Ambulance Collides With Tractor-Trail...

Ambulance Collides With Tractor-Trailer While Responding To Crash; EMT Killed

There are 248 comments on the WCHS-TV Charleston story from Jan 15, 2013, titled Ambulance Collides With Tractor-Trailer While Responding To Crash; EMT Killed. In it, WCHS-TV Charleston reports that:

Bethany Simmons Web Producer: Bethany Simmons Reported: Jan. 15, 2013 9:20 AM EST Updated: Jan.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WCHS-TV Charleston.

The Insider

Beckley, WV

#195 Feb 1, 2013
27yrMedic wrote:
<quoted text>
You just talking about one aspect of a union contract; Pay. Pay Its the most talked about, but it occupies the least numbers of pages and the fewest words and articles in any union contract. That is because there is much much more to a union than just raises. One major article that I have seen on NEMSA's website where they have all their SIGNED contracts that they have negotiated is SAFETY and Fatigue protections that protect the EMT, Paramedic or Driver from being disciplined for saying they are too tired to take a call. Management in those contracts cannot say to a crew or have dispatch say to a crew who tells them they are too tired to run "are you refusing this call" . If a crew calls fatigue, thats it no questions asked. The crew is immediately sent to quarters for a minimum of 4 uninterrupted hours of PAID sleep with no penalty to the crew. The union put SAFETY first. Oh and if the crew calls fatigue on the way back from a long distance transport over a certain amount of miles, the company must put them up in the closest hotel to where they are and keep them on the clock including OT until they get back the next day. This is just ONE of the articles in several contracts that are all over a hundred pages long. All the other articles this NEMSA union negotiated are just as employee centered as the fatigue one is.
This is exactly why a lot of us are flat convinced that had we been working under this union with a contract similar to all the other ones NEMSA has negotiated that Mark Kinder would very likely still be alive today. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to read the protections that Mark would have had under a NEMSA contract and then ask themselves: is there any reason to not bring NEMSA in as our part in doing all we can to make sure this doesn't happen again?
So let me get this straight. You want us to believe that NEMSA could've saved Mark's life because of its contracts? They had been on station for six hours, they willingly accepted the call with no complaints of "we're too tired" or "find someone else," and they had completed the first leg of the call and were returning to their station. You want us to believe that, in spite of all these things, having NEMSA's "contract" means Mark would still be with us? This is the most exploitative and foolish argument you pro-union guys have come up with yet! Do us a favor ok? Stop politicizing this tragic ACCIDENT. Get a little class and find a new approach!
1 post removed
BIG TOE

Beckley, WV

#197 Feb 1, 2013
The Insider wrote:
<quoted text>
So let me get this straight. You want us to believe that NEMSA could've saved Mark's life because of its contracts? They had been on station for six hours, they willingly accepted the call with no complaints of "we're too tired" or "find someone else," and they had completed the first leg of the call and were returning to their station. You want us to believe that, in spite of all these things, having NEMSA's "contract" means Mark would still be with us? This is the most exploitative and foolish argument you pro-union guys have come up with yet! Do us a favor ok? Stop politicizing this tragic ACCIDENT. Get a little class and find a new approach!
Insider, you just politicized Marks death with YOUR post!
But since you opened the book, I'll comment on it.
The union will form a safety committee of its members to act as officials in keeping their members safe. Back injuries, ambulance accidents, other highway safety issues,station safety like smoke detectors,CO detectors and criminal enforcement, would name a few item of concern. You might want to listen to the tape again, there WAS a safety discussion to dispatch about the transport to Ruby. Nice to know they had ONLY worked "18 hours straight" before they got the long distance call. The Union safety committee is a valuable tool for the union members and the company to for that matter; when it comes to safety.

Its not uncommon for unions to come in and actually increase profits and decrease risk while improving morale. Every union member wants their company to do well and stay competitive with the market.

