Palm Beach County commissioner wants retired police officers to...

There are 178 comments on the South Florida Sun-Sentinel story from Mar 4, 2008, titled Palm Beach County commissioner wants retired police officers to.... In it, South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that:

Before Monday's shooting rampage at a Wendy's restaurant in suburban West Palm Beach, County Commissioner Bob Kanjian began inquiring into why more retired police officers from out of state aren't carrying ...

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Get Real

Lake Worth, FL

#2 Mar 5, 2008
Kanjian said Tuesday. "[Monday's shootings] are a wonderful example of the kind of scenario...
A "wonderful" example? It appears the Commissioner is hampered by a limited vocabulary if he can describe anything related to this incident as "wonderful".

So we now have a Fraternal Order of Police lodge made up entirely of former New York officers that want Palm Beach County to pay for their concealed weapon permits. I say
let these retired cops get their own concealed weapon permit if they want them. These retired New York cops all have fat pensions that will let them pay for their gun permits. These guys always want something for nothing and think the world owes them a favor. They always want a handout. Let them make a contribution to the county and community they now reside in if they really want to help. I doubt that they will or this story would never have appeared.

“WELLLLLLLLL !”

Since: Dec 06

Everywhere USA

#3 Mar 5, 2008
Arm ALL of our children at an early age. Make it mandatory for each boy and girl to get an assalt rifle and a few grenades for their first birthday. By the time they are 10 years old they would be old enough for suicide bombings and mortal combat. We should also add to our money "In Guns We Trust" and "An Eye for an Eye." No wonder why we have fallen farther and faster than the Roman Empire in the eyes of the civilized world.
Mo-Ham-Head wrote:
More armed CITIZENS is a good idea. PERIOD!!!!!
Tom from Hollywood

AOL

#4 Mar 5, 2008
The standard CWP program run by this state for John Q. Public should be good enough. If retired officers need qualification to carry under 218 they should use the standards applied to state officers and have FDLE administer it with an appropriate fee schedule. The Law Enforcement Training section of the NRA could really get the job done on a national basis.
Moe

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#5 Mar 5, 2008
Why can't they apply for a concealed weapons permit like everyone else but without the use of county funds? If they are going to buy gun permits for ex-officers, then they may as well buy mine too!

What makes the "Retired (no longer sworn) Officer any more able to enforce the law than the average citizen?

Will the cities involved really want the legal liablility which will accompany the purchasing of the concealed weapons permit and condoning the retiree to carry and/or use a weapon?

Whoever thought this bright idea up should think with their head instead of their a.ss!
Former Prosecutor

United States

#6 Mar 5, 2008
Has Commissioner Kanjian lost his marbeles? More guns on the street? I'm all in favor of adequate law enforcement, but to arm more folks, even retired law enforcers, will turn this place into more of the Wild, Wild West than it already is. I confess: I own several hand guns and once was compelled to carry for self-protection. But to arm retired officers to protect the rest of us is just plain dumb. We have in this country the highest rate of guns per person, and the highest rate of death by guns. Is this what you want to see: cops and former cops shooting at each other because no one really knoews, unless wearing a uniform, who's the bad guy? shootings in social (read bars) settings where alcohol will play a big part? innocent civilians put more at risk? Wake up, people. Send Commissioner Kanjian a message: no more guns on our streets, period!
Florida Cracker

Pompano Beach, FL

#8 Mar 5, 2008
Tom from Hollywood wrote:
The standard CWP program run by this state for John Q. Public should be good enough. If retired officers need qualification to carry under 218 they should use the standards applied to state officers and have FDLE administer it with an appropriate fee schedule. The Law Enforcement Training section of the NRA could really get the job done on a national basis.
I agree. Also allow teachers and adult school employees that have the training and permits to carry (guns) on campus.
Les

Deerfield Beach, FL

#9 Mar 5, 2008
Another hand-out supported by Kanjian. We have a budget crisis, in case Kanjian is oblivious. No more taxes for nonsense like this. Stop government handouts.
hunt the FAT BAER

AOL

#10 Mar 5, 2008
this guy is a looooose cannon arsse hole,,, theres enough problems now look at SALESMAN another fracking nut case
Einstein

Dania, FL

#11 Mar 5, 2008
Bradshaw is an idiot. Look at this again, please.

