2 States Team In Sex Sting

Police arrested a 26-year-old Massachusetts man Thursday who arranged to meet for sex with an undercover investigator posing as a teen in an online chat- room. Full Story
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Officer Unfriendly

East Berlin, CT

#21 Apr 14, 2007
CTMomof2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Umm No, I do a lot of federal work and that is what happens---maybe you write too many tickets to know
I actually studied "Constitutional Law" in college and what they are doing is unconstitutional. What did you study in college?
Officer Unfriendly

East Berlin, CT

#22 Apr 14, 2007
CTMomof2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Unmmmm no its not wrong.......I was told this by a federal official and I work with them so yea i would know
Unmmmm yes it is wrong. Just because you were told it's ok, doesn't mean it is.

Since: Apr 07

Tolland

#23 Apr 14, 2007
Officer Unfriendly wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually studied "Constitutional Law" in college and what they are doing is unconstitutional. What did you study in college?
Ummmm actually im a paralegal that specializes in federal criminal defense.........and you? a cop wannabe??

Since: Apr 07

Tolland

#24 Apr 14, 2007
Officer Unfriendly wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually studied "Constitutional Law" in college and what they are doing is unconstitutional. What did you study in college?
answer me this genius, if its unconstitutional, then why are people getting convicted and IF there are any appeals, the judgment stands and its never reversed.
Veridicus

Allentown, PA

#25 Apr 14, 2007
"....why are people getting convicted and IF there are any appeals, the judgment stands and its [sic] never reversed."

Here's why, from a professor of political science at UMKC:

From Mirkin, H.(1999) The Pattern of Sexual Politics. Journal of Homosexuality 37 (2).

"... Sexual issues ... have been [one of] the major ones that have caused a suspension or diminution of constitutional rules and of normal political and Bill of Rights protections.... Sexual power positions are fiercely held and outcast groups ... have little political protection.(pp. 2, 3)"

Some day, someone will have the money to take these victimless sting operations all the way to the US Supreme Court, where they will no doubt be struck down.
Under The Law

East Berlin, CT

#26 Apr 14, 2007
CTMomof2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ummmm actually im a paralegal that specializes in federal criminal defense.........and you? a cop wannabe??
You are being rude. He is a cop and he has college. I think he would know more about this than you.
Under The Law

East Berlin, CT

#27 Apr 14, 2007
CTMomof2 wrote:
<quoted text>
answer me this genius, if its unconstitutional, then why are people getting convicted and IF there are any appeals, the judgment stands and its never reversed.
Ill answer you.... I do not think there have been any appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court and most of these cases result in plea bargains. Most of these suspects can't afford private lawyers.

I agree this is unconstitutional.

Since: Apr 07

Tolland

#28 Apr 15, 2007
Under The Law wrote:
<quoted text>
Ill answer you.... I do not think there have been any appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court and most of these cases result in plea bargains. Most of these suspects can't afford private lawyers.
I agree this is unconstitutional.
Do you know what a CJA lawyer is??? You don't have to be able to afford private counsel. And you are showing your ignornance as well by assuming that they are ALL appealed to the US Supreme Court. Before a case goes to that court, it must be appealed to the U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Do your research before speaking.

Since: Apr 07

Tolland

#29 Apr 15, 2007
Under The Law wrote:
<quoted text>
You are being rude. He is a cop and he has college. I think he would know more about this than you.
No, you're wrong. I can tell you from working on a federal case first hand where the individual contacted the "minor" in a chatroom and came across state lines assuming he was going to have intercourse.......surrrrrrrrrr rprise. And where do you think this individual is now??? Yes, he is in the custody of the U. S. Bureau of Prisons.
Cold Steel

Annapolis, MD

#30 Apr 15, 2007
"Do you know what a CJA lawyer is???"

Yes. Useless. Or worse. They intend to lose, because to win would sully their reputation.