So is there anything else? We showed you the union contract proof.
Major safety risks are present.... obviously with six ambulance accidents in 5 months, with one fatality and 4 injuries, there is a safety issue in this company. The only safety measures made by the company, were for insurance rate breaks only$$!!! Real safety has yet to be addressed by the company,as you can see. I believe we have covered about everything needed to prove that a UNION is needed around here. If after ALL this, you still continue to think the union is less than needed, then we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a safe night.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#198 Feb 1, 2013
Great post BIG TOE I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you and to all who are standing up for our safety, profession, dignity and for whats right.
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#199 Feb 2, 2013
BIG TOE wrote:
<quoted text>
Insider, you just politicized Marks death with YOUR post!
But since you opened the book, I'll comment on it.
The union will form a safety committee of its members to act as officials in keeping their members safe. Back injuries, ambulance accidents, other highway safety issues,station safety like smoke detectors,CO detectors and criminal enforcement, would name a few item of concern. You might want to listen to the tape again, there WAS a safety discussion to dispatch about the transport to Ruby. Nice to know they had ONLY worked "18 hours straight" before they got the long distance call. The Union safety committee is a valuable tool for the union members and the company to for that matter; when it comes to safety.
Its not uncommon for unions to come in and actually increase profits and decrease risk while improving morale. Every union member wants their company to do well and stay competitive with the market.
So is there anything else? We showed you the union contract proof.
Major safety risks are present.... obviously with six ambulance accidents in 5 months, with one fatality and 4 injuries, there is a safety issue in this company. The only safety measures made by the company, were for insurance rate breaks only$$!!! Real safety has yet to be addressed by the company,as you can see. I believe we have covered about everything needed to prove that a UNION is needed around here. If after ALL this, you still continue to think the union is less than needed, then we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a safe night.
BIG TOE
Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't realize that pro-union supporters are allowed and even encouraged to bring up Mark's death, but anti-union people are NOT allowed to respond in any way because that's "politicizing it." When YOU bring it up, it's "a valid point." When we counter that it was a tragic accident, we're "politicizing it." When you bring it up, it shows how Jan-Care "doesn't care about safety!" When we respond by saying that they had been on station for six hours and that they willingly took the call, we're "exploiting the tragedy!" When you say "a union contract would've saved Mark's life," it's completely tasteful and appropriate. When we counter by saying that a contract cannot prevent accidents (especially in this case where no safety concerns were raised by the crew anyway), then we are "sick and careless." Thank you so much for clearing that up!
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#200 Feb 2, 2013
Btw BIG TOE and Medick 7,
I've heard that NEMSA is really only interested in representing the employees of Raleigh county. Is that accurate?

I'm sure they've promised YOU a place at the bargaining table and shop stewardships, but what about all the employees of other counties?

Food for thought, everyone!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#201 Feb 2, 2013
The Insider wrote:
Btw BIG TOE and Medick 7,
I've heard that NEMSA is really only interested in representing the employees of Raleigh county. Is that accurate?
I'm sure they've promised YOU a place at the bargaining table and shop stewardships, but what about all the employees of other counties?
Food for thought, everyone!
Easy now my excited management friend. NEMSA will be representing every county. You see there is a process. As Each County is considered its own operation the voting will be by county, or have you forgotten that the company split everything into different operating areas in order to limit their legal liabilities if they get sued, thus why our pay stubs have JC Raleigh, JC Fayette Co, etc.

So here we see again that when the Cornetts benefit the divisions are separate, and when they will not benefit they are done the oposite way. I think that is called hypocrisy. We in Raleigh were simply the first to have the cards done. Over 90% BTW and that is just what it was at the time the election was filed for, we continued to gather cards after the filing. The other counties are quickly following. Sorry to burst your company bubble.
Haha

Chesapeake, OH

#202 Feb 2, 2013
Medick 7 wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy now my excited management friend. NEMSA will be representing every county. You see there is a process. As Each County is considered its own operation the voting will be by county, or have you forgotten that the company split everything into different operating areas in order to limit their legal liabilities if they get sued, thus why our pay stubs have JC Raleigh, JC Fayette Co, etc.
So here we see again that when the Cornetts benefit the divisions are separate, and when they will not benefit they are done the oposite way. I think that is called hypocrisy. We in Raleigh were simply the first to have the cards done. Over 90% BTW and that is just what it was at the time the election was filed for, we continued to gather cards after the filing. The other counties are quickly following. Sorry to burst your company bubble.
Yeah right! It's because Fayette county threw you out on your a**. So you all gathered up what dignity you could muster and filed with 30% of Raleigh. Pitiful. Oh and stop calling everyone who disagrees with you management. It makes you look stupid.
Not company man

