Palm Beach County commissioner wants ...

Palm Beach County commissioner wants retired police officers to...

There are 178 comments on the South Florida Sun-Sentinel story from Mar 4, 2008, titled Palm Beach County commissioner wants retired police officers to.... In it, South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that:

Before Monday's shooting rampage at a Wendy's restaurant in suburban West Palm Beach, County Commissioner Bob Kanjian began inquiring into why more retired police officers from out of state aren't carrying ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

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“Some People Just Don't Get It”

Since: Mar 07

Boca Raton

#191 Mar 6, 2008
GAD wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm far from naive and you're entitled to your opinion as am I! However, I'm curious as to how many times you've actually needed your gun. I would bet the number is zero. As for the number of concealed weapon permit owners, I believe you stated there were 3 for every 1 cop...why do we ALMOST NEVER hear how they are stopping crime? And if there are so many CWP holders, and if the thought of the citizenry carrying guns scares criminals, then why is crime so bad? Based on your logic there would be almost no crime. But it's quite the opposite, which means your logic is very flawed.
Crime disgust me as much as it does you. I feel the same way about the tragedy at Boca Town Center. But we live in an area (South Florida) with many millions of people and many of those people are animals. This type of thing is bound to happen no matter if everyone was armed. If the mother (forgot her name) of the Boca Town Center crime had a gun, she'd still be dead.
And lastly, my point was in my earlier post - eliminate guns and eliminate gunshot wounds. I didn't say eliminate guns from good people and let the criminals keep guns, which is somehow how you took my point. I know it's wishful thinking to do that, but it takes effort, and all people like you want to do is hold onto your gun like you're holding your life. But I ask again, how many times has your gun saved your life or even prevented a crime? Better yet - tell me somebody you know that has a gun that he/she used to prevent a crime??? I mean, with so many people with CWPs out there that you cited, I'm sure you can start naming quite a bit of incidences? And if you can't, then you gotta ask yourself....what good is your gun doing you????
.

http://www.topix.com/content/trb/2007/06/arme...

If it only saves one life you got to ask yourself....what good would not having a gun do you????

Don't carry, fine, just stay out of my business as it is the "law of the land".
Paul

Gordonsville, TN

#192 Mar 6, 2008
Why, when these people have to reload, don't some of the young men get him down and beat the hell out of him. Why wait for him to reload?

Since: Aug 07

Hollywood

#193 Mar 6, 2008
UseLogic wrote:
Your comprehension is lacking my friend. " where a citizen or a cop prevented a shooting - or stopped a shooter. " Post one.
<quoted text>
http://www.local10.com/news/13585335/detail.h...

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/12/col...

There are more but this is current event material and to be honset is enough to make the point. Im not going to argue with you. Rant on Sheeple.
CCW

Camp Hill, PA

#195 Mar 6, 2008
I have a CCW. I have it on my persons right now.

I grew up against guns. I am a registered Dem. My parents are as liberal as you get.

That being said... Criminals will do criminal things. Drugs are illegal. Killing is illegal. Stealing is illegal. Yet criminals get high, get guns and steal and rob. Our laws say you cant, yet they do. Now I have a gun... If a criminal comes to me, I can defend myself. I used to believe the cops were going to save me but they are not everywhere. In NO after the hurricanes, there was anarchy. ONLY YOU CAN SAVE YOURSELF...

My parents who are die hard anti gun, see my point of view. I have a wife... we will soon have a baby. I believe in what if's...

What if I was robbed or attacked... What if my wife was...
What if she was killed...
What if our child was attacked and killed and I had 0 power to protect it...

I dont think I could live with myself for not doing everything in my power to save my family....

Could you???
CCW

Camp Hill, PA

#196 Mar 6, 2008
Poor people... When a CCW person stops a crime, it never makes it to the news...

Man stops a robber...

or Sheep get slaughtered when the wolf shows up...

Which ones do you think will get 7 on your side?

