North St. Paul pins hopes on building...

North St. Paul pins hopes on building fiber optic network as bo...

There are 1754 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Jan 9, 2009, titled North St. Paul pins hopes on building fiber optic network as bo.... In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

North St. Paul leaders are dreaming of a time when every home in the Ramsey County suburb is wired for a high-tech future.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

Seems To Me

Eden Prairie, MN

#22 Jan 16, 2009
All this digital technology is just a way to charge more money. The only "deal" was DtoA converter for my analogue TV. But digital has a huge flaw innate in its own technology. It is NOT a pure waveform. Since it's really a connect-the-dots waveform, it you are off just the teeniest bit with your TV antenna or a teensy bit off tracking a DVD, you have annoying troubles.

They could have simply increased analogue resolution.

And it my analogue TV goes dead, I don't care. I have the newspaper and radio for bad news. No use seeing bad news in motion.

And I have a HUGE supply of movie videotapes.
Heather

Saint Paul, MN

#23 Jan 16, 2009
The reason posters out here are so aggresive is because they feel the city of NSP is so abusive of it's power over it residents. And the voters keep voting for the same old council and Mayor, of course in an election structured to elect Kuehn with 10% of the vote.

As far as folding with Maplewood, in case you are not aware Maplewood residents south of Larpenter Ave are currently moving to separate from Maplewood and create a new town called Innovation.

Maplewood is much like NSP, going in a bad direction with HIGH taxes. Oakdale would be a better choice to combine with.

IMHO the NSP elected and salaried people are milking NSP residents and should there is really no need for the HIGH cost of the management team in NSP when their decisions have lead to the highest taxes in the metro.

Wally and Scott should be working in the private sector where their development activities would fit.

Unclefogey wrote:
Comment: It is too bad that a couple of posters to this site have decided to use it to foster their own personal vendettas. And in such a gross manner. I would have hoped this could have been an intelligent conversation about putting a stop to this out of control spending by NSP.
The reference I made to the 350 chosen individuals voting in the election was to emphasize that, at this point, they are the only residents of NSP who know about the election and have a dog in the fight because it was their recommendation that the fiber network project go forward. The remainder of us who know about it and hopefully will vote NO, just happened to stumble on to info about the project.
I am trying to figure out just who is the villan in this project and just what are the city fathers are up to by the recent bareing of their souls on the extra money being made by the city's "enterprise activities".
I found it amazing that an article was included in the city newsletter sent w/the electric bill about the extra $9.00 a month the city electric costs a NSP resident in comparison to Xcel. Doublely amazing, since I once had a conversation with the newsletter editor where he stated he would never include any controversial article, especially one on proposed taxes or fees in the newsletter.
Then there was Wally's admission at the last council meeting that there was a $400,000 slush fund built up by accident due to the wonderful job the citizens were doing by recycling and not dumping things into the trash. What a wonderful way to explain an overcharge.
I also remember a council meeting, one of the last attended by Bill Sandberg, where Sandberg turned to Wally and said what a great thing it was that the city had an electric utility because the city could do many things that they couldn't do without it. Wally, to my surprise, didn't even ackknowledge the mayor's statement. He just dropped his head.
Are they turning over a new leaf now that Sandberg is gone and coming clean as to what this city actually costs the citizens?
To Mary, I would rather we become part of Maplewood because it is also in Ramsey Cty. and it surrounds NSP on three sides. The first thing that has to go is the police dept. Sixteen (16) officers for a 2.9 Sq. mile city cannot be sustained by 11,400 and dropping population. Fold it into Maplewood and contract for its services.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#24 Jan 16, 2009
Unclefogey wrote:
Comment: It is too bad that a couple of posters to this site have decided to use it to foster their own personal vendettas. And in such a gross manner. I would have hoped this could have been an intelligent conversation about putting a stop to this out of control spending by NSP.
The reference I made to the 350 chosen individuals voting in the election was to emphasize that, at this point, they are the only residents of NSP who know about the election and have a dog in the fight because it was their recommendation that the fiber network project go forward. The remainder of us who know about it and hopefully will vote NO, just happened to stumble on to info about the project.
I am trying to figure out just who is the villan in this project and just what are the city fathers are up to by the recent bareing of their souls on the extra money being made by the city's "enterprise activities".
I found it amazing that an article was included in the city newsletter sent w/the electric bill about the extra $9.00 a month the city electric costs a NSP resident in comparison to Xcel. Doublely amazing, since I once had a conversation with the newsletter editor where he stated he would never include any controversial article, especially one on proposed taxes or fees in the newsletter.
Then there was Wally's admission at the last council meeting that there was a $400,000 slush fund built up by accident due to the wonderful job the citizens were doing by recycling and not dumping things into the trash. What a wonderful way to explain an overcharge.
I also remember a council meeting, one of the last attended by Bill Sandberg, where Sandberg turned to Wally and said what a great thing it was that the city had an electric utility because the city could do many things that they couldn't do without it. Wally, to my surprise, didn't even ackknowledge the mayor's statement. He just dropped his head.
Are they turning over a new leaf now that Sandberg is gone and coming clean as to what this city actually costs the citizens?
To Mary, I would rather we become part of Maplewood because it is also in Ramsey Cty. and it surrounds NSP on three sides. The first thing that has to go is the police dept. Sixteen (16) officers for a 2.9 Sq. mile city cannot be sustained by 11,400 and dropping population. Fold it into Maplewood and contract for its services.
Your Post has been sent up to main story on the following link- North Saint Paul Editor, thank you.

