Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday

Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision.
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“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268671
Dec 6, 2012
 

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AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>OMG Lynne, don't call me the bonehead when you can't get it through your thick skull that the D&C, the dilation and curettage are the same tools used regardless of the abortion. The remains are scraped out into a bowl period it makes no difference whether it was intended to be or not, they just are.
I didn't call you bonehead, I called you Cluerless. That's ho bad your reading comprehension is.

I posted a quote from you and my reply isn't at all what you misread.

Lil Lil wrote
<quoted text>
" It's going to say therapeutic D&C for (type of abortion)."

Exactly. It's in the TYPE of abortion that makes a D&C different from case to case. A theapeutic D&C for spontaneous abortion is not the same as a D&C to induce abortion.
Pro-lifers already stated those facts, Clueless, since Jan..~

I wasn't saying the D&C PROCEDURE was different, I was saying the REASONS for the D&C procedure were different, and would be charted in patient's file, coded and billed differently. Why? Because a D&C for spontaneous abortion is a DIFFERENT REASOM for D&C than a D&C for an induced abortion. It's not an "abortion procedure", not an "abortive procedure" after miscarriage. It's still just a dilation and curettage procedure, for a DIFFERENT reason than "abortive" when it's after miscarriage.

We've already proven it with links and it's you idiots who keep misreading everything, including what's on links provided.

I'm not just saying that, you have all proven it by posting to us as though we've said something we haven't said. You people do that all the time, and it's not because we can't write, it's because you don't have the skills to understand what you're reading.
Lisa McClendon

United States

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#268672
Dec 6, 2012
 
Must we try to control EVERYTHING!!!! Sheesh let people decide for themselves what to do with their bodies. It is their body. No one owns it. Smh. www.homebusinessjoys.com

Since: Dec 09

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#268673
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
You want to think that the Church is in favor of pedophile priests and doesn't condemn them. I'm not going to change your mind and I don't care to try. Both sides of my brain are fine. You are the ones shortchanging women by thinking they can't handle a busy life.
Admitting it happens and it's shameful it happens is not good enough. All condemnation does is avoid the solution. If the RCC felt convicted to resolve the issue of child molestation then that would be an altogether different thing in the public eye of opinion. Has the RCC attempted to research why it happens mainly among priests and little boys and not entirely girls? I think they know why and they and have not yet felt the conviction to prevent it from happening at all. Sending them off to another parish is avoiding the "why" it happened.
Condemnation is what you do on here. "Yeah your abortion is shameful", "you killed your baby", "Jesus is going to judge you". Where is your conviction to make a difference in the abortion numbers other than condemning the person?
No Relativism

Wakarusa, IN

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#268674
Dec 6, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code: Spontaneous abortion O03-
The natural premature expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception, the embryo, or non-viable fetus.
Loss of the products of conception from the uterus before the fetus is viable; spontaneous abortion.
Expulsion of the products of conception before the completion of gestation without deliberate interference.
*Note
Incomplete abortion includes retained products of conception following spontaneous abortion
Includes:
Miscarriage http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/O00-O9... -
Ayaka: "Where does it say "miscarriage"?
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T833...
__________

^^^ "Includes: Miscarraige" ^^^

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/O00-O9... -
No Relativism

Wakarusa, IN

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#268675
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Lisa McClendon wrote:
Must we try to control EVERYTHING!!!! Sheesh let people decide for themselves what to do with their bodies. It is their body. No one owns it. Smh. www.homebusinessjoys.com
Lisa, I'm sorry you didn't get the memo that DNA analsysis results are conclusive: The preborn baby is NOT part of mom's body.

Please do pay attention.

TIA.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268676
Dec 6, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 779.6
Termination of pregnancy (fetus)
Deliberate termination of pregnancy, generally through the use of surgical procedures or drugs.
Short description: Termination of pregnancy.
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/760-779/...
----In 2013 becomes------
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy
Excludes:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•spontaneous abortion (O03)
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9...
Ayakaneo tried to prove awhile back that the coding proves a D&C for miscarriage is the same as a D&C for induced abortion.

The FACT that the REASONS for said procedure (D&C) are harted, coded and billed differently is proof that the procedure isn't considered "abortion" when used after miscarriage. It's not because pro-lifers just don't want it to be. It's that IT IS A DIFFERENT REASON for the procedure. Just as a D&C to remove fibroids would be DIFFERENT than a D&C to induce abortion. The procedure is the same, it's the PURPOSE FOR the procedure that's different.

None of us has said a D&C isn't a D&C each and every time, no matter the purpose for the D&C. That's what these mental cases seem to think we've said.