Charlottesville, VA

#203 Feb 2, 2013
Bottom line.The workers now get nothing,That they don't get charged out the butt for.In other words nothing to loose.Worked like slaves,Treated worse,No job security.Couldn't be paid less"Its against the law to pay less than what corporate hands out.Now they try and act as if corporate is concerned about the well being of employees.Reminds me of an abuser who talks really nice to that dog and holds out a steak,Until it gets close enough to where he can kick it.Its an insult of employees intelligence,To think they are that gullible.And Todds letter is ridicules.Paying dues for 1.And getting nothing in return.Just getting paid for so called sleep time will take care of that in less than a week.Or the overtime after 12 in a 24 hr shift.Just 2 out of a whole book of changes that go with a contract.And saying he would not haft to agree to a contract.Well all the companies before him said the same,Until the judge has his say.After that it is"disobeying a court order". He feeds you deception to no end ,or this would have been part of his letter.Actual contract are available for anyone to see.And you can bet your bottom dollar the other companies played the same routine as his.Talks about we don't need a union."we" I guess its his family he is talking about.I think everyone should take a look at the contacts that are in place.Pay, working conditions,Safety,Just for a few.Nothing could be worse than what is in place now,Which is nothing.And if for some reason this union does not work out after giving them a chance.Another can be voted in.Its the law.But don't believe for a second you will end up with less than you have now.The labor board judge will not let him get away with that kind of bull crap.http://www.nlrb.gov/what- we-do/conduct-elections http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employe ... Read these from the labor board about signing a contract,Also about getting another union if the one you have is not doing the job.First things first,Get the unions in and stop the slavery sweat shop period. Here is the link for new union if first one does not do the job for u http://www.nlrb.gov/what-we-do/conduct-electi ...
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#204 Feb 4, 2013
Not company man wrote:
Bottom line.The workers now get nothing,That they don't get charged out the butt for.In other words nothing to loose.Worked like slaves,Treated worse,No job security.Couldn't be paid less"Its against the law to pay less than what corporate hands out.Now they try and act as if corporate is concerned about the well being of employees.Reminds me of an abuser who talks really nice to that dog and holds out a steak,Until it gets close enough to where he can kick it.Its an insult of employees intelligence,To think they are that gullible.And Todds letter is ridicules.Paying dues for 1.And getting nothing in return.Just getting paid for so called sleep time will take care of that in less than a week.Or the overtime after 12 in a 24 hr shift.Just 2 out of a whole book of changes that go with a contract.And saying he would not haft to agree to a contract.Well all the companies before him said the same,Until the judge has his say.After that it is"disobeying a court order". He feeds you deception to no end ,or this would have been part of his letter.Actual contract are available for anyone to see.And you can bet your bottom dollar the other companies played the same routine as his.Talks about we don't need a union."we" I guess its his family he is talking about.I think everyone should take a look at the contacts that are in place.Pay, working conditions,Safety,Just for a few.Nothing could be worse than what is in place now,Which is nothing.And if for some reason this union does not work out after giving them a chance.Another can be voted in.Its the law.But don't believe for a second you will end up with less than you have now.The labor board judge will not let him get away with that kind of bull crap.http://www.nlrb.gov/what- we-do/conduct-elections http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employe ... Read these from the labor board about signing a contract,Also about getting another union if the one you have is not doing the job.First things first,Get the unions in and stop the slavery sweat shop period. Here is the link for new union if first one does not do the job for u http://www.nlrb.gov/what-we-do/conduct-electi ...
Once again-the company does NOT "haft to" agree to a contract! They only requirement is that company representatives bargain in good faith. There will be no "labor board judge" come in and order the company to accept a contract. That's illegal.

Like other desperate souls on this forum, Not company man is attempting to fluff up the union's support by making outlandish claims and veiled threats. It's funny-they lecture US on deception!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#205 Feb 4, 2013
That is correct the company must bargain in good faith and that is what they are afraid of because it's against their nature. Good faith has very significant weight behind it. If it didn't there are many a less than fair company that would come to the table. So you just keep thinking that all management has to do is hold it's breath until you turn blue. Not gonna work. Again look at the contracts that NEMSA has achieved from much bigger and nastier companies that have a lot more money and better lawyers than JC.
what now

Oak Hill, WV

#206 Feb 4, 2013
So if we get a union and dont get what we want from the company, then what. Do you really think we could go on strike. I bet that would last about 5 min before some federal judge says to go back to work due to endangering public safety. So what do we do we will be paying union dues and no ability to enforce it. Both sides will be at a log jam and we will be even worse than we are.
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#207 Feb 4, 2013
Medick 7 wrote:
So you just keep thinking that all management has to do is hold it's breath until you turn blue. Not gonna work. Again look at the contracts that NEMSA has achieved from much bigger and nastier companies that have a lot more money and better lawyers than JC.
Ok, we will. And you just keep holding YOUR breath until NEMSA rides in on a white horse and "punishes" those evildoers of Jan-Care management by making them pay for their crimes!! We'll see who passes out first. My guess is it will be you, and it will occur after you realize that NEMSA just wants your money.