Ignore the posters who are foul mouthed. It is very common. They are called trolls often times the City itself posts. Others are just a pain, it's an open forum. You can report if you wish by 'send us your feed back'
http://www.topix.com/city/north-st-paul-mn

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#25 Jan 16, 2009
your post has been sent up to Editors story panel.
thanks for your input and concerns.

Ignore the bad posters-Trolls

Very common.

http://www.topix.com/city/north-st-paul-mn
Unclefogey

AOL

#26 Jan 16, 2009
For those of you who are readers/posters on this particular thread and are residents of the beautiful city of North Saint Paul, you have received your monthly love note from the city in the form of your utility bill with included newsletter.

Since it is the first bill of the new year, the usual newsletter article titled "2009 Utility Rate Changes" appears. In bold letters, the first paragraph states: "There is no change in our Electric Consumption Rates". Now isn't that wonderful that the city is thinking of its residents in these hard times? B as in B., S as in S., B.S. They fail to tell you that they have a bill line item that states "Power Adjustment", which continues to rise monthly.

The increases that really put me over the edge are the increases in garbage pickup, 5%; Scott Duddeck bulk pickup, 10%; and recycling, 2%. THIS IS AFTER IT WAS STATED THAT THE GARBAGE, ET., AL. SERVICE HAD PRODUCED A $400,000 SLUSH FUND, OF WHICH $179,000 WAS USED TO OFFSET THE REDUCTION IN LGA.

WHERE IS MY REBATE FOR THE $400,000 OVERCHARGE? WHERE IS MY REDUCTION IN THIS YEAR'S GARBAGE BILL BECAUSE OF THE OVERCHARGES?

If this fiber network goes through, next year there will be an item which will cover the increases for internet, cable TV and phone.

Also, please note the slick brochure on PolarNet. Under the benefits of a fiber network is claimed an increase in home values. Wonderful!!! I wonder what the decrease in home values will be if the PolarNet goes bankrupt and your home is in a city that also is bankrupt?

Please note the dates of the "forums" to be held in the Community Center (white elephant) on PolarNet. There should be at least a couple of people attending, if the usual turnout happens.

Heather

Long Lake, MN

#27 Jan 16, 2009
Agree 100%.

Once again they are having separate election for the fibre question costing how much. Timing of the election is important to maxmize the vote of supporters of the project.

What is the risk if ROI isn't what they think relative to their poll of residents which I didn't get to participate in. How difficult would it have been to poll ALL residents? Again the poll is like NSP elections they structure the poll toward the people they want a response from.

Who eats the $6,000 cost per household if Polarnet falls on its face?

Taxes and NSP charges keep shyrocketing when lots of us are loosing their jobs.

