Gay couples hope legislation makes Ha...

Gay couples hope legislation makes Hawaii first Western state w...

There are 16145 comments on the The Morning Call story from Feb 22, 2009, titled Gay couples hope legislation makes Hawaii first Western state w.... In it, The Morning Call reports that:

Hawaii , the state that adopted the nation's first "defense of marriage" constitutional amendment a decade ago, has now become the latest battleground in the fight for same-sex civil unions.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16651 Oct 25, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, I'm usually not about wasting my time convincing ideologues like yourself to view an issue any differently than you already do because whatever good arguments there are, they almost always fall on deaf ears and empty hearts. I can name a number if good reasons for equal civil marriage. Here are just three good reasons:
1. Lack of recognition for ss mariage has and has had real-world consequences for gay couples such as:
A. Unfair additional tax burdons on income and inheritance.
B. Denial of employer-provided pensions and health care coverage.
C. Inability to combine credit causes economic disadvantages when buying a house.
D. Combined assets taxed at the highest rate.
2. Denial of basic rights all spouses are afforded:
A. Inability to make decisions for the health and care of a partner.
B. Refusal of hospital visitation rights.
C. Extended family can pre-empt the rights of a surviving spouse to their partner's assets and even forbid he or she from attending the funeral.
3. What we do is none of your business and government ought not interfere with our rights nor single us out to be treated differently than other couples.
In conclusion, I really don't care why it why not you think ss couples don't deserve the same rights as other couples. In theory, we all have the same constitutial right to fair and equal treatment under the law. To deny that to us is in violation of our rights.
Oh, one last reason... This isn't about you, so get your nose out of our business!!!
Simply, not all couples are the same. Marriage defines a distinct relationship in society. Ss couples do not equate. Therefore;

1. Marriage does not define a ss couple. Ss couples have every ability to develop their own relational identity.

2. Ss couples do not deserve the same rights and protections. They are fully free to develop their own rights and privileges, which has already been done in some places.

Marriage and family are my concern. Get your hands off them.

At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior, making ss marriage an oxymoron.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16653 Oct 25, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply, not all couples are the same. Marriage defines a distinct relationship in society. Ss couples do not equate. Therefore;
1. Marriage does not define a ss couple. Ss couples have every ability to develop their own relational identity.
2. Ss couples do not deserve the same rights and protections. They are fully free to develop their own rights and privileges, which has already been done in some places.
Marriage and family are my concern. Get your hands off them.
At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior, making ss marriage an oxymoron.
Obviously our families are of no concern to you, and as evidenced when you stated that we do not deserve the same rights, you really have no true concept of fairness and equality, which factually and legally applies without any labels involved. If you're so concerned with the heterosexual family unit, then focus on that. We have families too and many gay couples also have children whether they were adopted or the biological offspring of either of the parents. I'd kindly ask that you please get your hands off us. If it made it any better for us to agree to disagree, if much rather get government out of the practice of recognizing any marriage than conceded my equal right to have a family to the likes of you.

Anyway, you really didn't provide any facts-based arguments there... Just a list of assertions preface by numerous assumptions. Then again, do you really think you can get somebody like me to swallow that poison pill? Put yourself in my shoes if you even have the capacity to do so.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#16655 Oct 25, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
A mutually sterile, pointlessly duplicate gendered half of marriage clearly does not qualify.
Quite imposing an impostor relationship on women and children. Man up and get your own relational identity.
According to the Federal Government.......you're wrong. We qualify. At least in those states that have Marriage Equality. Throw all the words around you want, but the basic fact is the Federal Government disagrees. As do several states. Deal with it.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#16656 Oct 25, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply, not all couples are the same. Marriage defines a distinct relationship in society. Ss couples do not equate. Therefore;
......
There is no "therefore", since the sentence proceeding it is incorrect. Even the federal government disagrees with you.

But still you wheeze and whine.