Ready? On the count of three; one, two...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#208 Feb 4, 2013
How about this for some math my smart management pal. NEMSA has been able to get more contracts out of ambulance companies than JC has refused to negotiate. Translated NEMSA has way more experience negotiating ems labor contracts than JC. I will gladly take that bet. My money is on NEMSA.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209 Feb 4, 2013
what now wrote:
So if we get a union and dont get what we want from the company, then what. Do you really think we could go on strike. I bet that would last about 5 min before some federal judge says to go back to work due to endangering public safety. So what do we do we will be paying union dues and no ability to enforce it. Both sides will be at a log jam and we will be even worse than we are.
What part of we don't pay dues until we have contract that we have voted to approve don't you understand?
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#210 Feb 4, 2013
Medick 7 wrote:
How about this for some math my smart management pal. NEMSA has been able to get more contracts out of ambulance companies than JC has refused to negotiate. Translated NEMSA has way more experience negotiating ems labor contracts than JC. I will gladly take that bet. My money is on NEMSA.
Thank you for the math lesson: it was very informative. In fact, I was so inspired to explore the mathematics behind NEMSA, that I did a little more research on my own. There are seventeen (17) "contracts" listed on the NEMSA website. Eight (8) of those are either "pending," expired, or will be expiring within the next 60 days. That means a full 47% of all the great contracts NEMSA negotiated are either still being negotiated (4), were allowed to expire (2), or are soon to be up for renewal (2).

http://www.nemsausa.org/home_member.php

If NEMSA can negotiate such fantastic contracts (with NAGE's money and clerical staff), I wonder why only about 53% of them will actually be in effect on April 1 (with no small irony, April Fools' Day)?

Of course, I won't need to point out the obvious fact that with these great contracts falling apart, NEMSA will soon find itself short on money (again). Hence, the sudden interest in Jan-Care Ambulance. Imagine that...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#211 Feb 4, 2013
So riddle me this. How is it that NEMSA has NAGE money and at the same time is broke? You can't seem to keep your arguments straight.

It's also obvious that you don't have a clue how union.contracts work. Companies would love longer term contracts with NEMSA, but NEMSA doesn't do contracts over three years in length because EVERY successive contract builds on the last one. its NEMSA that opens thr contracts for renegotiating. And again EVERY successive contract is also voted on by the members. If would actually read the contracts you would see that NEMSA gets more with every contract. Unlike management, NEMSA can actually deliver. That's why they are not afraid to open them up or not charge anything until the members approve.
good question

Lewisburg, WV

#212 Feb 4, 2013
Medick 7 wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of we don't pay dues until we have contract that we have voted to approve don't you understand?
I dont they were asking about dues. I understand the question as what will do if we vote one a contract and the company dont agree to it. then what? Do we go on strike or what? Just because we vote on a contact we all like does not mean the management has to accept it. And what happens if the union and management never reaches a agreement?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#213 Feb 4, 2013
The members do not vote on the contact until management has already agreed to it. A contract vote by the membership is the final approval that puts the contract that has been negotiated between the union and our elected team from the workforce and management so it is not possible that the members vote on a contract that hasn't already been agreed to by management. Again NO DUES until we vote on a contract that will actually be implemented every word, otherwise we don't pay a dime.
The Insider

Beckley, WV

#214 Feb 5, 2013
Medick 7 wrote:
So riddle me this. How is it that NEMSA has NAGE money and at the same time is broke? You can't seem to keep your arguments straight.
It's also obvious that you don't have a clue how union.contracts work. Companies would love longer term contracts with NEMSA, but NEMSA doesn't do contracts over three years in length because EVERY successive contract builds on the last one. its NEMSA that opens thr contracts for renegotiating. And again EVERY successive contract is also voted on by the members. If would actually read the contracts you would see that NEMSA gets more with every contract. Unlike management, NEMSA can actually deliver. That's why they are not afraid to open them up or not charge anything until the members approve.
Do you really need me to spell this out for you?? NEMSA has to USE NAGE money precisely BECAUSE they're broke! There's no inconsistency here-it's simple economics!

Read the contract-NAGE agreed to provide EVERYTHING (money, lawyers, negotiators, clerical staff, facilities, etc) to NEMSA and in return, NAGE gets 85%(soon to be 90%) of the union dues NEMSA collects. NEMSA still gets to call itself a real "union" and NAGE gets more income because the people they provide to NEMSA already work for NAGE anyway! Do you understand yet? A third grader could see this.
Not company man

Harrisonburg, VA

#215 Feb 5, 2013
what now wrote:
So if we get a union and dont get what we want from the company, then what. Do you really think we could go on strike. I bet that would last about 5 min before some federal judge says to go back to work due to endangering public safety. So what do we do we will be paying union dues and no ability to enforce it. Both sides will be at a log jam and we will be even worse than we are.
If you look at existing contracts,You will be able to see what the judges consider good faith negotiations.Some are on hand.More available this week.Otherwise no contracts would ever be in place.That's why it works.If they refuse,A contract will be put in place by the courts.

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