Catcher in the Rye, To Kill A Mocking...
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Hugh Victor Thompson III

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

#51 Dec 8, 2012
Hilliard Luddite wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you know of knowledge?
Luddite.
You do realize that perhaps the leading Luddite in this country is your boy Obama. What else do you call someone who ended US manned spaceflight capabilities?

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#52 Dec 8, 2012
Big Johnson wrote:
'Catcher In The Rye' sucks.
Furthermore it is extremely dated. Time to move onto more relevant works.
The themes of teen age confusion and angst are irrelevant in the 21st century? Are you so confident that we ought not to expose others to the society that our parents or grandparents may have experienced as adolescents? Themes of belonging, confusion, and sexuality are not universal?

Is your idea of relevant works related to obscenity? ;) Maybe your problem with Catcher in the Rye is that it is not as explicit as as your daddy's porn stash and it doesn't have pictures?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#53 Dec 8, 2012
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
The themes of teen age confusion and angst are irrelevant in the 21st century? Are you so confident that we ought not to expose others to the society that our parents or grandparents may have experienced as adolescents? Themes of belonging, confusion, and sexuality are not universal?
Is your idea of relevant works related to obscenity? ;) Maybe your problem with Catcher in the Rye is that it is not as explicit as as your daddy's porn stash and it doesn't have pictures?
I

I agree regarding the themes and so forth. However, the book has always served as a lightning rod because of the language and behavior of the protagonist. I would imagine that the folks who were constucting the list of examples preferred to deal with other issues.

The reality is that constructing a set of standards that the vast majority of states have signed on to is a major coup de gras. And the fact that it was state-led rather than federally developed is yet another significant accomplishment.

“Queen of my domain”

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#54 Dec 8, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>I
I agree regarding the themes and so forth. However, the book has always served as a lightning rod because of the language and behavior of the protagonist. I would imagine that the folks who were constucting the list of examples preferred to deal with other issues.
The reality is that constructing a set of standards that the vast majority of states have signed on to is a major coup de gras. And the fact that it was state-led rather than federally developed is yet another significant accomplishment.
I was just commenting on the notion that it was irrelevant in today's society. I don't see it that way. Catcher was not read in my high school, then of course, I went to a Catholic high school where other "classics" were read -- Shakespeare, Theodore Dreiser, Plato, Aristotle, and so on. Still, my love for reading was encouraged there as well as by my parents. But when my kids were reading Jack Kerouac and Frank McCourt in high school (one had to read then watch Angela's Ashes and write a paper on that--but I don't remember if it was for a standard HS lit class or for an AP class, which is possible), I had no objection. I'm not certain the argument should be based on the notion of "currency" of the material (whether it was written/published in 1900 or 2000), but should be based on the appropriateness to the subject being taught. Literature IMHO should always be introduced and taught to kids as should other subjects more technical or scientific.

If we're trying to get kids to read, Boom was on target. Just go to the library, bookstore, whatever, get something that tickles your fancy and JUST READ IT and don't discourage the kids basically due to your notions of what is "age-appropriate" or "socially relevant" (of course, don't give the kiddies your porn stash). Kids will learn well often by letting them explore their own interests independently as well. Education extends well beyond the classroom that is fought over by "state interests" and "federal interests."

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#55 Dec 8, 2012
gokeefe wrote:
<quoted text>
I was just commenting on the notion that it was irrelevant in today's society. I don't see it that way. Catcher was not read in my high school, then of course, I went to a Catholic high school where other "classics" were read -- Shakespeare, Theodore Dreiser, Plato, Aristotle, and so on. Still, my love for reading was encouraged there as well as by my parents. But when my kids were reading Jack Kerouac and Frank McCourt in high school (one had to read then watch Angela's Ashes and write a paper on that--but I don't remember if it was for a standard HS lit class or for an AP class, which is possible), I had no objection. I'm not certain the argument should be based on the notion of "currency" of the material (whether it was written/published in 1900 or 2000), but should be based on the appropriateness to the subject being taught. Literature IMHO should always be introduced and taught to kids as should other subjects more technical or scientific.
If we're trying to get kids to read, Boom was on target. Just go to the library, bookstore, whatever, get something that tickles your fancy and JUST READ IT and don't discourage the kids basically due to your notions of what is "age-appropriate" or "socially relevant" (of course, don't give the kiddies your porn stash). Kids will learn well often by letting them explore their own interests independently as well. Education extends well beyond the classroom that is fought over by "state interests" and "federal interests."
I agree. I had one reluctant reader (actually loved stories, but preferred being read to) and when he found books that were of sufficient interest to him to make it worth reading, I didn't much care what the subject matter was.

