Skinned cat found along road near Wen...

Skinned cat found along road near Wenatchee

There are 46 comments on the Bellingham Herald story from Oct 31, 2011, titled Skinned cat found along road near Wenatchee. In it, Bellingham Herald reports that:

Officials are trying to find who may have skinned the cat whose body was found Sunday on a road at Rock Island, about five miles southeast of East Wenatchee.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Bellingham Herald.

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Kurtz

Oxnard, CA

#1 Nov 1, 2011
Probably little white trash punk [email protected] all couraged-up on booze and drugs, and practicing to become wife and child beaters.
Justice

Pipestone, MN

#2 Nov 18, 2011
Now that's real justice for you. The cat got killed the very same way that it kills and tortures all other animals. The only one who is really responsible for this is the person who let the cat roam around free in the first place. They got justice for their actions, both owner and cat.
STINKCAT

Thames Ditton, UK

#3 Nov 19, 2011
Justice wrote:
Now that's real justice for you. The cat got killed the very same way that it kills and tortures all other animals. The only one who is really responsible for this is the person who let the cat roam around free in the first place. They got justice for their actions, both owner and cat.
The word 'deranged' probably appears numerous times in your medical records

“Spay and neuter your pet”

Since: Jul 07

Burnt Hills

#5 Nov 29, 2011
Justice wrote:
Now that's real justice for you. The cat got killed the very same way that it kills and tortures all other animals. The only one who is really responsible for this is the person who let the cat roam around free in the first place. They got justice for their actions, both owner and cat.
Wow you are stupid! Cats don't skin their prey alive. Actually except for humans all animals prefer to kill their prey very quickly and efficiantly. They do not want to fight with their food. Now humans on the other hand prefer to torture what they kill and be very slow and methodical. Animals kill for food and if that other animal becomes a threat. Humans kill not just for food or because it is threatening but they kill just for the fun of it or because they feel they have every right to take another's life away regardless if it is animal or human. I bet more humans kill little innocent babies this yr than any cat did. Actually I bet not one baby died this yr due to a cat. Let's see now how many mommy's and daddy's killed their own child in 2011. I bet you think all those babies died deserved it cause they were born to vile and vicious humans. You are cold and heartless!
Nature Advocate

Pipestone, MN

#6 Nov 30, 2011
To be perfectly honest, considering how cats cruelly torture and destroy all other animals by ripping the skins off of live animals or disemboweling them for slowly dying and twitching cats' play-toys (not even using them for food), I'm not sure why cats should be given the privilege of a humane death. I've been drawn to many animal screams in my woods to find their cats shredding another animal to death; which I had to then quickly put that animal out of its misery, torment, and suffering caused by that cat. Lucky for those I found so fast from their screams. Other wildlife that I'd find days later had died a slow and agonizing death from wounds after being shredded by their cats. I guess I'm just more humane than all cat-lovers and their cats, that's why their cats get shot and die instantly on my land instead of equitably and justifiably tortured to death. If cat-advocates want REAL justice for their cats then any cat found outdoors would have to be cruelly tortured to death the same way their cats cruelly torture all other animals -- something that I couldn't do. Maybe that's why TNR-advocates don't mind that their cats slowly suffer to death by means of "attrition" -- by disease, attacks, exposure, starvation, road-kill, etc., on ad-infinauseum. They have absolutely no problems in torturing animals. They're just like their cats.

“Spay and neuter your pet”