"... by assuming that they are ALL appealed to the US Supreme Court." You are showing your ignorant illiteracy, as "Under the Law" said that there have NOT been any such appeals, even on an appellate level.

Here are some real and substantive questions:

Perhaps, in spite of the taboos so prevalent in western society, it is possible that boys - and all minors - are intrinsically entitled to the basic human right to explore and enjoy their sexuality as they see fit and with whomever they choose, so long as they do no real harm (as opposed to culturally imagined harm) to others or to themselves?

Perhaps our concept of "child" - which currently can include a 17-year-old 190 pound high school fullback - is inherently misguided and flawed?

Perhaps, since rights and responsibilities are opposite sides of the same coin, and a "child" of 10 or 12 can be held criminally responsible for such things as burglary or theft, it is only reasonable and just that this same "child" be afforded the right, with the previously noted caveat, to exercise his own sexuality?

Perhaps by denying a boy this basic human right to his own sexuality, we are denying his humanity?

Perhaps we, as a supposedly open-minded and intelligent society, need to be more questioning and introspective, and less reactive to what may well turn out to be an outmoded taboo?
Under The Law

East Berlin, CT

#31 Apr 15, 2007
CTMomof2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know what a CJA lawyer is??? You don't have to be able to afford private counsel. And you are showing your ignornance as well by assuming that they are ALL appealed to the US Supreme Court. Before a case goes to that court, it must be appealed to the U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Do your research before speaking.
No one is assuming anything. I'm well aware of how the appeals process works. None of these cases have made it to the Supreme Court. Most cases of this nature never make it to jury trial either. Stop making excuses for the system.
Steven_G_Erickso n

Holyoke, MA

#32 Apr 15, 2007
There are probably very few teens approaching adults for sex on the internet as compared to police officers posing as teens looking to have sex with adults.

For this very minute percentage of teens out there that do this, these underage teens are enticing adults to break the law. These teens should face therapy and in some cases arrests, lock up, and a trial.

Any adult that has sex or tries to have sex with an underage citizen should be prosecuted. If an adult police officer poses as a child, where is the actual victim.

A person that could violate the law has been identified. Whether they would or not with the psychological tricks police use to pick on weak and mentally ill citizens, does not qualify as the "save all" for humanity.

Those that would have sex with kids need mental help.

We the people need protection and service, not just a police force that is out maximizing revenue collection, asset, cash, and property seizures.

Police need to not just go for the headlines and hype, they still need to get off their butts and do the "hard" police WORK.
Veridicus

Allentown, PA

#33 Apr 15, 2007
To: Steven G Erickson:

Friendly question, OK?

We obviously take differing views on the rights of boys to their own sexuality, but I would like to sidestep that for now, if we may.....

While you opine that "[t]here are probably very few teens approaching adults for sex on the [I]nternet," I, conversely, have a gut feeling - or perhaps even what could be called a tentative "hypothesis" - that there may be a very substantial number of "successful" hookups between horny boys and cooperative older males, 99.9% of which escape outside interference. My reasoning is that these successes are what encourage so many others, both boys and older males, to continue trying to make these connections in the face of the media publicity about these stings, and that only the naive, imprudent, and unfortunate 0.1% are nailed by law enforcement.

I would sincerely appreciate a discussion of the source or derivation of your position, a critique of my feeling/hypothesis, and a comparison between your ideas and mine.