==========
Unclefogey wrote:
For those of you who are readers/posters on this particular thread and are residents of the beautiful city of North Saint Paul, you have received your monthly love note from the city in the form of your utility bill with included newsletter.
Since it is the first bill of the new year, the usual newsletter article titled "2009 Utility Rate Changes" appears. In bold letters, the first paragraph states: "There is no change in our Electric Consumption Rates". Now isn't that wonderful that the city is thinking of its residents in these hard times? B as in B., S as in S., B.S. They fail to tell you that they have a bill line item that states "Power Adjustment", which continues to rise monthly.
The increases that really put me over the edge are the increases in garbage pickup, 5%; Scott Duddeck bulk pickup, 10%; and recycling, 2%. THIS IS AFTER IT WAS STATED THAT THE GARBAGE, ET., AL. SERVICE HAD PRODUCED A $400,000 SLUSH FUND, OF WHICH $179,000 WAS USED TO OFFSET THE REDUCTION IN LGA.
WHERE IS MY REBATE FOR THE $400,000 OVERCHARGE? WHERE IS MY REDUCTION IN THIS YEAR'S GARBAGE BILL BECAUSE OF THE OVERCHARGES?
If this fiber network goes through, next year there will be an item which will cover the increases for internet, cable TV and phone.
Also, please note the slick brochure on PolarNet. Under the benefits of a fiber network is claimed an increase in home values. Wonderful!!! I wonder what the decrease in home values will be if the PolarNet goes bankrupt and your home is in a city that also is bankrupt?
Please note the dates of the "forums" to be held in the Community Center (white elephant) on PolarNet. There should be at least a couple of people attending, if the usual turnout happens.
Seems To Me

Eden Prairie, MN

#28 Jan 16, 2009
Rather interesting topic.
Clint

Minneapolis, MN

#29 Jan 18, 2009
NSP is doing this to create a new slush fund like the bulk item pickup where they charge for the service if you use it or not.

Also the electric utility overcharges $700,000+ a year for electricity and openly talked about in council meetings.

It NEVER ends.
Wild Bill

Eden Prairie, MN

#30 Jan 18, 2009
Add fiber optic for what? If it's for cable, new technology won't improve the horseshit TV shows. Just another way to try to get people's hard-earned money. Fugem.
the guy up the street

Saint Paul, MN

#31 Jan 22, 2009
I'm voting for it. The techno geeks and gen X kids will eat it up. Those are the people that will be buying my house someday. since no other community has it, we will be viewed as the place to live in thier eyes.

With all the houses out there for sale, we need a way to look good. I view this as a cheap way to increase the value of my house.
Fredrick

Long Lake, MN

#32 Jan 22, 2009
This is NOT a cheap way to increase the value of your house. One reason why NSP houses are not selling is because taxes are so high.

Ask anyone and they will tell you.

If Polarnet isn't used by as many residents as NSP thinks the residents will see another tax increase because the $18,500,000 bond WILL have to be paid by the NSP residents. The amount will be about $6,000 per household.

If you read the Lillie newspaper you will have a better understanding of the risk of this project.
the guy up the street wrote:
I'm voting for it. The techno geeks and gen X kids will eat it up. Those are the people that will be buying my house someday. since no other community has it, we will be viewed as the place to live in thier eyes.
With all the houses out there for sale, we need a way to look good. I view this as a cheap way to increase the value of my house.
Clint

Saint Paul, MN

#33 Jan 23, 2009
I suggest all NSP residents pick up a copy of the Lillie newspaper. Note the comment by the an attorney that if the fibre project fails the residents WILL pay for the failure.

Note: Wally lives in Edina so he won't have to pay for HIS mistake!

Seems to me the city manager should have to live in NSP.
Mary

Saint Paul, MN

#34 Jan 23, 2009
My concern regarding Polarnet is that the city of North Saint Paul WILL have access to control of users internet activity.

The city WILL be able to monitor what WEB sites I access and they would be able to keep track of my activities.

Not something I want government to be able to do without a search warrent with probable cause.
is that you al

Saint Paul, MN

#35 Jan 23, 2009
Mary wrote:
My concern regarding Polarnet is that the city of North Saint Paul WILL have access to control of users internet activity.
The city WILL be able to monitor what WEB sites I access and they would be able to keep track of my activities.
Not something I want government to be able to do without a search warrent with probable cause.
???????
is that you al

Saint Paul, MN

#36 Jan 23, 2009
just look to st louis park and how their city wide wifi project went....went over like a wet fart in January....

this is a shitty idea. Especially in today's economy.
Mary

Saint Paul, MN

#37 Jan 23, 2009
Is that you Wally???

This isn't St Louis Park, North Saint Paul average income is probably 25% of that in St Louis Park.

And you compare WIFI to Fibre, go back to grade school, PLEASE!!!