What we've said is, a D&C after miscarriage IS NOT and ABORTION. Not in charting, coding, billing, medically, legally or logically. It is a DIFFERENT PURPOSE the D&C is done for, than when it's done to induce abortion. It's not an "abortion procedure", when a pregnancy already spontaneously aborted. Doctors don't abort a pregnancy that already aborted. A dead fetus in utero aborts the pregnancy, no matter how long that fetus remains in utero. Hormones may indicate a woman is still pregnant, but the LACK OF GROWTH in the fetus says otherwise.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268677
Dec 6, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Target archery uses a quiver, arrows, bow, and target.
One archer shoots at a target. Another archer shoots at a target that has a sleeping baby placed just in front of it.
In your mind, AyakaNeo, both archers are using same equipment, and using same technique. You ignore the fact that the second archer kills a little human in pursuit of the target.
They're so mind boggling stupid, they can't understand the basic difference or the relevance of it. Same equipment, DIFFERENT INTENT or purpose. It's what makes the difference regarding death medically and legally, regardless of the death. Dead may be dead, but CAUSE of death is the most important factor both medically and legally in any case of death.

They want to ignore the purpose, and act like the purpose is irrelevant, because it's [purpose/intent] that proves difference between natural death and killing and also proves what a bunch of numbskulls they are.
No Relativism

Wakarusa, IN

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#268678
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous. Even for a spontaneous abortion, if the embryo/fetus remains in the uterus, the woman is still pregnant, it's an incomplete (abeit spontaneous) abortion, and any medical procedure used to expel the uterine contents constitutes an abortion procedure.
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy

EXCLUDES:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (O03)

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9 ...

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268679
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous. Even for a spontaneous abortion, if the embryo/fetus remains in the uterus, the woman is still pregnant, it's an incomplete (abeit spontaneous) abortion, and any medical procedure used to expel the uterine contents constitutes an abortion procedure.
"Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous."

Pregnancy ends upon death of fetus. Fetus doesn't develop pregnancy ended whether fetus came out of not. That is what a spontaneous abortion is.

It may be missed or incomplete spontaneous abortion, but pregnancy aborted the moment that fetus died a natural death in utero.

I've made that claim several times since you people started posting your stupoidity back in Jan. and I found proof of my claims. Where's the proof of yours?

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-symptoms...

"A missed miscarriage occurs when a fetus has died in the womb or in utero."

Miscarriage is another word for what? Spontaneous abortion. A pregnancy is already aborted once fetus dies, as I've stated repeatedly.

"However a pregnant woman who had fetal death just before 20 weeks without the other signs of miscarriage could be still considered as having a missed miscarriage. "

"The longer the fetus stays in utero, however, the more potential symptoms could occur. For instance, the pregnancy will fail to progress. The belly won’t grow as it would if a developing fetus were present. Most importantly, Doppler exam will show no evidence of fetal heartbeat, and any sonogram/ultrasound would show a fetus that is completely still and has no heartbeat. "

"Good prenatal care is useful in making sure a missed miscarriage is identified. Most often doctors will want to treat this by performing a dilation and curettage (D & C), if miscarriage doesn’t begin in a few days. Presence of the fetus in the body does result in much higher risk for systemic infection, which could be life-threatening. In fact failure to diagnose missed miscarriage, often as a result of no prenatal care, could lead to a situation where the first symptom is blood infection or sepsis. "

It goes on about it.

ALL things we pro-lifers already knew and have posted. It's pro-choicers who want to change the meanings of certain terms.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268680
Dec 6, 2012
 
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy
EXCLUDES:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (O03)
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9 ...
When I say they can't read for comprehension, it isn't said to try to insult. It's said because it's FACT, and one they prove each time they post.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268681
Dec 6, 2012
 
Wonder how many PCers will try to dismiss the info I provided in post 268679, claiming it's not a "medical" site. The info is what it is. I challenge them to prove the info wrong.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268682
Dec 6, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Lisa, I'm sorry you didn't get the memo that DNA analsysis results are conclusive: The preborn baby is NOT part of mom's body.
Please do pay attention.
TIA.
A woman doesn't "own" the body of her fetus either. She's a guardian of it. Or at least that's what they're supposed to be. PCers like to ignore that women are supposed to be guardians of their children. They don't "own" their children whether developing in utero or once born.
PCers like to ignore the differences in the meaning of words, terms, medical procedures etc so that their senselessness might make sense. It never does, but they try.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

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#268683
Dec 6, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy
EXCLUDES:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (O03)
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9 ...
I don't know what you think you've proven here, but none of this refutes what I said. The code you posted is for elective termination. Why don't you tell me WHY you think that disproves what I said?