V.
Jay

Newington, CT

#34 Apr 17, 2007
Cold Steel wrote:
"Jay," in his self declared omniscience, has linked "Veridicus" to one "Dave Riegel." He further compliments Mr. Riegel by describing him as a "pedophile," a word which is grossly misused as a pejoration by the American Psychological Association and others, but which by etymology simply means a "friend of children." It has nothing to do with either sex or abuse, but shares the same Greek root (Philos) with words such as Philadelphia and Philip.
But nevertheless, I ran this man's name through search engines, and found that he is a recognized researcher who has been published in scientific and academic journals:
http://80.239.139.52/dlracapub s.html
He also has two books that are handled by
http://www.amazon.com/
but which I will not list here, in order not to be guilty of a commercial promotion. Just plug his name into the amazon.com search field.
He also has a web site at:
http://www.shfri.net/dlr/
Others have published research in the area of boy/older male sexual encounters. Harris Mirkin, noted author of The Patterns of Sexual Politics (1999, Journal of Homosexuality 37 2), has observed that "... laws seemingly designed for the protection of the young are really intended to control them." Bruce Rind et al have demonstrated that the majority of sexual contacts between boys and older person are non-negative (1998, A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples. Psychological Bulletin 124 1), and Larry Constantine has observed that "Negative reactions of parents [and other adults]... to a child's sexual encounters, aside from their function of inducing guilt, can be ... the most psychonoxious aspect of the entire experience (1981, The Effects of Early Sexual Experiences. In Children and Sex, Constantine, L. and Martinson, F.(Eds.) Boston: Little, Brown, and Company). All of these can be verified with a Google search on the names or article titles.
This is a complex set of issues, and simplistic - if not inane - retorts and accusations fail to address the real questions. It would be much better if this forum were used for sensible discussion.
Hey, cold steel or should I call you 'PA West'. How young do you like 'em?
Jay

Newington, CT

#35 Apr 17, 2007
Cold Steel wrote:
"Jay," in his self declared omniscience, has linked "Veridicus" to one "Dave Riegel." He further compliments Mr. Riegel by describing him as a "pedophile," a word which is grossly misused as a pejoration by the American Psychological Association and others, but which by etymology simply means a "friend of children." It has nothing to do with either sex or abuse, but shares the same Greek root (Philos) with words such as Philadelphia and Philip.
But nevertheless, I ran this man's name through search engines, and found that he is a recognized researcher who has been published in scientific and academic journals:
http://80.239.139.52/dlracapub s.html
He also has two books that are handled by
http://www.amazon.com/
but which I will not list here, in order not to be guilty of a commercial promotion. Just plug his name into the amazon.com search field.
He also has a web site at:
http://www.shfri.net/dlr/
Others have published research in the area of boy/older male sexual encounters. Harris Mirkin, noted author of The Patterns of Sexual Politics (1999, Journal of Homosexuality 37 2), has observed that "... laws seemingly designed for the protection of the young are really intended to control them." Bruce Rind et al have demonstrated that the majority of sexual contacts between boys and older person are non-negative (1998, A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples. Psychological Bulletin 124 1), and Larry Constantine has observed that "Negative reactions of parents [and other adults]... to a child's sexual encounters, aside from their function of inducing guilt, can be ... the most psychonoxious aspect of the entire experience (1981, The Effects of Early Sexual Experiences. In Children and Sex, Constantine, L. and Martinson, F.(Eds.) Boston: Little, Brown, and Company). All of these can be verified with a Google search on the names or article titles.
This is a complex set of issues, and simplistic - if not inane - retorts and accusations fail to address the real questions. It would be much better if this forum were used for sensible discussion.
The definition of a pedophile is "an adult that is sexually attracted to children" NOT "a friend of children". You didn't need to research Dave Riegel, you knew exactly who he was.You and he and Viamund all show up on the forums about pedophiles and spew your garbage. So answer a question. Are you sexually attracted to young boys and if so, how young,16,14,10,7??????
Anonymous

Springfield, MA

#36 Apr 25, 2007
These comments began as a reply to the original story of men being arrested for soliciation for sex with a minor. Period. It's a shame that those of you posting here with the intent to place the blame on the officers that are trying to protect our children are forgetting who the true perpetrators are.

