The Fed

Stamford, CT

#70618 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Amway marketing of nutritional supplements
I agree with your former comment that the Gluten thing is way overblown. Total bandwagon effect.
Also, I find it interesting that society is swinging back towards fat, in milk. Makes sense to me.
There is always a band wagon effect on ideas, but good ideas have the momentum to change markets, and the ever growing gluten free isles at the grocery store are evident of the free market at work.
On the contrary of health the government protection racquet known as the FDA has dropped the ball once again protecting the public against the rubber ykga mat chemicals used in the subway bread.
Luckily the free market has changed subways mind, no thanks to the bought and paid for FDA.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#70619 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, life experience.
Women that have had horrible experiences with a man are very bitter and anti-man.
Likewise many atheists have had bad religious experiences within the church, very anti-religion.
I don't believe in god and have had not any bad religious experiences within the church or any other temples.

You are generalizing too much. I know of people who turn into atheism after being sexually abused by a priest for a very long time and saw no support from the Church. But that is just a tiny part.

Personally, I think that sexual attack is not a good reason to turn to Atheism.

I think that a really good part of people turned into atheism after a process of rationalization over the so called holy texts.

Bottom line: There are many ways to arrive to be atheism.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70620 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, life experience.
Women that have had horrible experiences with a man are very bitter and anti-man.
Likewise many atheists have had bad religious experiences within the church, very anti-religion.
Yes and people who have had a bad experience eating peanuts tend to avoid them.

So maybe atheists are just allergic to religion.

Mystery solved.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#70621 Apr 1, 2014
CORRECTION:

Bottom line: There are many ways to arrive to be atheist.
Abolish The Fed

Stamford, CT

#70622 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and people who have had a bad experience eating peanuts tend to avoid them.
So maybe atheists are just allergic to religion.
Mystery solved.
Yes but those with peanut allergies don't run around telling everyone how bad peanuts are and how unrealistic peanut eating is. And ask them to prove that peanuts taste great.
And lobby government to ban peanut eating on public property.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70623 Apr 1, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in god and have had not any bad religious experiences within the church or any other temples.
You are generalizing too much. I know of people who turn into atheism after being sexually abused by a priest for a very long time and saw no support from the Church. But that is just a tiny part.
Personally, I think that sexual attack is not a good reason to turn to Atheism.
I think that a really good part of people turned into atheism after a process of rationalization over the so called holy texts.
Bottom line: There are many ways to arrive to be atheism.
I think that to be intellectually honest, we should all start with the null hypothesis (atheism) and then make the decision from there.

This is where ATF's argument falls apart.

He thinks one needs a reason to stop believing rather than a reason to start.

Seems counterintuitive to me.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#70624 Apr 1, 2014
Abolish The Fed wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes but those with peanut allergies don't run around telling everyone how bad peanuts are and how unrealistic peanut eating is. And ask them to prove that peanuts taste great.
And lobby government to ban peanut eating on public property.
I thought you were a sort of a libertarian? You don't believe in separation of church and state?

You may have had a bad experience with atheists. You'll find believers do a lot more preaching than nonbelievers.

This bad experience may make you turn away from atheism.

I don't bring it up much as the believers may take a torch to my house.

Since: Jan 14

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#70625 Apr 1, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Thats not how it is interpreted in my tradition.

Sorry, you are wrong again.

:)
So, an ant is HaShem, a lump of shit is HaShem, a worm is HaShem, a whore is HaShem, a criminal is HaShem and in general the entire cosmos is the HaShem in manifestation and a sage can say, "I am HaShem" after uniting in consciousness-force with HaShem.

So, observant Jews should worship who has united in consciousness with HaShem.

I wonder if Moses, Abraham or Elijah, on uniting with HaShem in consciousness-force, ever said: " I am HaShem, worship me."

LOL.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70626 Apr 1, 2014
NON-DUALISM is NOT a part of JUDAISM.

Living in G-d is a form of dualism but it certainly is not nondualism in which every barrier between the subject and the object is broken down after the grand union in consciousness of the object with the subject.

Dualism leads to the illogics of a creator G-d, creation from nothing, fanaticism and tribalism.

LMAO.

Since: Jan 14

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#70627 Apr 1, 2014
ZEN is wrong to postulate the shunya or the state of nothing as a realization. The thoughtless state of consciousness is not shunya/void/nothing. LOL.

