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Since: Nov 15

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#1 Dec 15, 2015
I decided to open this topic up to discussion since the thread about Radical Islam has turned toward a biblical and theological discussion. You are more than welcome to ask any question concerning the two religions and I will answer the best I can.
Dogboner

Marshfield, MO

#2 Dec 16, 2015
What are your thoughts on another Children's Crusade? Good idea? Bad idea?

Since: Nov 15

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#3 Dec 17, 2015
Since none of the information on the original 2 crusades in consistent then I can not give an opinion other than No it is not a good idea. You have 2 sets of crusades that failed there goal of reaching the Holy Land on a mission to expel Muslims. I would deduce that God was not in there mission as they had hoped or that leadership was not listening to God but there emotions. With that said what many do not know is the Arabs which are mainly Muslims and the Jews are brothers. Both fighting over the same right to exist in what they say is there birthright. If you take away the religion from the equation and you look at them as they are, they are family. If you add religion and you add in the true Muslims that follow what they are supposed to follow then you have to expel them.
common

Carbondale, IL

#4 Dec 26, 2015
care to explain the difference between radical Islam and radical Christianity? I doubt I get an honest response, and begin to wonder why I am bothering, but I will play the game and give it a shot and see if you can handle the truth or not.

Since: Nov 15

Location hidden

#5 Dec 26, 2015
Radical Islam follows the precepts laid out by Muhammad. Radical Christianity follows the precepts laid out by Jesus Christ. The difference in the two is this.......... There is not one thing that Christ did that can be considered a sin in His time on earth or in our day and age. On the other hand Muhammad in his own words and the words of those who were close with him he was a murderer, bisexual, adulterer, fornicator, ordered his men to sleep with women in front of there husbands, married a six year old girl and molested her till she was ten and then raped her, These are the same actions that are praised for in today's day and age with ISIS and all the organizations listed here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designa...

Since: Nov 15

Location hidden

#6 Dec 26, 2015
To shorten the question and answer session on this matter I will refer you to my Facebook page where I am actively in a debate with a professor of Islamic studies at a college in Pakistan and also a student of his. As you can see Neither one deny the facts I have presented to them and are refusing to stay on topic. The topic of which is finding a basis in which to debate. That basis in my opinion is the Torah, since in theory both religions are supposed to be based off of it. However Islam has strayed from it and created there own religion but still hold to it being a holy book. After 165 posts on the topic we are finally ALMOST to the foundation in which either religion can be judged.
logic

Herrin, IL

#7 Dec 26, 2015
have you determined an acrate way to determine whether either holy book was legitimately divinely inspired? Both make the claim, of course, yet I have never seen legitimate proof as to either claim. Without such proof, considering the words of either book as divine is premature. I tend to measure such in the same way I measure how I judge a person: that is, by their actions and results rather than their words. People are full of words, yet rarely do they live up to them. It is also the same with the Bible and the Q'ran, of course. They both are full of words, and others have put words to each religion that don't necessarily reflect the actual words within the books. both books are full of hate, evil, murder, incest, rape, well...the list goes on of course. And both books have inspired a very large amount of murder, evil, hate, incest, rape...well, that list goes on too, now doesn't it? So, if a person were to judge the books claim to divine inspiration through what each book has inspired, well, you can clearly see how it would leave a person with little confidence, now can't you? I don't think it is particularly good, for example, to enslave a man for 6 years, unless you coerce him into taking a bride and having a child during that 6 years, and then keeping his wife and child while he goes free, unless he begs the elders to make him a permanent slave so that he can remain with that wife and child. The bible views this as moral treatment of a slave, however. But of course, discussion of either book is premature, until their true status can be affirmed, that is, whether they are truly inspired of God or not. Do you have any evidence that either or neither is inspired of God? Evidence, of course, that follows logic, in that it does not rely upon itself as the only evidence? For instance, the national enquirer can make the claim to be true, yet independent observation can clearly show it is not. The bible can make the claim to be true, but is there independent observation to confirm this? The same with the q'ran of course.
captain prak

