Berlin, Adult Novelty Store Face Off ...

Berlin, Adult Novelty Store Face Off In State Supreme Court

There are 75 comments on the Hartford Courant story from Apr 15, 2008, titled Berlin, Adult Novelty Store Face Off In State Supreme Court. In it, Hartford Courant reports that:

The hearing on "VIP of Berlin LLC v. Town of Berlin et al" was the latest round in a dispute over the legality of the town's ordinance regulating the location of sexually-oriented businesses, including strip ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Hartford Courant.

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Stick to your guns Berlin

Yorktown Heights, NY

#1 Apr 15, 2008
First, there is nothing and nobody "adult" in these adult shops. Pornography is an addiction. Most violent criminals were addicted to pornography. I hope Berlin wins. IF they don't I hope the town organizes against the establishment. I would suggest photographing car license platers in the parking lot and posting the pictures on a website. Watch how fast they go out of business.
JoeC

Irvine, CA

#2 Apr 15, 2008
For as long as anybody can remember, the Berlin Turnpike has been synonomous with these establishments. One is reminded by the line in Casablanca of being "Shocked" at adverse things.

Having said that, there is a fundamental question that the residents of Berlin have to ask. What kind of town do they really want? I mean, they could go the Vegas route and play up the fact that, in staid Connecticut, Berlin is the place for something else. Which is, by the way, pretty much that current state of affairs. On the other hand, nobody thought that Times Square would ever be cleaned up, but those changes certainly did occur.

Furthermore, there is the matter of who might own these establishments. They might not be the most savory characters, of course, and maybe even aligned with organized crime. So that is something else that has to be considered. Clearly, the intimidation factor of such individuals is something that warrants state, or for that matter federal, intervention.

So, outsiders can say what we will, but it is really a question for the residents of Berlin to decide.
Gotta Love It

United States

#4 Apr 15, 2008
Stick to your guns Berlin wrote:
First, there is nothing and nobody "adult" in these adult shops. Pornography is an addiction. Most violent criminals were addicted to pornography. I hope Berlin wins. IF they don't I hope the town organizes against the establishment. I would suggest photographing car license platers in the parking lot and posting the pictures on a website. Watch how fast they go out of business.
Great idea... Lets start with yours... What is your plate number so we can post it on a "Complete Hypocrite" board.
You really might want ot reconsider forcing your "morality" down someone elses throat. All it is going to do is cause more anger and frustration. When it blows up in your face, possibly literally, then you have no one to blame but yourself fool.
Thomas

Meriden, CT

#5 Apr 15, 2008
Ya know , the Girls, are still walking the Pike......
KML80

Pelham, NY

#7 Apr 15, 2008
It's not about trying to force morality down someone else's throat. It's about perpetuating civilized living and keeping our towns safe for the kids. It's the same reason we have any laws...
Gotta Love It wrote:
<quoted text>
Great idea... Lets start with yours... What is your plate number so we can post it on a "Complete Hypocrite" board.
You really might want ot reconsider forcing your "morality" down someone elses throat. All it is going to do is cause more anger and frustration. When it blows up in your face, possibly literally, then you have no one to blame but yourself fool.
Lisa

Newington, CT

#9 Apr 15, 2008
I'm all for it. The state is backwards. How come I cant buy booze on Sunday but I can gamble, shop, go to adult bookstores, etc???
Imagine no religion

Newington, CT

#10 Apr 15, 2008
The only question here is whether the town has the power to enforce the regulation. I don't know how the home rule act impacts the zoning issue, but, generally speaking, the reality is that porn is legal, but regulated, like many other aspects of our society. It's just a matter of balancing interests. Some people like it, and the law says they can have it, but their rights have to be balanced against the rights of property owners - and I certainly can understand not wanting that in your backyard. These places should be relegated to commercially zoned areas only, with adequate buffers, such as the one at issue here, to protect residential property that lies at the edge of a residential zone and abuts a commercial zone.
MORALITY