==========
is that you al wrote:
just look to st louis park and how their city wide wifi project went....went over like a wet fart in January....
this is a **** idea. Especially in today's economy.
Unclefogey

AOL

#38 Jan 23, 2009
Mary, don't give the mayor and council any ideas. I doubt very much that Polarnet was set up to spy on NSP residents. But given the inclination of said council, mayor and city administrator to set up "enterprise activities" they might now be contacting the National Security Administration in an attempt to sell the information that you believe they might be collecting. And since NSP will be operating a telephone exchange.....

The "information forums" set up for January 27 and February 11 appear to be one way streets of information from the "dedicated citizen volunteers" and the company chosen to run Polarnet (no conflict of interest here) of how Polarnet will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Based on the January 20th NSP council meeting contest between the council members and the mayor (He won in my humble opinion) of who could shout the loudest that they WOULD NOT be attending the forums, there will be NO opportunity to question any NSP official about just what they think they are doing in any public forum prior to the election. They have spoken, and that is the end of it.

Remember, even by the NSP financial plan which assumes the rosiest of scenerios, Polarnet will lose $6.9 million dollars through 2015. Whose dollars are these? I will give you one guess.

In case it wasn't clear, the St. Louis Park wifi project was a total bust. Therefore, the residents of that city will have an easier time of it paying for the mess that was left for them, if their average income is that much greater than NSP.
Clint

Long Lake, MN

#40 Jan 23, 2009
So there will be some residents at the Polarnet open house. No elected or staff people will be there, sorry wally won't want to work late and get home to Edina late with his taxpayer provided SUV on taxpayer gasoline.

Who does wally know?
Annie

Saint Paul, MN

#41 Jan 24, 2009
Excerpts from article-Ramsey County Review
'Along with the positive reactions, a few people expressed reservations about the proposed citywide fiber-optic network as well. Voters will be asked to approve an $18.5 million bond for the high-tech project in a Feb. 24 referendum.

Wysopal said, according to the business model, Polarnet would not be operating on a profit until its fifth year. He explained by that time, Polarnet would have a cash flow and the city would be able to pay off the bonds with that revenue.
If Polarnet fell well short of profit projections, property taxes could be raised.

"If we don't reach those take rates after the fifth year, the city property-tax payers would be at risk," he said. That would be a last resort (raising property taxes to pay for the service)."

"We (Comcast) were given no opportunity to have this discussion with the council (members) before they put this in front of the public," he told Wysopal. "There's a lot of questions out there that haven't been answered, because they haven't actually been discussed."

"As far as the City Council making decisions about some of these things, I think it's a little too much to ask of any group to have every detail figured out. I think there's some things you have to work through as you move forward."

The city will be holding two open house forums at the community center on Jan. 27 and Feb. 11 at 6:30 p.m. for residents to learn more about fiber optic technology. Residents will be their ballots on the $18.5 million referendum Feb 24 at four polling locations around the city.

So let's see...they haven't really thought the whole thing through, it's a gamble they are willing to take at taxpayers expense. For those of you who are not aware, they already laid fiber optics down to serve the High School when Hwy 36 was torn up under the assumption we would gobble up their fiber optics proposal. If you don't get out and vote NO on February 24th, higher taxes are just down the road. And stay on top of it, because Wally will continue to sneak this thing in under the radar.
Annie

Saint Paul, MN

#42 Jan 24, 2009
"The backbone for the system is already in place, and it provides municipal institutional service," he said. "It connects all of our lift stations, our water wells, and our electric wells. All those systems are connected by fiber optics. The schools are (also) connected."

Wysopal and Kuehn asserted the system could jump-start the North St. Paul business community.

"There's probably no better time to do it, because if you look at the timing of this effort and when the economy might come back to whatever level it's going to be, this is gonna help the economy come back because it's going to tell that business that 'Hey, I can open up a business in North St. Paul because it has something that no other community is going to offer,'" Wysopal said.
Wysopal added that "Polarnet" would also allow North St. Paul to set up its own local "intranet," and officials could quickly put out citywide messages, such as crime watches, tornado alerts and Amber Alerts.

Sometimes you read something and you still can't believe what it says. This is one of those cases. We do not need the city to alert of us Tornadoe or Amber alerts. Good lord, we already have that free of charge. AND no one is going to be flocking to the downtown area because of fiber optics. Don't buy into it folks, it's only more money out of our pockets and more control over us by the city.

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