Carterville, IL

#8 Dec 27, 2015
The most accurate way to judge a religion is to judge the writings said to be inspired by God, the lives of those who follow the religion and what they push the follower to do, whether this pushing would bring someone closer to a loving God or farther away, to verify by historical facts the authenticity of the claims in the religion, check to see if the actions laid out in the religion are out of love and a want for the Creator to be closer to His creation, power, and faith. Since the beginning of time when God created man He has had a deep desire to have a relationship with him. In the garden of Eden God even walked with and talked with Adam. It wasn't until Adam and Eve sinned that God had to create something to make it possible for Him to look at man again in the same loving way He had before. It's like when a woman cheats on a man or vice versa, they are never looked at the same again. Through thousands of years God guided man into a more and perfect way and gave man guidelines on which to live. When man strayed and fell away God had to get away all the stumbling blocks from in front of him again and give him a clean slate to start over. Finally it just became too much and there wasn't anything we could do to get back to that original bases by ourselves. Until Christ was born and was sacrificed for our sins. That ultimate sacrifice was spoken of and prophesied about for thousands of years and was fulfilled in Christ. Most prophecies have been fulfilled already and the rest will as well. prophecies given to the men of God who wrote the bible inspired by there creator. 39 men over 1500 years given inspiration and all of which lines up and flows together being backed up by each other. You ask for evidence that follows logic? How can you look at the world and say there is no God? He is prevalent in everything. So many theories out there about how the earth was created and how we became man but none make more sense than a God that just spoke it into existence. If we were transformed from monkeys there would be a half monkey somewhere, there would be millions of them everywhere. Half fish half monkey, half dog half monkey, half cat half monkey, half fish half bear, the list goes on and on. There is no logical explanation other than 6,000 years or so ago God recreated the earth for the inhabitence of us.......... Islam claims to be a religion with roots dating back to Abraham. In order to verify this and that the religion is the same you must read the Torah. If it does not line up with the Torah it can not be verified as coming from God. The Quran is so much against the beliefs and actions acceptable in its time that they have even distanced themselves from the Torah and will not accept it but still call it holy. The same with the New Testament. In my opinion from my research it is possible that Muhammad thought he got revelations from God just as some in Christianity have claimed. There have been prophets in Christianity that have set dates to Christs coming back and when that date came they were proven to be wrong which should have told the followers that there leader was not inspired by God but they still followed and the leaders then still kept up the show. Muhammad was illiterate and was not able to read or write. He knew the bible was inspired by God and it was Holy, this is apparent in his own words. but when he found out later that his writings were nowhere near the writings of the bible and that the Quran was nothing but his own babblings he should have stopped but to save face he kept going. Maybe he had good intentions but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And instead of bowing out he has set billions on this road.
logic

Carterville, IL

#9 Dec 28, 2015
Where is your historical basis for God walking with Adam in the garden of Eden? Where is your historical evidence that Christ was born, and that he was sacrificed? I ask this question in sincerity because the Romans of the times, as well as the Jews, kept accurate records of all trials and executions, yet no record exists for Jesus whatsoever, let alone for a trial and execution. 39 men over 1500 years, but the writings do not necessarily line up, as you say. If they were writings taken from an earlier oral tradition, which is something that even Christian scholars maintain, then they certainly might have had a similar source. The accuracy is not there to prove divine intervention. If you believe the "theory" that a magic man in the sky spoke everything into existence is the most logical conclusion, then we have our answer to how your logic flows. The lack of an answer does NOT necessitate that Christianity must be correct. You understand this, yes? Evolution does not claim we were transformed from monkeys. Proof of evolution? Have you ever seen a pit bull? The species was created by man breeding it into existence. How do you suppose the pit bull has the specific traits that it does? If Muhammad was illiterate and unable to read or write, how do we know anything that his words tell us? He must have had a scribe of some sort, a scribe who may very well have altered any records beyond recognition. The same conundrum as the bible, in the end. It was written mostly by anonymous authors, and with no verification of those authors, how can we honestly claim either book were divinely inspired? The history of the bible is questionable at best. I reiterate in closing, a lack of explaination does not necessitate giving the credit to God, who has no evidence for existing.
logic