"Bradshaw said the estimate will be ready in a few weeks. Though he expressed interest in the initiative, the sheriff said there are concerns associated with allowing retired officers to carry weapons. When an officer is responding to a shooting, the action is "heated and fast, and a lot of things are happening," said Bradshaw. Putting a plainclothes ex-officer with a weapon drawn into the mix, he said, can add to the confusion or worsen the outcome."

He is basically saying "Don't defend yourselves, you could confuse the issue!"

What do you expect people to do Bradshaw, just curl up, scream and die or get shot in the back running?

You know that the only reason there weren't 5-10 dead and the same number wounded is due to the reason that this guy couldn't shoot straight.

If there had been one person with a concealed weapons license with the will to stop him, he would have been down within 10 seconds of when he started shooting. What would it have changed? The Fireman wouldn't have been saved but a few less people would not have been shot.

Of course, your deppities would have harrassed the crap out of the CW license holder and the looney leftwing DA would have hounded the person with an investigation, but fewer people would have been injured and one thing might have happened.

The next idget from a third world country that was either illegally here and/or should have been deported 20 years ago might read this and not think of expressing themself in this manner. The bum should have popped himself and not done what he did.

I personally think that the truth will probably have some racial/ethnic cetnricity to it. There must have been a lot of hate in this guys heart to do what he did. Of course, the absence of a published photo leaves us questioning the overtones even moreso.

Good citizens of Palm Beach County, the cops can't protect you and don't make any guarantees. Quite the opposite, they deny this responsibility. They will come and oversee the bagging of bodies, tending of injured - after they are sure the bad guy has killed himself, because they can't risk their lives - and a thorough investigation.

I am sure the family of Lt. Vazquez will be happy to hear what you have said, Sheriff Bradshaw.
Shallow Grave

Jupiter, FL

#12 Mar 5, 2008
And that is when the cop runs in and blows you away, the man with the gun shooting people in the Wendys. Let the police keep the guns, at least you know who they are.
Common Sense wrote:
The f----king guy stoppped and reloaded in the middle of the room. By that time most concealed permit holders that had any balls would have drawn and killed him with all the shots in their magazine used. Not one shot, all of them.
Ben ther Dun Dat

AOL

#13 Mar 5, 2008
Federal Law gives retired Police Officers the right to carry concealed with their badge and ID now, Excuse me I forgot South Florida is a third world country!
Louie

United States

#14 Mar 5, 2008
To "Get Real".

You sound like a very bitter person.
I don't know what the "fat pensions" are that these LEO's are receving. Ya' know, they just might have earned it.
Are retired military personnel also getting over ? I think not.
But I'll take a guess that you've never put your bvtt out there on the line for total strangers.
I think that if someone is willing to selflessly run into the line of fire, be it firefighters or police officers or military, shows that they aren't looking for a handout.
Some people just wish to give. Some people criticize those that do.
Peace.
RIP Lt Vazquez
Wake Up Call

Ormond Beach, FL

#15 Mar 5, 2008
Former Prosecutor wrote:
Has Commissioner Kanjian lost his marbeles? More guns on the street? I'm all in favor of adequate law enforcement, but to arm more folks, even retired law enforcers, will turn this place into more of the Wild, Wild West than it already is. I confess: I own several hand guns and once was compelled to carry for self-protection. But to arm retired officers to protect the rest of us is just plain dumb. We have in this country the highest rate of guns per person, and the highest rate of death by guns. Is this what you want to see: cops and former cops shooting at each other because no one really knoews, unless wearing a uniform, who's the bad guy? shootings in social (read bars) settings where alcohol will play a big part? innocent civilians put more at risk? Wake up, people. Send Commissioner Kanjian a message: no more guns on our streets, period!
With all due respect Mr. Former Prosecutor, didn't some other alarmists cry havoc when Gov. Bush signed the self-defense law? The quote from the local editorials was "Wild West." Ok, so now, criminals and psychos still have guns and shoot people. What has changed? There is no wild west scenario playing out.