I will never understand what you get out of it. It can't be fun.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16657 Oct 26, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply, not all couples are the same. Marriage defines a distinct relationship in society. Ss couples do not equate. Therefore;
1. Marriage does not define a ss couple. Ss couples have every ability to develop their own relational identity.
2. Ss couples do not deserve the same rights and protections. They are fully free to develop their own rights and privileges, which has already been done in some places.
Marriage and family are my concern. Get your hands off them.
At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior, making ss marriage an oxymoron.
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously our families are of no concern to you, and as evidenced when you stated that we do not deserve the same rights, you really have no true concept of fairness and equality, which factually and legally applies without any labels involved. If you're so concerned with the heterosexual family unit, then focus on that. We have families too and many gay couples also have children whether they were adopted or the biological offspring of either of the parents. I'd kindly ask that you please get your hands off us. If it made it any better for us to agree to disagree, if much rather get government out of the practice of recognizing any marriage than conceded my equal right to have a family to the likes of you.
Anyway, you really didn't provide any facts-based arguments there... Just a list of assertions preface by numerous assumptions. Then again, do you really think you can get somebody like me to swallow that poison pill? Put yourself in my shoes if you even have the capacity to do so.
Oh quit your BS and fake whining. I did and have given numerous obvious reasons. That is why you only give a generalized response instead of directly addressing the facts.

In the latest, largest and most scientific study of all default family types, ss couples rated LAST. AFTER single parents! Gay couples DID NOT EVEN RATE! In fact, there are NO studies of gay couple default families, because there are not enough long term subjects to study.

None of that is surprising, since a ss couple deprives a child of at least one natural parent, and always one gender. In other words, the worst option for a child, is in a ss couple home.

As to government intervention, yes, please get them out of marriage. The first time courts intervened, was with no-fault divorce. Children were eliminated from consideration. The result? The most drastic decline in child well-being in our nation's history. The next intervention by the courts was abortion. The result? 40 million babies murdered and counting.

Now gays are demanding court intervention again. And once again eliminating children from consideration. Add to that the asinine assertion that any Tom and Dick can replace mom and dad. Something that I can only term as a demonic lie.

You need to put yourself in a child's shoes.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16658 Oct 26, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Merely pointing out an observed logical inconsistency. No skin off my *back*. I don't practice anal sex, but you seem to assume that all gay men do.
LOL.

Now you make the attempt to excuse the inexcusable by attempting to personally side-step a core failure of ss couples to identify with the most intimate act of union in marriage.

I assume no such thing about gay men (another one of your straw man arguments...). I simply note an unavoidable evidence of a sexual defect. One that defies evolutionary mating behavior and clearly disqualifies ss couples from equating to marriage at it's most basic essence.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16659 Oct 26, 2013
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the Federal Government.......you're wrong. We qualify. At least in those states that have Marriage Equality. Throw all the words around you want, but the basic fact is the Federal Government disagrees. As do several states. Deal with it.
Not the first time reality has been ignored by lawyers and politicians is it?

Do you thing all 57 of Obama's states will change this fact;

KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
A mutually sterile, pointlessly duplicate gendered half of marriage clearly does not qualify.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16660 Oct 26, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply, not all couples are the same. Marriage defines a distinct relationship in society. Ss couples do not equate. Therefore;
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no "therefore", since the sentence proceeding it is incorrect. Even the federal government disagrees with you.
But still you wheeze and whine.
I will never understand what you get out of it. It can't be fun.
First, note my last post.

Second, you attempt to invalidate my facts with an unreasoned opinion. The following is just a partial listing of the distinctions;

Real marriage has always been and will always be a committed relationship between one man and one woman. Demanding it ain't so doesn't make it so.

It is the only relationship that reproduces naturally, a father and mother raising their children.

It is the only relationship that is the birthing place of every single other type of relationship.

It is the only relationship that reunites two completely unique parts. A complimentary union, instead of a duplicated half.

It is the only relationship that sexually fit together by design. There is no abusive violation of design.

It is the only relationship that restores a male and female to the very original roots of our creation, pre-gender.

It is the only union that blends two different genders bringing perfect balance. A same gender union lacks diversity and is off balance.

All this says nothing about the cultural, historic and religious distinctions that marriage wholly embraces.