“Some People Just Don't Get It”

Since: Mar 07

Boca Raton

#197 Mar 6, 2008
GAD wrote:
<quoted text>
First, I'm not in YOUR business.The fact that you have ONLY ONE incident to cite shows that it's very uncommon that a gun toter stops crimes and saves lives.
An earlier poster stated that there are more than 500k concealed weapons permit holders in Florida. If there are that many, and these people can save lives and stop crime, then why do you have ONLY ONE incident to cite? I mean, surely with those numbers and the rampant crime over the years, I would think you'd have plenty of incidents to cite to support your argument. But you have one, AND ONLY ONE!
Now ask yourself this - if there were true gun laws where it wasn't so easy for guns to be purchased, and for guns to be easily sold without consequences to those who are selling guns without a license, then where would our society be in terms of gun-involved crimes? I would argue that making it EXTREMELY HARD to get guns, and to regulate the exchange of guns (ie: those who have them can't just sell them whenever they feel like it)...this would definitely do our society a world of good.
First, you most certainly are in my business as under our current laws I have the "right to choose" if I want to carry or not given the fact that I have a permit. It is the law of the land and it is a “choice” that I am free to make and it is none of your concern or business what I do in this regards.

In my world “one life” is all it takes for me. One example or a hundred the point is a life was saved. If you don't see that, too bad. Something you really miss, I don’t carry, nor do many others, to prevent crimes from occurring so your question is thus moronic at best. I carry simply to give myself a ,slim, chance to defend myself, my loved ones, and possibly others, and then get the heck out while calling 911. If I can avoiod Action is faster than reaction. I am not , nor are other permit holders, want to be cops on patrol looking for trouble and hoping to be involved. We simply have made the "choice" to defend.

Regulation? It seems that we need more enforcement as we have plenty of regulation but I’ll listen to what is said. Remember, criminal commit crimes because they are criminal and don’t really care about your regulations, this is reality. You would be hard pressed to show an example where regulations definitely solved any guns violence problems. You stated “(ie: those who have them can't just sell them whenever they feel like it)...”this would definitely do our society a world of good.”. You are referring to “person to person” sales and you are correct. Unfortunately criminals will not obey that law, they are criminals. I did not cause all these problems but I am living in the middle of it all and responding accordingly. I am complying with all laws.

You are very idealistic where I am realistic.

“Some People Just Don't Get It”

Since: Mar 07

Boca Raton

#198 Mar 6, 2008
Examples of Citizens Defending themselves:
1) Hygens Labidou was operating his roofing truck when two men began yelling about his driving. According to police, the men, who were white, got out of their vehicle and yelled racial slurs while approaching Labidou, who is black. The men pounded on the truck and tried to yank Labidou out through the door. One of them was armed with a knife.“[Expletive], get out of the truck!” they screamed. But Labidou is a concealed-carry permit holder. In fear of his life, he drew a handgun and shot both men twice. One suspect died and the other went to jail. Labidou was not injured.(Miami Herald, Miami, FL, 12/19/07)

2)Rob Pierce, Jr. was walking to dinner when two men, one a self-proclaimed Crips gang member and the other wielding a handgun, accosted him. With a gun to his back, Pierce was dragged across the street to a dimly lit area and told he was about to be killed.“It was like hell,” he explained. Pierce, a concealed-carry permit holder, drew a .357 revolver and shot one of the suspects, causing both suspects to flee. They were later apprehended. Northampton County, Pa., District Attorney John Morganelli said he hoped the incident would teach “these young thugs” that the good guys might be armed.“We don’t expect our citizens to wait and get shot. As long as I’m district attorney here, I’m probably going to err on the side of the citizen,” Morganelli said, adding he supports concealed-carry laws.(The Morning Call, Allentown, PA, 12/06/07)

3)His new home recently completed, Ken Foshee sat on the back deck with his wife and 17-year-old grandson. The last thing he expected was an attack by armed assailants. Police say the suspects demanded money and forced Foshee and his wife inside the home. One of the men shot Foshee in the hand. Meanwhile, the grandson ran next door and alerted his uncle, Ronnie Foshee, to the situation. Ronnie grabbed a gun and ran to the scene. Finding a man holding a knife to his mother’s throat, he fired a shot and the suspect fled. The other suspect was in the bedroom, severely beating Ken Foshee. Ronnie shot his father’s assailant, killing him.(The Macon Telegraph, Macon, GA,12/20/07)
4)A teenager and several other juveniles were enjoying one another’s company when three men knocked on the door. Police say the men asked about buying shoes, which didn’t arouse suspicion because the teen’s parents are street vendors. That changed when the men forced their way inside and began burglarizing the residence. Apparently underestimated, the teen grabbed a .410-bore shotgun and shot one of the intruders. The men fled, but the injured suspect collapsed and died. A handgun was found in his pocket.(The Vicksburg Post, Vicksburg, MS, 12/31/07)
GAD

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#199 Mar 6, 2008
Fair Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I'm not in YOUR business. Whatever the Issue in America is MY issue just as much as yours. You mentioned one life saved is good enough for you, but you DID NOT address the many many lives lost because of guns. For example, I cited children who lose their lives because gun idiots like you have a need to possess a gun because you're really a gutless pu&&y. If you don't have true balls and need to pull a gun on people, then I hope you feel better about yourself. But people die because other people use guns on them. PERIOD! Eliminate the guns from everybody except police and military and you eliminate gun crimes.

