Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71944 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: May 13

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#61663 Nov 1, 2013
HUGH,

Where are you, Monny?

(smiles)

Since: May 13

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#61664 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

Government and nation are not synonymous.
Obviously.

Nevertheless, both government and nation are human constructs - products of mental conceptions given concrete form.

Since: May 13

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#61666 Nov 1, 2013
Relaxing with music.

Since: May 13

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#61667 Nov 1, 2013
Is there an ultimate reality? Can we measure it? Or can we only experience it?
Voluntarist

United States

#61668 Nov 1, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously.
Nevertheless, both government and nation are human constructs - products of mental conceptions given concrete form.
So then you agree when someone says " the government is us", that is a false statement.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#61669 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So then you agree when someone says " the government is us", that is a false statement.
Doofus,

to a mental idealist like Joel, "us" is a false statement

Since: May 13

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#61670 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

So then you agree when someone says " the government is us", that is a false statement.
What is the government, in your opinion?

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#61671 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

So then you agree when someone says " the government is us", that is a false statement.
Did you not understand my statement - both government and nation are mental constructs given concrete form?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#61672 Nov 1, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you not understand my statement - both government and nation are mental constructs given concrete form?
chuckle

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#61673 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

" the government is us"
By US do you mean human beings or human ideas or human efforts or all three of any two of these alternatives?

See, human beings contribute to forming a government/nation by first intellectually defining these terms and then giving these intellectual ideas a concrete shape by creating laws and erecting infrastructure and marking out geo-political boundaries and creating an army of personnel to help in the smooth functioning.

What I mean is this - without a mental conception of the terms government and nation they wouldn't come into existence. For example, a national geopolitical boundary does not come into existence on its own despite the physical parameters like land and landforms being present as an objective reality. To create a geopolitical boundary, human intelligence is needed to first give a precise meaning to what a geopolitical boundary means or what it means to cut off a certain landmass from the neighboring landmasses in order to create a geopolitical boundary in this way. After the initial perceptual/reasoning phases are done with, it's time for concrete action and so the required landmass is marked off by human effort and this geopolitical border or boundary that is created then becomes a reality.

Also note that all throughout the making of such a boundary based on earlier intellectual conceptions, the intellectual faculties again play a critical role in the marking off process where last minute changes may be made.

After the geopolitical boundary takes concrete shape then, too, human perceptual and intellectual faculties and human effort are needed to maintain it and protect it from damage, invasions etc.

So, ultimately, we see that if there's no mind, there would not come into existence a geopolitical boundary since inert matter cannot assume all by itself a well-defined geopolitical boundary the precise way human intelligence would actually conceive and implement it.

The same analogy applies to laws, infrastructure, technology and every input that goes into forming government and nation.

Bottom line - we first conceive, then execute.

Every aspect of human effort, and perhaps of nature too, is based on this basic principle of conceptualization followed by execution.

Of course, the process of conceptualization followed by implementation of the thing conceptualized where humans and nature are concerned are based on different scales but nevertheless the same thumb rule is used.

Besides, once the basic intellectual blueprint is executed in a concrete manner, then, too, intelligence is needed to keep watch over the created form/created institution and to make intelligent changes based on intelligent observation of what more could be done.

So, mind is primary.

Since: May 13

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#61674 Nov 1, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

chuckle
OMG

Since: May 13

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#61675 Nov 1, 2013
ADDENDUM ON GOVERNMENT/NATION:

Of course, human beings being unequally endowed in various capacities form a hierarchy with the most intelligent, most wealthy and most powerful sitting atop the social hierarchy. The vanguard thinkers first conceive the ideas needed to put an institution or a device in place and then after the basic hypothesis is worked out many specialists fine tune the blueprint and later using human labor the blueprint is given concrete shape. So, in many ways, the distribution of intelligence, wealth and power not being equal thus those humans who possess these critical capacities in greater degree than the others dominate the proceedings and if they lack sound ethics then it lays the ground for exploitation of the common masses who become mere playthings in the hands of the intelligent, rich and powerful individuals who constitute the movers and shakers of society.
Voluntarist

United States

#61676 Nov 1, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the government, in your opinion?
Government is a corporation.
That's a fact.
Voluntarist

United States

#61677 Nov 1, 2013
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you not understand my statement - both government and nation are mental constructs given concrete form?
So your mind is giving you concrete form? say that to the wall that you are about to ram into at 80mph.

Since: May 13

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#61678 Nov 1, 2013
Hugh,

Come online, you monster.

Don't hide in the closet, Monny.

(smiles)

Since: May 13

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#61679 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

So your mind is giving you concrete form? say that to the wall that you are about to ram into at 80mph.
You're very low down the intellectual scale, Mr high school drop out.

The intelligent principle in matter conceives a plan and then guides the material substance in the creation of a physical form...

Similarly, on a smaller scale of conscious operation, human intelligence first conceives a plan and then executes it using human effort.

Since: May 13

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#61680 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

say that to the wall that you are about to ram into at 80mph.
The fact that your mind was lazy or tired or inattentive is the cause of you ramming your car into a concrete wall. LOL.

Had the driver been alert and intelligently followed all the traffic rules, the accident would not have occurred in the first place.

The intelligence of the car driver manoeuvres his vehicle safely through traffic and obstacles.

The car itself is made by human intelligence and human effort.

So, everything boils down to cognition, conceptualization and execution using human effort...

Since: May 13

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#61681 Nov 1, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>

Government is a corporation.

That's a fact.
Who or what conceptualizes/gives meaning/defines the word "corporation"?

Who gives concrete shape to a corporation after it is defined in precise terms?

Since: May 13

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#61682 Nov 1, 2013
Consciousness that inheres in energy/matter works in synchronicity with the energy/matter in which it inheres.

Since: May 13

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#61683 Nov 1, 2013
Conceptualization and execution may occur simultaneously depending on the task at hand.

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