Carterville, IL

#10 Dec 29, 2015
if the world were created roughly 6000 years ago, but there are writings from ancient Sumeria dating back to 8000 bc, you realize that the writings predate the creation of the world by 4000 years?
logic

Marion, IL

#11 Dec 31, 2015
I guess you don't have an answer. It's been a few days. It's understandable.
captain prak

Carterville, IL

#12 Dec 31, 2015
I'm sorry I've been super busy and preoccupied. I will address this this evening.
captain prak

Carterville, IL

#13 Dec 31, 2015
captain prak

Carterville, IL

#14 Dec 31, 2015
I myself am not a historian and the little bit about historical facts of Jesus' virgin birth, crucifixion and raising from the dead. However here is a link.http://www.bethinking.org /jesus/ancient-evidence-for-je sus-from-non-christian-sources
logic

Marion, IL

#15 Jan 1, 2016
Part 1
Inaccuracies and inconsistencies abound in the bible. An inconsistency is when two statements are made that cannot both be true. Reference: The conflicting genealogies of Jesus (Mt. 1:1-16 vs. Lk. 3:23-38), the inconsistent stories of Judas' death (Mt. 27:5 vs. Acts 1:18), and the contradictory accounts of Paul's conversion (Acts 9:7 vs. Acts 22:9). Biblical atrocities that would be totally unacceptable by todays standards: Examples of biblical atrocities include Moses telling his soldiers to kill women and children (Num. 31:15-18), God sending two bears that killed 42 children because they were making fun of a prophet's bald head (2 Kgs. 2:23-24), and the promise that non-Christians will be sent to the eternal fires of hell (e.g., Mt. 25:41; Rev. 21:8). Other reasons the Bible is not the word of God include its false ideas about the structure of the physical world (e.g., 1 Sam. 2:8, where the earth is said to rest on pillars); its prophecies that have proved to be false (e.g., Mk. 13:24-30, where the prediction is made that the world would end within the lifetime of persons living in the first century C.E.); and its historical inaccuracies (e.g., Dan. 5:31, where one "Darius the Mede" is said to have captured Babylon in the sixth century B.C.E., whereas historians know it was Cyrus of Persia who did so).
Examples of Old Testament Contradictions
1. The contradictions start in the opening chapters of the Bible, where inconsistent creation stories are told. Genesis chapter 1 says the first man and woman were made at the same time, and after the animals. But Genesis chapter 2 gives a different order of creation: man, then the animals, and then woman.
2. Genesis chapter 1 lists six days of creation, whereas chapter 2 refers to the "day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." Genesis 1:2-3 claims that God created light and divided it from darkness on the first day; but Genesis 1:14-19 tells us the sun, moon, and stars weren't made until the fourth day.
3. Chapter 1 reports that the fruit trees were created before the man, while chapter 2 indicates they were made after him. Genesis 1:20 says the fowl were created out of the waters; Genesis 2:19 alleges they were formed from the ground.
4. Contradictions are also seen in the biblical story of a worldwide flood. According to Genesis 6:19-22, God ordered Noah to bring "of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort ... into the ark." Nevertheless, Genesis 7:2-3 relates that the Lord ordered Noah to take into the ark the clean beasts and the birds by sevens, and only the unclean beasts by twos.
5. Genesis 8:4 reports that, as the waters of the flood receded, Noah’s ark rested on the mountains of Ararat in the seventh month. The very next verse, however, says the mountaintops could not be seen until the tenth month.
6. Genesis 8:13 describes the earth as being dry on the first day of the first month. But Genesis 8:14 informs us the earth was not dry until the twenty-seventh day of the second month.
7. The Old Testament contains an interesting contradiction in the story of the census taken by King David and the resulting punishment of the Israelites. God was so angered by the census that he sent a plague that killed 70,000 men. According to II Samuel 24:1, the Lord had caused David to take the census - which makes the punishment appear even more nonsensical. But an attempt was later made, at I Chronicles 21:1, to improve God’s image by claiming that Satan incited the census.
8. Further, the Old Testament is contradictory as to whether the Lord commanded the Israelites to sacrifice animals to him. At Jeremiah 7:22, God denies he ever gave the Israelites commandments about animal sacrifices. In contrast, Exodus 29:38-42 and many other verses depict God as requiring the Israelites to offer animal sacrifices.[4]
logic