You'll say it's impossible to eliminate guns from society and I agree. But the reason is that there are so many uneducated, uninformed, ignorant a&&holes like you out there who have their hand wrapped around their guns so tight as if the gun IS their life. You people cry like bitches when your guns are threatened.

You mentioned regulations. What we have is not true regulation over guns. If I can go into a gun shop and buy a gun and get it three days later, and then sell it a year from now only to have the person I sell it to commit murder....that's not regulation. But, if I buy the gun and the law states that if I sell that gun, or give it away, then I am subject to be charged with a first-degree felony...that's a start. You see, that's the type of regulation that we need. Not words. Action.

But it will never happen because for men (and I use the term loosely) like you who need their gun to feel like a man, you people will never allow something like this to happen. No matter the number of people it saves. Hey, you still have that one Subway incident to support your stupid-ass argument.

“Some People Just Don't Get It”

Since: Mar 07

Boca Raton

#200 Mar 6, 2008
GAD wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, you still have that one Subway incident to support your stupid-ass argument.
Talk about stupid-ass. You have not even made one credible arguement other than personal attacks. Look above you moron. I think children who die from accidental poisoning or guns is tragic as does most sane people, even you. I asked you to site a credible definitive source showing that guns regulations prevents gun violence and you respond with your childish insults what a loser. Do what you want just stay out of my business becuase it is the "law of the land" and it is my "choice". I'm done with you.
PGFlorida

Titusville, FL

#201 Mar 7, 2008
CAT wrote:
<quoted text>
You have it right. Especially in this case. The man emptied a 20 round clip in less than a minute then shot himself. Had people in the restaurant had guns, the can be NO QUESTION that more people would have been shot, and most probably AFTER he killed himself. I DO NOT SUPPORT STRICT GUN CONTROL. I own a gun, but do not carry it. I got the macho need of carrying a gun sufficed in the Marines. But why does John Q Public need a semi automatic with a 20 round clip?
Also, these retired Police---many with stress related disabilities, and MANY MANY MANY over 75 years old, etc, etc,'encouraged' to carry guns, they will be acting under the COLOR OF THE LAW and the Cities or State WILL rightfully be held responsible. We have too many people too old to drive cars killing people. Now we want to give them guns?
Because the government is not supposed to hold a monopoly on power.

Because when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Because the police have no duty to protect you.

Because the Second Amendment is not about hunting or "sporting purposes".
Fragrante Delicto

AOL

#202 Mar 7, 2008
We should arm all divorcees. Their pissed off enough already and would not take any crap from anyone.

Heck, why not put a bounty on perps. Certanly would lower the crime rate significantly.
Gary Leggiere

Hollywood, FL

#203 Mar 7, 2008
The sooner the better!
Yea BiGgiEs

Pompano Beach, FL

#204 Mar 8, 2008
CCW wrote:
I have a CCW. I have it on my persons right now.
I grew up against guns. I am a registered Dem. My parents are as liberal as you get.
That being said... Criminals will do criminal things. Drugs are illegal. Killing is illegal. Stealing is illegal. Yet criminals get high, get guns and steal and rob. Our laws say you cant, yet they do. Now I have a gun... If a criminal comes to me, I can defend myself. I used to believe the cops were going to save me but they are not everywhere. In NO after the hurricanes, there was anarchy. ONLY YOU CAN SAVE YOURSELF...
My parents who are die hard anti gun, see my point of view. I have a wife... we will soon have a baby. I believe in what if's...
What if I was robbed or attacked... What if my wife was...
What if she was killed...
What if our child was attacked and killed and I had 0 power to protect it...
I dont think I could live with myself for not doing everything in my power to save my family....
Could you???
AMEN TO YOU1. Times have changed. You obviously acknowledge these changes and have taken the appropriate actions to adjust and modify bahaviors and actions accordingly. Unfortunately most people are sheep. They need direction and supervision.
CAUTHON

Antrim, NH

#205 Mar 8, 2008
Some years ago the citizens of Florida were among the first to have the good sense to pass a law to enable them to carry concealed weapons to protect themselves against criminals. Shortly, somebody published a paper showing that in Jacksonville and two other cities, in Florida or other states with recently passed concealed carry laws, crime failed to decrease. I would be ashamed to put my name on such a paper, selecting just a few cities where the data fit what I wanted to prove, but apparently some people have no shame. Even if they had any point at all, let’s remember that before Florida’s law was passed, the debate was not about whether crime would decrease uniformly and monotonically in every precinct in the state; it was about whether blood would run in the streets for 200 miles as deep as the horses’ bridles, or only up to the stirrups.