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

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#268684
Dec 6, 2012
 
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>Looks like Pro lifers do lie.
You're the ones lying to yourselves about what we supposedly said. You have constantly been posting to us about things we haven't said, things we haven't posted and it's because you misread everything. Then you accuse us of lying when we've been the ones proving our claims, while you haven't proven us wrong. The only thing you erver prove is that you're brain is lost in space somewhere, because you have no clue what's going on in this forum.
pbfa

Los Angeles, CA

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#268685
Dec 6, 2012
 

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cpeter1313 wrote:
Thanks..she got her wish, to leave the hospital and go home. She didn't suffer. That's what mattered.
<quoted text>
I just saw this, cpeter. I'm sorry, my friend. That changes the world forever.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#268686
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but all you did was to prove that YOU were wrong when you implied in your post to Elise that a nurse should know the codes, when they aren't used by the nurse.
Someone who was actually in the medical profession would know that. So much for your claim that you were in Med school all those years ago.
He tries any stupid thing to try to make himself feel that he has any power to influence me, in any way. He has a raging case of uterus envy. He is an impotent little man:-(

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

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#268687
Dec 6, 2012
 

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lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
"Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous."
Pregnancy ends upon death of fetus. Fetus doesn't develop pregnancy ended whether fetus came out of not. That is what a spontaneous abortion is.
It may be missed or incomplete spontaneous abortion, but pregnancy aborted the moment that fetus died a natural death in utero.
I've made that claim several times since you people started posting your stupoidity back in Jan. and I found proof of my claims. Where's the proof of yours?
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-symptoms...
"A missed miscarriage occurs when a fetus has died in the womb or in utero."
Miscarriage is another word for what? Spontaneous abortion. A pregnancy is already aborted once fetus dies, as I've stated repeatedly.
"However a pregnant woman who had fetal death just before 20 weeks without the other signs of miscarriage could be still considered as having a missed miscarriage. "
"The longer the fetus stays in utero, however, the more potential symptoms could occur. For instance, the pregnancy will fail to progress. The belly won’t grow as it would if a developing fetus were present. Most importantly, Doppler exam will show no evidence of fetal heartbeat, and any sonogram/ultrasound would show a fetus that is completely still and has no heartbeat. "
"Good prenatal care is useful in making sure a missed miscarriage is identified. Most often doctors will want to treat this by performing a dilation and curettage (D & C), if miscarriage doesn’t begin in a few days. Presence of the fetus in the body does result in much higher risk for systemic infection, which could be life-threatening. In fact failure to diagnose missed miscarriage, often as a result of no prenatal care, could lead to a situation where the first symptom is blood infection or sepsis. "
It goes on about it.
ALL things we pro-lifers already knew and have posted. It's pro-choicers who want to change the meanings of certain terms.
I'm sorry, but not only didn't your source prove what you're saying, it actually disproved it. AND, the medical source I gave to No Relevance, as opposed to YOUR source for lay people, ALSO disproved it.

Surely you noticed the word "missed" in there? That means what?....that the miscarriage has NOT taken place just because the fetus had died. Your source ALSO continued on that "the pregnant woman.....", meaning she is STILL pregnant until the MISSED miscarriage is complete, whether that happens naturally or not.

So much for your implication that only anti-choicers can understand what they read, lol.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

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#268688
Dec 6, 2012
 

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lil Lily wrote:
Wonder how many PCers will try to dismiss the info I provided in post 268679, claiming it's not a "medical" site. The info is what it is. I challenge them to prove the info wrong.
No reason for me to dismiss it as it proves you wrong, lol. I DID point out that it's a site for lay people, though.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#268689
Dec 6, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Nurses should know the codes. Especially in hospice, home care, inpatient rehabilitation, etc.
Reimbursement much?
_________
"Any charting used by coders for billing will need to include clearer details, meaning nurses must be trained in ICD-10 clinical documentation requirements in order to prevent delays and denials. IF D-10 has a greater level of specificity than ICD-9 for problems, assessments, procedures and treatments. For example, ICD-9 includes nine codes for pressure ulcers, while ICD-10 has over 125."
http://www.beckersasc.com/asc-coding-billing-...
Bullshit. Ask any staff nurse you know if she needs to know coding. Administrators are often nurses, but they rarely work on the floor with patients. I'm a charge nurse, and I am not involved with billing and coding, you silly little man. I am in charge of making sure our patients get the best care. We keep track of supplies used, and staffing on each shift, to ensure best care/best practice. That does effect costs, but we don't worry about codes. You were never in this field. Ever.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#268690
Dec 6, 2012
 
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text> I hear ya. Since death is our last chance to tell people what to do lol, I think whatever you want (within the law anyway) should be honored.
I agree.

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