Marion, IL

#16 Jan 1, 2016
part 2
Examples of New Testament Contradictions
1. In the New Testament, there are contradictions between the genealogies of Jesus given in the first chapter of Matthew and the third chapter of Luke. Both genealogies begin with Jesus’ father, who is identified as Joseph (which is curious, given that Mary was supposedly impregnated by the Holy Ghost). But Matthew says Joseph’s father was Jacob, while Luke claims he was Heli. Matthew lists 26 generations between Jesus and King David, whereas Luke records 41. Matthew runs Jesus’ line of descent through David’s son Solomon, while Luke has it going through David’s son Nathan.
2. The story of Jesus' birth is also contradictory. Matthew 2:13-15 depicts Joseph and Mary as fleeing to Egypt with the baby Jesus immediately after the wise men from the east had brought gifts. But Luke 2:22-40 claims that after the birth of Jesus, his parents remained in Bethlehem for the time of Mary’s purification (which was 40 days, under the Mosaic law). Afterwards, they brought Jesus to Jerusalem "to present him to the Lord," and then returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke mentions no journey into Egypt or visit by wise men from the east.
3. Concerning the death of Judas, the disloyal disciple, Matthew 27:5 states he took the money he had received for betraying Jesus, threw it down in the temple, and "went and hanged himself." To the contrary, Acts 1:18 claims Judas used the money to purchase a field and "falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
4. In describing Jesus being led to his execution, John 19:17 recounts that he carried his own cross. But Mark 15:21-23 disagrees by saying a man called Simon carried the cross.
5. As for the crucifixion, Matthew 27:44 tells us Jesus was taunted by both criminals who were being crucified with him. But Luke 23:39-43 relates that only one of the criminals taunted Jesus, the other criminal rebuked the one who was doing the taunting, and Jesus told the criminal who was defending him, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
6. Regarding the last words of Jesus while on the cross, Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 quote Jesus as crying with a loud voice, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Luke 23:46 gives his final words as, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." John 19:30 alleges the last words were, "It is finished."
7. There are even contradictions in the accounts of the resurrection – the supposed event that is the very foundation of the Christian religion. Mark 16:2 states that on the day of the resurrection, certain women arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun. But John 20:1 informs us they arrived when it was yet dark. Luke 24:2 describes the tomb as open when the women arrived, whereas Matthew 28:1-2 indicates it was closed. Mark 16:5 declares that the women saw a young man at the tomb, Luke 24:4 says they saw two men, Matthew 28:2 reports they saw an angel, and John 20:11-12 claims they saw two angels.
8. Also in the resurrection stories, there are contradictions as to the identity of the women who came to the tomb,[7] whether the men or angels the women saw were inside or outside the tomb,[8] whether the men or angels were standing or sitting,[9] and whether Mary Magdalene recognized the risen Jesus when he first appeared to her.
9. As a final example of a New Testament contradiction, the conflicting accounts of Paul’s conversion can be cited. Acts 9:7 states that when Jesus called Paul to preach the gospel, the men who were with Paul heard a voice but saw no man. According to Acts 22:9, however, the men saw a light but didn't hear the voice speaking to Paul.
logic

