Local dams being targeted for electri...

Local dams being targeted for electricity

There are 20 comments on the Berkshire Eagle story from Dec 5, 2009, titled Local dams being targeted for electricity. In it, Berkshire Eagle reports that:

A group working to harvest hyrdo-generated electricity from local dams has identified 11 dams that, if fitted with turbines, could pump an average of 1,169 kilowatts of power into the grid, enough to supply the average need of more than 300 homes.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Berkshire Eagle.

RAMC

Vienna, VA

#1 Dec 6, 2009
I’m not sure where these folks have been, but it HAS been done before, by that I mean shortened licensing period. Twenty years ago, licensing small projects (about 1,000 projects) was done in a year or two and most of those projects have not caused any environmental issues even though the NGOs would have you believe they did because they weren’t that involved. I have some bad news for them – they are the problem, not the solution. It is ludicrous for a small hydro project to take years for licensing and everyone involved should step back and assess their involvement, and most of all be embarrassed for being a part of the delays and exorbitant costs of licensing.
gladius

Alton, NH

#2 Dec 6, 2009
RAMC wrote:
I’m not sure where these folks have been, but it HAS been done before, by that I mean shortened licensing period. Twenty years ago, licensing small projects (about 1,000 projects) was done in a year or two and most of those projects have not caused any environmental issues even though the NGOs would have you believe they did because they weren’t that involved. I have some bad news for them – they are the problem, not the solution. It is ludicrous for a small hydro project to take years for licensing and everyone involved should step back and assess their involvement, and most of all be embarrassed for being a part of the delays and exorbitant costs of licensing.
Those mean spirited, envious bâstards who will not directly profit from such projects will invariably find stumbling blocks to cast in front of them.

Since: May 08

South Glens Falls, NY

#3 Dec 7, 2009
Why not rig the outflow from the sewage treatment plants with small hydro set ups?
keylogger

Pittsfield, MA

#4 Dec 7, 2009
it will be to expensive after the zebra muscles take over ALL the rivers around here.
Glasnos

Apopka, FL

#5 Dec 7, 2009
Noone stops to apply common logic. 11 dams ... installing turbines to 11 dams ... to supply just 300 homes? Does not sound economically viable to me.
Here's one for you nerfballs ... you know those water towers in cities? We pump that water up in the middle of the night (off peak)... how about we install a mini turbine as we use the water in day? ROFL
Glasnos

Apopka, FL

#6 Dec 7, 2009
keylogger wrote:
it will be to expensive after the zebra muscles take over ALL the rivers around here.
The zebra musseles are the best thing that has happened for fresh water lakes and streams. Do a little research about the great lakes and the zebra muscle ... They singlehandedly cleaned the great lakes ... to the agony of the "enviornmentalists" who looked for ways to stop them. They claimed all sort of "enviornmental damage" and havock to municipal intakes and such ... but as the lake water was cleaned ... the musseles disappered into deeper water. enviornmentalists = ignorant whackos
They don't really want to clean anything up ... they'd rather rail on industry and american capitalism
Skippy

Mystic, CT

#7 Dec 7, 2009
Why was this not done fifty - sixty years ago? Same reason the tram track were ripped out of city street?
Reap what you sow.
gladius

Alton, NH

#8 Dec 7, 2009
Glasnos wrote:
<quoted text>
The zebra musseles are the best thing that has happened for fresh water lakes and streams. Do a little research about the great lakes and the zebra muscle ... They singlehandedly cleaned the great lakes ... to the agony of the "enviornmentalists" who looked for ways to stop them. They claimed all sort of "enviornmental damage" and havock to municipal intakes and such ... but as the lake water was cleaned ... the musseles disappered into deeper water. enviornmentalists = ignorant whackos
They don't really want to clean anything up ... they'd rather rail on industry and american capitalism
Good post. I knew of the cleanup effect but have remained unaware of the migration to deeper waters. Are they still a problem in the cooling water circuits of power plants?

An idea that once occurred to me that I never pursued was the possibility of harvesting the mussels for use as a soil amendment / enrichment. Prolific as they seem to be, perhaps yet one more renewable resource?
gladius

Alton, NH

#9 Dec 7, 2009
Glasnos wrote:
Noone stops to apply common logic. 11 dams ... installing turbines to 11 dams ... to supply just 300 homes? Does not sound economically viable to me.
Here's one for you nerfballs ... you know those water towers in cities? We pump that water up in the middle of the night (off peak)... how about we install a mini turbine as we use the water in day? ROFL
Ever study the physics of hydroturbines? What type of turbine do you recommend?
gladius

Alton, NH

#10 Dec 7, 2009
Skippy wrote:
Why was this not done fifty - sixty years ago? Same reason the tram track were ripped out of city street?
Reap what you sow.
Ask Trout Unlimited and the greenie goofballs who so fervently dream the impossible dream of spawning Atlantic Salmon.
Glasnos

Apopka, FL

#11 Dec 7, 2009
gladius wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post. I knew of the cleanup effect but have remained unaware of the migration to deeper waters. Are they still a problem in the cooling water circuits of power plants?
An idea that once occurred to me that I never pursued was the possibility of harvesting the mussels for use as a soil amendment / enrichment. Prolific as they seem to be, perhaps yet one more renewable resource?
The zebra mussels were a real problem to intake pipes for the first few years ... but as the water cleaned up, the mussels moved into deeper water ... and I don't believe they pose any problems now to intakes. For the few millions in damage they did, they were an incredible bargain for restoring the lakes to much cleaner waters.
In rivers they act as beacons for pollution sources. The closer to a pollution source the greater numbers of zebras and higher concentrations of contaminates the mussels contain.
Glasnos