It clearly has, needs and deserves a special and unique definition. It is absurd and sacrilegious to equate ss couples.
Ben Dover

United States

#16661 Oct 26, 2013
providence09 wrote:
<quoted text>
Says you!
Wow snappy reply. I'm impressed. Yawn.
Ben Dover

United States

#16662 Oct 26, 2013
Jonah1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your obsession with anal sex is creepy.
No more creepy than people who indulge in anal sex.
Straight Sh00ter r1

Topeka, KS

#16663 Oct 26, 2013
Ben Dover wrote:
<quoted text>
No more creepy than people who indulge in anal sex.
It's too creepy to even think about. What is it about another man's sphincter that excites these sickos?

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16664 Oct 26, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Simply, not all couples are the same. Marriage defines a distinct relationship in society. Ss couples do not equate. Therefore;
1. Marriage does not define a ss couple. Ss couples have every ability to develop their own relational identity.
2. Ss couples do not deserve the same rights and protections. They are fully free to develop their own rights and privileges, which has already been done in some places.
Marriage and family are my concern. Get your hands off them.
At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior, making ss marriage an oxymoron.
<quoted text>
Oh quit your BS and fake whining. I did and have given numerous obvious reasons. That is why you only give a generalized response instead of directly addressing the facts.
In the latest, largest and most scientific study of all default family types, ss couples rated LAST. AFTER single parents! Gay couples DID NOT EVEN RATE! In fact, there are NO studies of gay couple default families, because there are not enough long term subjects to study.
None of that is surprising, since a ss couple deprives a child of at least one natural parent, and always one gender. In other words, the worst option for a child, is in a ss couple home.
As to government intervention, yes, please get them out of marriage. The first time courts intervened, was with no-fault divorce. Children were eliminated from consideration. The result? The most drastic decline in child well-being in our nation's history. The next intervention by the courts was abortion. The result? 40 million babies murdered and counting.
Now gays are demanding court intervention again. And once again eliminating children from consideration. Add to that the asinine assertion that any Tom and Dick can replace mom and dad. Something that I can only term as a demonic lie.
You need to put yourself in a child's shoes.
Well at least we agree on something- get government out of the marriage business altogether. If that were the case, then we could argue to the end of time about this issue, but neither if us would be treated any differently in terms of right. I personally believe marriage is and should be a social/religious institution- a likely reason why people have such strong differences in opinion.

About those studies- Regenarus and the most recent one to come from, what was it, a Canadian University? Follow the money and the trail for both lead straight to NOM. The University of Texas study wasn't even by the author's own words a study if gay families. What other studies there are have found in every case that children of same sex parents fare as good or even better than the children of heterosexual parents.

I suspect that at the root of this issue, opponents really haven't much but an extreme dislike for "us", meaning what they perceive are our beliefs, values, and lifestyles is something inherently harmful to children. Therefore, the endgame would be to prevent us from having our own families. Like banning recognition of our marriages and adoption by gays. Well, there are lots of parents whose beliefs I disagree with, but do I find just cause, per say, if the majority agreed parents teaching their children there exists an imaginary sky-daddy, would that be just cause for eliminating the Christian family? Personally. I think teaching kids falsehoods as fact is demonstrably more harmful than having two loving parents of the same gender.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16665 Oct 26, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
Now you make the attempt to excuse the inexcusable by attempting to personally side-step a core failure of ss couples to identify with the most intimate act of union in marriage.
I assume no such thing about gay men (another one of your straw man arguments...). I simply note an unavoidable evidence of a sexual defect. One that defies evolutionary mating behavior and clearly disqualifies ss couples from equating to marriage at it's most basic essence.
So called natural law is a human concept and nothing more. Nature doesn't really care what you think. That's why people like me exist. Nature produced us.
Ben Dover