I'm just thankful that these men hadn't truly conversed with a young child--it could have been my son!
Stimme des Grunds

Anonymous Proxy

#37 Apr 28, 2007
Ignorance produces fear of the unknown, and fear of the unknown produces blind, unreasoning hate, in a regenerative cycle that propagates and reinforces all three. Anyone who attempts to interrupt this vicious cycle by interjecting facts and reason is attacked by those who are frightened that such facts and reason may result in change, and who thus prefer ignorance, fear, and hate to any kind of rational examination and logical discussion.

But things do change. Many of us can remember when Jews, Blacks, Homosexuals, and various others were the victims of the same triad of ignorance, fear, and hate that is now directed at boys. And make no mistake, it is boys who are the real targets here, boys who reject their assigned subhuman status, boys who thumb their noses at their sexual repression, disenfranchised boys who want to see a final end to this “last taboo.” The older males who understand and cooperate with these boys are the convenient immediate target, but the boys who choose to explore and enjoy their burgeoning sexuality with these older males are targeted and traumatized (euphemistically referred to as “counseled”) just as much - and perhaps more.

One wonders if some of those who are spewing venom in this discussion are the same ones who would have - and may still - project their ignorance, fear, and blind hate at Jews, Blacks, and Homosexuals. Prejudice and bigotry, unfortunately, most likely always will be with us - as has been so amply demonstrated here. But hopefully the day will come when rationality and reason will become stronger and more prevalent than prejudice and bigotry, and light will replace the current darkness in the area of consensual sexually expressed boyhood relationships with older males.
Jay

Newington, CT

#38 Apr 28, 2007
Stimme des Grunds wrote:
Ignorance produces fear of the unknown, and fear of the unknown produces blind, unreasoning hate, in a regenerative cycle that propagates and reinforces all three. Anyone who attempts to interrupt this vicious cycle by interjecting facts and reason is attacked by those who are frightened that such facts and reason may result in change, and who thus prefer ignorance, fear, and hate to any kind of rational examination and logical discussion.
But things do change. Many of us can remember when Jews, Blacks, Homosexuals, and various others were the victims of the same triad of ignorance, fear, and hate that is now directed at boys. And make no mistake, it is boys who are the real targets here, boys who reject their assigned subhuman status, boys who thumb their noses at their sexual repression, disenfranchised boys who want to see a final end to this “last taboo.” The older males who understand and cooperate with these boys are the convenient immediate target, but the boys who choose to explore and enjoy their burgeoning sexuality with these older males are targeted and traumatized (euphemistically referred to as “counseled”) just as much - and perhaps more.
One wonders if some of those who are spewing venom in this discussion are the same ones who would have - and may still - project their ignorance, fear, and blind hate at Jews, Blacks, and Homosexuals. Prejudice and bigotry, unfortunately, most likely always will be with us - as has been so amply demonstrated here. But hopefully the day will come when rationality and reason will become stronger and more prevalent than prejudice and bigotry, and light will replace the current darkness in the area of consensual sexually expressed boyhood relationships with older males.
How young do you like 'em?
Dan S

Brockton, MA

#39 May 12, 2007
Believe it or not but this is actually my cousin. He was very shy and we thought he had some developemental problems but I only saw him 3 times a year. I would say, from knowing him growing up, this is definately a psycological problem. These people are sick and need help.
Bewildered in west-MA

Easthampton, MA

#41 Jun 25, 2007
In reference to the Farmington Police arrest of Albert "Jeffrey" Packard of Springfield, MA.....
I AM NO WAY DEFENDING THIS MAN!
Jeff and I had a physical relationship at one time, and were decent friends, and I spent time with his family. This was a huge shock to see him on the tv news. He never hinted at this side of him while I knew with him.
It breaks my heart to see he is not right in his morals and mentality. This just shows you that many times people have a secret side of their life.
If what is alleged is true, I hope he gets a just punishment, corrective action to show and learn the harm he has done, and counseling to help realize the pig he is, and any other measures that can be done to stop him from doing this to an actual victim.
Unbelievable.

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