Since: Jan 14

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#70628 Apr 1, 2014
NIRVANA is not shunya or nothing. Nirvana is simply a stepping back via trance into a subliminal state of consciousness that's devoid of the upheavals of the surface consciousness.

Since: Jan 14

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#70629 Apr 1, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

I do not know if I am afraid of death what I do know is that I do not want to die now.
Alright. Enjoy life in a sensible manner and take things as and when they arrive.

Since: May 12

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#70630 Apr 1, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that to be intellectually honest, we should all start with the null hypothesis (atheism) and then make the decision from there.
This is where ATF's argument falls apart.
He thinks one needs a reason to stop believing rather than a reason to start.
Seems counterintuitive to me.
I don't see how atheism could be considered a null hypothesis.

Atheism, in gross lines is defined as the denying of the existence of gods. It per se is a position.

Atheism denies whereas Theism affirms the existence of god. I don't see them as a starting point. Both rappresent a conclusion.

Agnosticism is already a conclusion rather than a starting point, so I discard that as well.

One person should be extraneous to any position and through rationalization/investigation arrive to the conclusion.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#70631 Apr 1, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see how atheism could be considered a null hypothesis.
Atheism, in gross lines is defined as the denying of the existence of gods. It per se is a position.
Atheism denies whereas Theism affirms the existence of god. I don't see them as a starting point. Both rappresent a conclusion.
Agnosticism is already a conclusion rather than a starting point, so I discard that as well.
One person should be extraneous to any position and through rationalization/investigation arrive to the conclusion.
Definitions and labels get messy because their use has changed over time, and so not everyone is on the same page with them.

From a pragmatic standpoint, what we refer to as agnostic atheists is essentially what you describe in your last sentence - "One person should be extraneous to any position and through rationalization/investigation arrive to the conclusion."

In essence, agnostic atheists don't deny the existence of deities, but rather, withhold belief until such time as credible evidence is provided to them. In this pragmatic approach, the default, then, is non-belief. I believe this is what Former was referring to when he said null-hypothesis.

Since: Jan 14

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#70632 Apr 1, 2014
THOUGHTLESS STATE

The THOUGHTLESS STATE is quite difficult to attain to and can only become a possibility through yogic discipline.

Try stilling your thoughts for a minute or attempt to take the stand of the witness consciousness who simply watches his thoughts taking shape in his external consciousness and you'll know how difficult it is to remain thoughtless.

What is meant by the THOUGHTLESS STATE?

By it is not meant a state of consciousness devoid of thoughts.

It simply means to dissociate the subliminal consciousness from the surface consciousness where thoughts arise.

If this separation in consciousness can be executed through yogic discipline then the witness consciousness simply watches the thoughts forming in his surface consciousness but is detached from the thought mechanism or from the thoughts themselves.

The witness consciousness just watches and after a time turns on itself to partake of its deep silence, incisive awareness and profound peace.

With practice, thoughts that are always of a mechanical nature that arise in the surface consciousness can be so fully ignored that one is unaware of the thoughts that become as a result become more subconscious in nature.

In this way, fresh thoughts do not arise in the surface consciousness and only subconscious impressions keep rising into the surface consciousness where they're ignored by the backdrop witness consciousness.

If the subconscious gets penetrated by a superior range of consciousness-force, like the supramental, then all thoughts cease and the division between the surface and subliminal gets obliterated and only pure gnostic awareness prevails.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#70633 Apr 1, 2014
DEITIES

Agnostics/atheists will forever keep waiting for credible evidence to support the existence of deities since they constantly dwell in the most ordinary and often in the most vulgar states of consciousness.

Are they of the view that a deity is a physical being? LOL.

Whereas to come into direct contact with the deities that're subtler formations of consciousness-force in comparison to the gross formations of matter, one has to rise high enough in consciousness to get a glimpse of them or to merge with them in consciousness-force, or, on the other hand, if the ordinary consciousness is sufficiently pure and calm enough then these formations of the higher ranges of the cosmic consciounsess-force called deities at times get attracted to the individual and manifest as tangible force formations in the person's ordinary consciousness giving him ample evidence of their existence, reach and powers.

Since: Jan 14

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#70634 Apr 1, 2014
Only like can investigate, perceive and comprehend like.

Since: Jan 14

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#70635 Apr 1, 2014
Something that is inferior can never hope in its wildest dreams to investigate, perceive or to comprehend something that is far superior and far removed from the ordinary spatio-temporal dimensions.

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