Another issue for Kanjian et al to consider. If they pay to license retired out-of-state cops, do they now link city/county liability to their actions? Have they just made Mr. Retired NY Cop a de facto city/county cop by paying to license him? I can see some blood-sucking lawyer (no offense Mr. Former Prosecutor) trying to profit by this. Retired Florida cops get their permit for free. New York cops want it, let them get it and pay for it. Also, if a retired officer uses a firearm acting in self-defense, that's one thing. If he/she acts to protect others, is he/she liable for any actions civilly? The bill needs to be state law with a built in Good Sam waiver of liability when acting in good faith. Otherwise, when a retired LEO pulls a gun out, it will be to protect only himself or his family. Joe Public better have his own gun.
THE POLICE

AOL

#17 Mar 5, 2008
I think the sheriff is correct. Upon arriving at the scene of an active shooting, so much is going on. To have another person holding a weapon could cause a problem. However, the idea is a good one and would work. Only my opinion...
A Firemans Sis

United States

#19 Mar 5, 2008
At this point, I am ready to trade in my 9mm Glock (it is really just too big for me) and get a smaller gun and a concealed weapons permit. I would not hesitate for one second to have shot the bas*turd that killed this innocent Firefighter or anyone else that is put in harms way by a psycho-idiot. I'll be at the range to practice aiming for center mass every time. We are living in a very sick world right now and something needs to be done and fast.
RIP, Mr. Vazquez. Your death has not gone unnoticed.
Not

West Palm Beach, FL

#20 Mar 5, 2008
a good idea. Once retired unless they are keeping current with target practice why are they any more worthy than a citizen who would like to carry??
Vet

Boynton Beach, FL

#22 Mar 5, 2008
What about vets that were in Military law enforcement, seems to me that it would be no diff than that of retired police officers.
CAT

Boca Raton, FL

#23 Mar 5, 2008
Wake Up Call wrote:
<quoted text>
With all due respect Mr. Former Prosecutor, didn't some other alarmists cry havoc when Gov. Bush signed the self-defense law? The quote from the local editorials was "Wild West." Ok, so now, criminals and psychos still have guns and shoot people. What has changed? There is no wild west scenario playing out.
Another issue for Kanjian et al to consider. If they pay to license retired out-of-state cops, do they now link city/county liability to their actions? Have they just made Mr. Retired NY Cop a de facto city/county cop by paying to license him? I can see some blood-sucking lawyer (no offense Mr. Former Prosecutor) trying to profit by this. Retired Florida cops get their permit for free. New York cops want it, let them get it and pay for it. Also, if a retired officer uses a firearm acting in self-defense, that's one thing. If he/she acts to protect others, is he/she liable for any actions civilly? The bill needs to be state law with a built in Good Sam waiver of liability when acting in good faith. Otherwise, when a retired LEO pulls a gun out, it will be to protect only himself or his family. Joe Public better have his own gun.
You have it right. Especially in this case. The man emptied a 20 round clip in less than a minute then shot himself. Had people in the restaurant had guns, the can be NO QUESTION that more people would have been shot, and most probably AFTER he killed himself. I DO NOT SUPPORT STRICT GUN CONTROL. I own a gun, but do not carry it. I got the macho need of carrying a gun sufficed in the Marines. But why does John Q Public need a semi automatic with a 20 round clip?

Also, these retired Police---many with stress related disabilities, and MANY MANY MANY over 75 years old, etc, etc,'encouraged' to carry guns, they will be acting under the COLOR OF THE LAW and the Cities or State WILL rightfully be held responsible. We have too many people too old to drive cars killing people. Now we want to give them guns?
Barry

Pompano Beach, FL

#24 Mar 5, 2008
There are thousands of CCW permits in the hands of law abiding Floridians. How about some ink or air time from the media when one of these people stops a crime from happening?

This kind of positive publicity re: handgun carrying citizens would go a long way to dissuade some bums from committinig a crime.
Bill Webb

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#25 Mar 5, 2008
Who's going to take responsibility when one of those officers screws up and gets sued, the County? Based on the "deep pockets" doctrine, this is a bad idea in terms of liability. It would take some convoluted lawmaking to protect the county government if they facilitate or condone retired officers carrying guns.

Bad idea.

And I'm a retired cop.

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