United States

#11 Apr 15, 2008
DO WE TAKE YOUR PICTURE IN THE CHURCH'S PARKING LOT AND POST THAT YOU HANG AROUND WITH PEDOPHILES? hOW ABOUT IF YOU ARE AT THE STATE CAPITOL CAN WE POST THAT YOU HANG AROUND WITH CORRUP POLITICIANS OR PATRONIZE PROSTITUTES? bETTER YET CAN WE TAKE YOUR PICTURE IN THE PARKING LOT OF MANY POLICE DEPARTMENTS IN CT AND SAY YOU ARE AROUND LEGALIZED CROOKS. TOTAL NONSENSE WHAT YOU SAY! iF THIS COMPANY OWNED PROPERTY THAT WAS WITHIN 300 FT OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD THEY CHANGE THE LAW? HOW ABOUT 1000 FEET? 2000 FEET? 1 MILE? IT IS BEING SELECTIVE WITH LAW AND SIMPLY BANNING 1 TYPE OF BUISNESS AND NOT ANOTHER. hOW ABOUT A SHOOTING RANGE IN THE SAME LOCATION? WOULD YOU FEEL SAFE WITH ALL THOSE GUNS IN THE PARKING LOT? HOW ABOUT A CREAMATORIUM? HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD SMELL? hOW ABOUT A PLACE FOR NARCOTICTICS ANONYMOUS MEETING AND ALCHOLICS ANONYMOUS MEETING WOULD YOU FEEL SAFE THEN? HOW ABOUT A BIG OLD PAWN SHOP THAT WOULD BRING IN ALL "TYPES" THAT YOU DON'T LIKE. EVERY BUISNESS HAS A GOOD AND A BAD AND THAT IS JUST LIFE. TO MAKE A LAW TO STOP ONE AND NOT STOP ANOTHER IS CRAZY AND "I" BELIEVE UNCONSTITUTIONAL. WHAT BUISNESS WOULD MAKE YOU FEEL SAFE THERE? A BOWLING ALLEY? LIKE KIDS DONT GET HURT THERE (REFRENCE OLD SAYBROOK). A CHURCH (REFRENCE JUST ABOUT ANY TOWN). A FURNITURE STORE(REFRENCE THE MANY WHO HAVE RIPPED OFF MANY WITH DEPOSIT SCAMS). DRUNKS, THIEVES, CRIMINALS, AND LOSERS PATRONIZE ALL BUISNESS BUT YOU WOULD SAY HAS LONG HAS ITS IN A INDUSTRIAL AREA ITS OKAY? NO YOU WOULD SAY, NOT AT ALL. OR IF YES ONLY IF WE APPROVE NEAR RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND IF ITS IN A INDUSTRIAL AREA WELL IT MAY BE OKAY BECAUSE NOBODY WILL SEE IT!
Cruisin for chicks

AOL

#12 Apr 15, 2008
Thomas wrote:
Ya know , the Girls, are still walking the Pike......
Where on the pike?
Lisa

Newington, CT

#14 Apr 15, 2008
HOW COME I CANT BUY BOOZE ON SUNDAY? THIS IS RIDICULOUS! I GOT TO DRIVE TO MASSACHUSETTS. I ALSO BUY MY GAS WHILE THERE SAVING 30 CENTS A GALLON SO SCREW CT!!!
Lingerie

Newington, CT

#15 Apr 15, 2008
Seriously, VIP is really just Victoria's Secret with some extra toys. Last I knew, people in the town of Berlin were still producing children so one would assume that they are actually "doing it" in Berlin. I'm not exactly sure what the problem is here when they already have tons of hotels on the strip that charge by the hour.
Berlin is For Lovers

Canterbury, CT

#16 Apr 15, 2008
Berlin has long been associated with such behaviors and fighting one novelty shop won't change this image. In fact, one of the FIRST things I learned when moving to CT twenty years ago was that the Berlin Turnpike was the place to take your lover to rent a room for a few hours. Complete with mirrors on the ceilings, hot tubs and all-day porn on TV. This, I came to find out, was the Hartford business districts well known "secret" and many-a-secretary or female employee were entertained during very long lunch breaks......

As for the legality of choosing what businesses are permitted where, I guess that should be up to the citizens themselves. Put it up to a vote and see what happens.
Observer

United States

#17 Apr 15, 2008
Stick to your guns Berlin wrote:
First, there is nothing and nobody "adult" in these adult shops. Pornography is an addiction. Most violent criminals were addicted to pornography. I hope Berlin wins. IF they don't I hope the town organizes against the establishment. I would suggest photographing car license platers in the parking lot and posting the pictures on a website. Watch how fast they go out of business.
Taking pictures...Really. If that were to happen, too many "decent folks" would be in a jam.

Do you think for a minute that only "low lifes" patronize these establishments. Be real. They are partronized by folks of all walks of life, including Doctors, Lawyers, Indian Chiefs and Politicians.