United States

#16666 Oct 26, 2013
Straight Sh00ter r1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's too creepy to even think about. What is it about another man's sphincter that excites these sickos?
I can't even imagine. It's totally messed up.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16667 Oct 26, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Well at least we agree on something- get government out of the marriage business altogether. If that were the case, then we could argue to the end of time about this issue, but neither if us would be treated any differently in terms of right. I personally believe marriage is and should be a social/religious institution- a likely reason why people have such strong differences in opinion.
About those studies- Regenarus and the most recent one to come from, what was it, a Canadian University? Follow the money and the trail for both lead straight to NOM. The University of Texas study wasn't even by the author's own words a study if gay families. What other studies there are have found in every case that children of same sex parents fare as good or even better than the children of heterosexual parents.
I suspect that at the root of this issue, opponents really haven't much but an extreme dislike for "us", meaning what they perceive are our beliefs, values, and lifestyles is something inherently harmful to children. Therefore, the endgame would be to prevent us from having our own families. Like banning recognition of our marriages and adoption by gays. Well, there are lots of parents whose beliefs I disagree with, but do I find just cause, per say, if the majority agreed parents teaching their children there exists an imaginary sky-daddy, would that be just cause for eliminating the Christian family? Personally. I think teaching kids falsehoods as fact is demonstrably more harmful than having two loving parents of the same gender.
The problem is finding long term gay families, not that they were not searched for.

As to families, the only special distinction of ss couples from other default family issues is the added detriment of missing a mother or father image. Something sad I would impose on no child.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16668 Oct 26, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
Now you make the attempt to excuse the inexcusable by attempting to personally side-step a core failure of ss couples to identify with the most intimate act of union in marriage.
I assume no such thing about gay men (another one of your straw man arguments...). I simply note an unavoidable evidence of a sexual defect. One that defies evolutionary mating behavior and clearly disqualifies ss couples from equating to marriage at it's most basic essence.
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
So called natural law is a human concept and nothing more. Nature doesn't really care what you think. That's why people like me exist. Nature produced us.
No natural law in my post.

Nor did I indicate nature cared about what I thought. I simply stated a fact of nature. Nature produces mutations all the time. I'm a monster mutation, a genetic chimera and a hermaphrodite.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16669 Oct 26, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is finding long term gay families, not that they were not searched for.
As to families, the only special distinction of ss couples from other default family issues is the added detriment of missing a mother or father image. Something sad I would impose on no child.
I do not believe that is a detriment to a child's well being. Though I do not have kids myself, their godmother will fill that roll. Moreover, it's better for a kid to have two loving parents regardless of gender than to have none and be stuck in an orphanage. When my husband and I do have kids, we plan on adopting.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16670 Oct 27, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
Now you make the attempt to excuse the inexcusable by attempting to personally side-step a core failure of ss couples to identify with the most intimate act of union in marriage.
I assume no such thing about gay men (another one of your straw man arguments...). I simply note an unavoidable evidence of a sexual defect. One that defies evolutionary mating behavior and clearly disqualifies ss couples from equating to marriage at it's most basic essence.
<quoted text>
No natural law in my post.
Nor did I indicate nature cared about what I thought. I simply stated a fact of nature. Nature produces mutations all the time. I'm a monster mutation, a genetic chimera and a hermaphrodite.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Embracing yourself as who, if you believe in a god, you are, and if not- regardless, you are a unique individual, you might feel better accepting that. I do the same.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16671 Oct 27, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry you feel that way. Embracing yourself as who, if you believe in a god, you are, and if not- regardless, you are a unique individual, you might feel better accepting that. I do the same.
I not only embrace who I am, I publicize it. However, distinct from what you do, I don't deny reality. Nor do I ignore and deny science.

Look at how you have twisted and squirmed in our discussion. I am a redeemed cynic who remains barbarian specifically to address denial like yours. It is fearless honesty that has allowed me to face my mutations. The result is being embraced by those around me.

The gay demand that others accept their denial is at the root of the resistance you experience. That denial is a vain attempt to find normalcy through fallacy. The result? When a ss couple stands next to a married couple, everyone can tell the counterfeit. Even a child. Especially when one couple is mom and dad.
Mikey

Fullerton, CA

#16672 Oct 27, 2013
A genetic, sterile abomination that has nothing better to do than be on a misguided hate quest against gays rather than accept being dysfunctional. Sounds like being in denial to me.....

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