Self defense is justified on at least three levels. Common sense tells us that, as Thomas Jefferson said, it is easier to rob or kill a person if the intended victim is unarmed; anecdotal evidence shows that even with all the restrictions that we now have, preventing us from being armed, many people do manage to have a gun when they need it and save themselves from criminal violence; and the liberal academics who write papers on weapons, crime and violence in the USA have found that gun control laws do not reduce that violence. We can see the extreme level of emotional commitment that some people have for gun control when they will survey the scene of blood, death and carnage after one of those multiple murders and say,“It’s certainly a good thing none of those people, when they were alive, had a gun; if they had been armed, someone might have got hurt.”

And, if it is dangerous for a retired police officer to be armed and wearing civilian clothing, then it must also be dangerous for an active duty detective to be armed and wearing civilian clothing.

I’m a little surprised to see the police complaining about letting their retired colleagues carry guns for their own and our own defense, as they did when they were full time public servants. It’s true that the police have some protection against gun control laws, since it is only the most extreme fanatics who want to deprive our active duty police of their weapons, and it is a lot easier to ignore the dangers of gun control laws if you can be sure that it will be only the other people’s guns that will be banned; but usually the police, or at least the rank and file police that are out here among the rest of us, can see that they can’t be everywhere all the time. It is good to have some other people equipped for defense when no police are here.
CAUTHON

Antrim, NH

#206 Mar 8, 2008
"Unfortunately most people are sheep. They need direction and supervision."

Our government, especially our public schools, as well as lots of our fellow humans outside of government, have worked like H (stands for Halifax, I suppose, as Mark Twain said) for at least a couple of generations to tell us that we are sheep and can't do anything for ourselves, and make us behave that way, so it's no wonder that they have had some success. We are just lucky that we have the Teddy Kennedys and Chuck Schumers and Dianne Feinsteins of the country working hard in Washington to take care of us; I don't know what we would do without all those people who are so much smarter than we are:-) Gun control is just one outstanding example of government trying to run everything from headquarters and not let the rest of us do anything; it just happens that we have enough data, and people who have had the honesty to publish what the facts showed them, to be able to see the truth about this one.
Fragrante Delicto

AOL

#207 Mar 9, 2008
I once had detained a guy who had ripped off money at a restaurant across the street from the Galeria Mall. It took FLPD 40 minutes to show up after the phone call. I could not believe it!!
Debi C

Boca Raton, FL

#208 Jul 30, 2008
I am looking to buy a 9 mm Glock semi auto.. I have a small piatol now.. it is not big enough for self defense.. I have a permit to carry a concelled weapom.. I was assualted in NY. from a parolee from Dannemora prison..and he also threw a 12 yr old over a bridge,,.. I am a nurse.. I am very responsible and believe we need to protect ourselves.. this parolee said to me:"Every woman gets what she deservers, and you are going to get yours now.... I had no clue @ this person I am a nurseI was 23 yo out on a birthday celebration.I had a huge engagement ring but he wasn't interested in that.. he wanted to hurt me and he did..I want a Glock.. where can I get one.. resonable price, of course..
Gary

Port Charlotte, FL

#209 Apr 27, 2012
As to all the comments here on this issue most are people talking out thier butt. First I am a retired NY cop. I carry under HR-218 in order to protect myself and my family. I would only get involved in a situation like that if I had to. Once I had to use my weapon to protect myself or my family it would be back in my holster and my shield would be in my hand for responding officers to see. It would be held very high for everyone to see. Both my hands would be visable. I would not want to be in situation like that because no one would protect me in a civil action. I dont carry a CCW card because I dont have to. That is why HR-218 is in effect. Oh, also I am not 75 years old. Most of us dont live to that age because of the stress of the past job and most of us are not dealing with mental issues as suggested. I did 30 years on the job and I dont ask anything of anyone because in today society no one cares that I was never home on holidays, missed family parties,called out in the middle of the night, lots of family weddings missed and many more that no one would care about anyway. As for my pension I earned every bit of it. Just ask my doctor and my phyical therapist that I have to see all the time. But, I know that you dont care so why bother.

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