It's the same with drugs and dealers. Do you think their customer base is only in the North End of Hartford? No. They also deal in the lilly-white burbs.
Some Common Sense

Avon, CT

#19 Apr 15, 2008
I think the cause of the persons fighting VIP would be much better served if, instead of throwing out the morality issue, they had some statistics showing their concern. I would recommend that they contact the Police Departments in the towns that have VIP's (or similar establishments) and determine if there was actually an increase in crime in the area before and after the businesses opened. Should be easier to resist this business if you could show that crime increased after the business opened, so it would be in a town's best interest to keep it out.
Also, to the person who recommended taking pics of persons visiting said establishments and posting them somewhere - I presume this is to shame the "visitors", even though they aren't doing anything illegal; maybe even the unspoken concern over a visit from others of different moral convictions. If this is a viable tactic, I recommend that others take pics of patrons at a steak house, or fur shop, and post them on PETA's or ALF's website. Nothing illegal about that, right? Yet who would want that to happen ...
Mother of Children

Avon, CT

#20 Apr 15, 2008
KML80 wrote:
It's not about trying to force morality down someone else's throat. It's about perpetuating civilized living and keeping our towns safe for the kids. It's the same reason we have any laws...
<quoted text>
Oh, here we go with the "Making it safe for the children" mantra. Guess what? Children don't frequent adult shops. Stop worrying about legislating everything down to a vanilla puddle in the name of "keeping it safe for the children". If that were so, you'd be trying to close every liquor store and cigarette company (which both surrepticiously market their products to minors) instead of worrying about an adult sex toy store.
KML80

Pelham, NY

#21 Apr 15, 2008
Yeah, taking pictures of patrons is really not fair. They arent't doing anything illegal, and you could potentially cause a lot of damage to someone's family doing that. The issue is whether the establishnment should be there in the first place...

Anyway, are there really still motels there that have mirrored ceilings and charge by the hour? Which ones??
KML80

Pelham, NY

#22 Apr 15, 2008
How'd your kids turn out?
Mother of Children wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, here we go with the "Making it safe for the children" mantra. Guess what? Children don't frequent adult shops. Stop worrying about legislating everything down to a vanilla puddle in the name of "keeping it safe for the children". If that were so, you'd be trying to close every liquor store and cigarette company (which both surrepticiously market their products to minors) instead of worrying about an adult sex toy store.
FATIMA GOO GOO

United States

#23 Apr 15, 2008
Dear Berlin,

Any idea what you're children and residents have access to on the internet at the stroke of a key or two??? And you're concerned about some strictly ADULT businesses??? Remove heads from heinie and join the world.

F. G. G.
FATIMA GOO GOO

United States

#24 Apr 15, 2008
Gaggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Gulp......only in Berlin. Is it true that Linda Lovelace stayed in Berlin on a short stay years ago? Berlin. Home of the BIG GULP.. LMAO
Several female "porn stars" stayed in Berlin during the XXX Drive-In's heyday. They used to greet the "handy-men" at the box office. The Courant used to advertise these events.
Next door neighbor

United States

#25 Apr 15, 2008
I am one of the homeowners whose property literally abuts the proposed VIP location. The town of Berlin had the 250 ft. from residential property SOB ordinance in place long before VIP bought the building. The town has a right and an obligation to enforce its ordinance.
Do I care if stores like VIP exist? No, they are legal. But it is also legal to zone them so they are located in areas that do not abut residential property.
As far as the Berlin Turnpike, only ONE "adult" bar is IN Berlin on the Berlin Turnpike, others are in the onther towns it goes through.
In addition, I do not live ON the Berlin Turnpike, the neighborhood is OFF the Berlin Turnpike, and existed long before the store did.
Would you want a 15,000 sq. ft. porn store next door to you? They are open until 2:00am. They also sell steel bladed knives and drug paraphernalia (I dont know why this combo, but I really dont want horny pornseeking drug users driving into my neighborhood at 1:30 am, would YOU?
I have never once agrued about morality. I am arguing my rights as a property owner to protect my property values and quality of life in my neighborhood.
If this store wanted to locate in an area on the pike that did not fall within 250 of homes, I would not be fighting it.
BTW, this is not some neighborhood of McMansions... just regular ranches, capes, etc. built in the 1950s.
Berlin has a right to try to counter the image of being full of sex shops, doesnt it?
If this was happening in your neighborhood, you'd fight too. And let me tell you, if VIP succeed in overturning Berlin's SOB ordinance, dont think your safe in YOUR town either, because it will set a precident, and any town in the state will be dealing with it, SOB ordinance or not.

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