I also always took a pretty broad view in exposing my kids to "literature." We always went to the Shakespeare plays in Schiller Park in the summer and I made them go with me to see movies at the Drexel that weren't necessarily the usual teeny-bopper movies. In fact, with my reluctant reader, I frequently picked movies with subtitles. He loved La Vie En Rose.
Ignorance is Strength

Guelph, Canada

#56 Dec 11, 2012
You know what i wish id been forced to read in high school? 1984
Truth be told

Cleveland, OH

#57 Dec 11, 2012
America is so far behind other countries in education.
What's wrong with this picture?

Dumbing down America is not the answer
This makes us vulnerable ......

Needed: Good dedicated teachers
Much needed changed curriculum
Keep cursive writing
Able to read books....freedom of speech,press.
Back to the three R's basics

“Hey, Sarge!”

Since: Dec 10

The Milky Way

#58 Dec 11, 2012
Truth be told wrote:
America is so far behind other countries in education.
What's wrong with this picture?

Dumbing down America is not the answer
This makes us vulnerable ......

Needed: Good dedicated teachers
Much needed changed curriculum
Keep cursive writing
Able to read books....freedom of speech,press.
Back to the three R's basics
Easy to say until YOU are in the classroom!
You have no idea how hamstrung public school teachers are.
Been there done that!
Truth be told

Cleveland, OH

#60 Dec 11, 2012
Boomer7 wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy to say until YOU are in the classroom!
You have no idea how hamstrung public school teachers are.
Been there done that!
Then send the kids to a private school, IF you can afford the fees.
There are good and bad in every walk of life.
Also, if the parents aren't active in or with the school,and never sign papers and attend conferences, there you go! Unruly kids with no direction from their family. Some parents think school is a babysitting service.
Today, all the teachers are doing is preparing kids for stupid tests that are required by the state and not teaching per say what they are there for.

Kids are more unruly today because the teachers have no leverage....parents don't allow the teachers to be the leader of the class....parents coddle the kids too much and the kids play both against the other.
Spoiled brats, who can't take any heat when they do something wrong. Right away the parents will sue or cause trouble, instead of teaching the kids to respect authority in the schools and on the job.
It seems like no one takes responsibility for their actions anymore.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#61 Dec 11, 2012
Karl Monday wrote:
<quoted text>
...Cursive is useless, replace it with basic financial literacy.
Books are obsolete, we should replace textbooks with instituionally owned Ipads, but they'll need to resemble "toughbook" laptops used in the military.
Many public school students already receive taxpayer-funded iPads.
But, seriously, taxpayers should demand that students actually be able to read...before receiving one.
Truth be told

Cleveland, OH

#62 Dec 11, 2012
Karl Monday wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, the problems in American education are mostly caused in urban schools, with mostly poor "minority" students. A lesser problem exists in Appalachia with mostly poor "white" students.
Schools in the suburbs do just as well as their Eurotrash counterparts, with less funding and less instructional time.
Eliminate the PC in the curriculum, staring with John Dewey's "social studies" return it as history.
Cursive is useless, replace it with basic financial literacy.
Books are obsolete, we should replace textbooks with instituionally owned Ipads, but they'll need to resemble "toughbook" laptops used in the military.
It doesn't matter what they read from, iPad or a real book, as long as they read. Although taxes will go sky high of every kids gets an iPad.
I think cursive should be taught as an elective because it should never be allowed to fade out of use.
I love to write in cursive, and very seldom print, and I know most kids print today.
Social studies is good for anyone to learn, basic knowledge of the subject makes a well rounded student.
I agree teaching financial responsibility in everyday life and beyond.
Our nation was ranked lower than most countries in different categories. This should not be.

“Hey, Sarge!”

Since: Dec 10

The Milky Way

#65 Dec 11, 2012
Truth be told wrote:
<quoted text>Then send the kids to a private school, IF you can afford the fees.
There are good and bad in every walk of life.
Also, if the parents aren't active in or with the school,and never sign papers and attend conferences, there you go! Unruly kids with no direction from their family. Some parents think school is a babysitting service.
Today, all the teachers are doing is preparing kids for stupid tests that are required by the state and not teaching per say what they are there for.

Kids are more unruly today because the teachers have no leverage....parents don't allow the teachers to be the leader of the class....parents coddle the kids too much and the kids play both against the other.
Spoiled brats, who can't take any heat when they do something wrong. Right away the parents will sue or cause trouble, instead of teaching the kids to respect authority in the schools and on the job.
It seems like no one takes responsibility for their actions anymore.
Good point.
You find the same spoiled and unruly brats in private schools as well.
Money allows them to jump from one to another!

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