Apopka, FL

#12 Dec 7, 2009
gladius wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever study the physics of hydroturbines? What type of turbine do you recommend?
It was a joke!
Installing 11 turbines to supply just 300 homes?... impractical.
KSM

Princeton, MA

#13 Dec 8, 2009
gladius wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever study the physics of hydroturbines? What type of turbine do you recommend?
Prototype design, installation reviewed:

www.canyonhydro.com/
KAJ

Coral Gables, FL

#14 Dec 8, 2009
Iwas pleased beyond my wildest dreams that someone is finally doing somethign about Hyero Power in the Berkshires. I read it to mean that the power would power an average of 300 homes per turbine, but even if not that is 300 homes that are not dependant on foreigh oil. Sotp and think about all the water getting a free ride down the hill in New England. This project should have been started in 1973 when the Arabs shut the oil spicket off the first tiime. I agree with Galdius that there will be groups form to throw every stumbling block in the path of this porject because they are not profiting directly from this. Now lets put this same expidited permitting process in effect to get a By-pass and extend the runway at he Pittsfield Airport
Glasnos

Apopka, FL

#15 Dec 8, 2009
KAJ wrote:
Iwas pleased beyond my wildest dreams that someone is finally doing somethign about Hyero Power in the Berkshires. I read it to mean that the power would power an average of 300 homes per turbine, but even if not that is 300 homes that are not dependant on foreigh oil. Sotp and think about all the water getting a free ride down the hill in New England. This project should have been started in 1973 when the Arabs shut the oil spicket off the first tiime. I agree with Galdius that there will be groups form to throw every stumbling block in the path of this porject because they are not profiting directly from this. Now lets put this same expidited permitting process in effect to get a By-pass and extend the runway at he Pittsfield Airport
Has everyone lost all common sense? How much does it cost to retrofit a damn with a turbine, set up a small power generating station, and operate it? I don't see how 300 homes are going to pay for this.
Lowell55

San Jose, CA

#16 Dec 8, 2009
You probably don't even realize we have a Hyro Plant in Lowell. No not the Boot Mills, there is a plant off of Lawrence Street on the Concord. Has been there since 1990. Also one in Methuen Center on the Spicket for 25 years. Owner had to jump through hopes to get licensed so the little fishes wouldn't get hurt. We hear John Kerry rail against global warming but fought wind turbines off of the cape so he could sail the "Scatamoush" without obstacles and his view wouldn't hindred on the Vineyard. Ah the beautiful people, got to love the hypocrites!!!!
Bass Guy

Clockville, NY

#17 Dec 8, 2009
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Fish will die, ducks will be in harms way, and it makes sense. Next thing you know, they will want to put up wind mills for power.
gladius

Alton, NH

#18 Dec 8, 2009
Glasnos wrote:
<quoted text>
Has everyone lost all common sense? How much does it cost to retrofit a damn with a turbine, set up a small power generating station, and operate it? I don't see how 300 homes are going to pay for this.
depends on the head and flow available, etc.

I have in possession cost estimates for a 20 kW Pelton wheel installation in a very small brook (almost a trickle) that would not top $40,000. A site with similar head and greater sustained flow would have a lower per KW installed cost.

The point being missed here is that small dams that would not have easily fallen under state control have been demolished under the bogus premise of "re-wilding" a stream.

Plain stupid U.N. environmentalist crap.
gladius

Alton, NH

#19 Dec 8, 2009
gladius wrote:
<quoted text>
depends on the head and flow available, etc.
I have in possession cost estimates for a 20 kW Pelton wheel installation in a very small brook (almost a trickle) that would not top $40,000. A site with similar head and greater sustained flow would have a lower per KW installed cost.
The point being missed here is that small dams that would not have easily fallen under state control have been demolished under the bogus premise of "re-wilding" a stream.
Plain stupid U.N. environmentalist crap.
I near forgot to mention that you all get the option every year to designate a supplier.

What is wrong with establishing co-ops and designating them as your supplier? Each co-op would need to have capacity sufficient to supply all those who had signed on. There would be penalties for not meeting the demand use of the subscribers.

Would it not be nice to be a shareholder in the co-op that you buy power from? Even with the wheeling charges rates could be substantially lower than those of NationalGrid etc.
gladius

Alton, NH

#20 Dec 8, 2009
Lowell55 wrote:
You probably don't even realize we have a Hyro Plant in Lowell. No not the Boot Mills, there is a plant off of Lawrence Street on the Concord. Has been there since 1990. Also one in Methuen Center on the Spicket for 25 years. Owner had to jump through hopes to get licensed so the little fishes wouldn't get hurt. We hear John Kerry rail against global warming but fought wind turbines off of the cape so he could sail the "Scatamoush" without obstacles and his view wouldn't hindred on the Vineyard. Ah the beautiful people, got to love the hypocrites!!!!
Holyoke has a three level canal system fed by the Connecticut R. Power is generated by several hydroturbines on each level that produce a combined output of sometimes over 1 Megawatt on EACH level, depending on river flow.

I can name several sites in my little area with the potential of at least 50 kW, up to several hundred kW, all going untapped to date due to bureaucratic nonsense.

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