Marion, IL

#17 Jan 1, 2016
part 3
Brief List of Historical Inaccuracies - No Evidence, Reference or Support from Other Documented Historical Sources
“Star of Bethlehem”- No record of such a celestial event outside the gospel of Matthew.
Roman census in Jesus birth story – No record of any census that matches this description.
“Massacre of the Innocents”- No mention of this event outside the gospel of Matthew.
Jesus “of” Nazareth – No record of place called Nazareth prior to Jesus.
John the Baptist – Killed early in gospels, died in 36 B.C.E according to sources.
Sermon on the Mount – No mountains in Galilee.
Death of Jesus – Accompanied by blackout of sun, raising of the dead, and earthquake in the gospels. No record of this by any other source.

Since: Nov 15

Location hidden

#18 Jan 1, 2016
Logic let me ask you this. If I take the time and answer all of the inaccuracies that you copied and pasted to a point that would satisfy any scholar would you believe the bible as it is written?
logic

Carbondale, IL

#19 Jan 2, 2016
I don't believe you can answer them to the point any scholar would believe, as you stated you are not a historian. If presented with compelling evidence, then I would reexamine my own disbelief, if that is what you are asking. However, the very first point that must be addressed for this to occur would be verification that the bible indeed was inspired by God, and proper verification would entail sources outside of the bible as well. If you can do that, then I would acknowledge it, yes.

Since: Nov 15

Location hidden

#20 Jan 2, 2016
logic wrote:
Part 1
Inaccuracies and inconsistencies abound in the bible. An inconsistency is when two statements are made that cannot both be true. Reference: The conflicting genealogies of Jesus (Mt. 1:1-16 vs. Lk. 3:23-38), the inconsistent stories of Judas' death (Mt. 27:5 vs. Acts 1:18), and the contradictory accounts of Paul's conversion (Acts 9:7 vs. Acts 22:9). Biblical atrocities that would be totally unacceptable by todays standards: Examples of biblical atrocities include Moses telling his soldiers to kill women and children (Num. 31:15-18), God sending two bears that killed 42 children because they were making fun of a prophet's bald head (2 Kgs. 2:23-24), and the promise that non-Christians will be sent to the eternal fires of hell (e.g., Mt. 25:41; Rev. 21:8). Other reasons the Bible is not the word of God include its false ideas about the structure of the physical world (e.g., 1 Sam. 2:8, where the earth is said to rest on pillars); its prophecies that have proved to be false (e.g., Mk. 13:24-30, where the prediction is made that the world would end within the lifetime of persons living in the first century C.E.); and its historical inaccuracies (e.g., Dan. 5:31, where one "Darius the Mede" is said to have captured Babylon in the sixth century B.C.E., whereas historians know it was Cyrus of Persia who did so).
.[4]
The first contradictions were not numbered so I numbered them myself. I will work on this as I have time
1. Scholars say that the geneology in Mathew is tracing the geneology of Mary through her father Heli.
2. Judas' death was by hanging. As you see in some cultures especially chinese it is customary to kill yourself by disembowelment, as they both speak of the head it is quite possible he did both to ensure he did die.
3. There is no contradiction here. John 12:28-29 explains this. They heard the sound but could not hear the words.
4. Wars in the bible were to get rid of sinfullness when it was filling the earth. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for there sin
5. If there is no punishment for sin like hell then what is the point for anyone to live a good life.
6. The pillars are figuratively speaking. Or possibly spiritually.
7. Mark 13:24-30 is still prophetic and has not come to pass yet. Just because the time has not come does not mean it is false just yet to be fulfilled. It does not say that it woulkd be fulfilled within the first generation. However it does state that the prophecies within that prophecy will be fulfilled within one lifetime. No one knows when it will start
8. Darius is a name like doctor or sir or so on, it is believed to be Astyages a family member of Cyrus. And it is also believed that he is the one who brought Daniel into Media

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