Since: Jul 07

Burnt Hills

#7 Nov 30, 2011
Nature Advocate wrote:
To be perfectly honest, considering how cats cruelly torture and destroy all other animals by ripping the skins off of live animals or disemboweling them for slowly dying and twitching cats' play-toys (not even using them for food), I'm not sure why cats should be given the privilege of a humane death. I've been drawn to many animal screams in my woods to find their cats shredding another animal to death; which I had to then quickly put that animal out of its misery, torment, and suffering caused by that cat. Lucky for those I found so fast from their screams. Other wildlife that I'd find days later had died a slow and agonizing death from wounds after being shredded by their cats. I guess I'm just more humane than all cat-lovers and their cats, that's why their cats get shot and die instantly on my land instead of equitably and justifiably tortured to death. If cat-advocates want REAL justice for their cats then any cat found outdoors would have to be cruelly tortured to death the same way their cats cruelly torture all other animals -- something that I couldn't do. Maybe that's why TNR-advocates don't mind that their cats slowly suffer to death by means of "attrition" -- by disease, attacks, exposure, starvation, road-kill, etc., on ad-infinauseum. They have absolutely no problems in torturing animals. They're just like their cats.
Yup, let's kill all the cats, big ones too like lions and tigers cause they kill their prey. While were're at it let's kill bears, and wolves too, oh and let's not forget dogs. Yes how many deer did you find lying dead in the forest that had been attacked by a cat. Next we can start killing humans cause they are the biggest killers of wildlife every day in this country. Millions of animals are run over by humans who drive their vehicles and then left to die in pain til the next driver decides to run over it again. Maybe I should have killed the woman who had hit a mama fox with her car or maybe that woman should have just been kept indoors by her owners and then this wouldn't have happened. Maybe if the person who hit the poor bunny outside of my home and split that bunnys chest and stomach wide open had never been allowed to leave the house that bunny would still be alive. Same with the drivers who have killed all those deer in front of my house over the yrs. The worst was when a driver killed a 6 week old fawn and mama deer was grieving off to the side of the road. Those people should have been never let out of their houses.
CATS CAUSE STUPID

Pipestone, MN

#8 Nov 30, 2011
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>Yup, let's kill all the cats, big ones too like lions and tigers cause they kill their prey. While were're at it let's kill bears, and wolves too,
The blatant ignorance and stupidity of cat-lovers is absolutely astounding. The domestic cat is genetically-engineered through selective breeding. An animal designed by man. They have the largest prey-base of any known predator and breed 2 to 3 times faster than any naturally-occurring NATIVE cat species anywhere in the world today. They are not a part of nature any place in the world. No different than some genetically altered insect that if released out into nature would destroy the balance of the whole native food-chain. JUST AS THEY DO.

Please go educate your sorry self.
STINKCAT

Colchester, UK

#9 Nov 30, 2011
CATS CAUSE STUPID wrote:
<quoted text>
The blatant ignorance and stupidity of cat-lovers is absolutely astounding. The domestic cat is genetically-engineered through selective breeding. An animal designed by man. They have the largest prey-base of any known predator and breed 2 to 3 times faster than any naturally-occurring NATIVE cat species anywhere in the world today. They are not a part of nature any place in the world. No different than some genetically altered insect that if released out into nature would destroy the balance of the whole native food-chain. JUST AS THEY DO.
Please go educate your sorry self.
Your sounding more stupid than ever, why not finish the day on a high and add some more judging icons to your comments. LOL!!!

“Spay and neuter your pet”

Since: Jul 07

Burnt Hills

#10 Nov 30, 2011
CATS CAUSE STUPID wrote:
<quoted text>
The blatant ignorance and stupidity of cat-lovers is absolutely astounding. The domestic cat is genetically-engineered through selective breeding. An animal designed by man. They have the largest prey-base of any known predator and breed 2 to 3 times faster than any naturally-occurring NATIVE cat species anywhere in the world today. They are not a part of nature any place in the world. No different than some genetically altered insect that if released out into nature would destroy the balance of the whole native food-chain. JUST AS THEY DO.
Please go educate your sorry self.
Again WOW!!!! So all these cats have come from labs that had them genetically-engineered and done through selective breeding. Gee, I didn't know that when the pilgrims first landed that they had laboratories to do this kind of thing. And to think back hundreds of yrs ago in Eygpt they did this too! Wow. Amazing! Bet you didn't know that during the black plague that towns that had cats were not so affected by this killer virus? And to think they have the largest prey base of any species and to think that I thought the top predator was humans. Gee, how stupid of me. You know you should have had a talk with God before he created and place these animals down upon the earth. I wonder what God thinks of you, someone who has such a vile dislike for one of His creations. You know I sit here laughing and think whoever said humans are the most intelligent species didn't happen to know you before they made that comment. If anyone out there wants to say humans are the smartest well, I beg to differ cause proof that they are not is right here in the above poster! Pathetic!
The Cat-Lover Mind

Pipestone, MN

#11 Dec 1, 2011
Here's a little information to help you understand the behaviors of "cat-lovers" and their cats. Something I discovered when local "cat-lovers" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) were using cats to overtake my land and woods, eventually even by moving my property markers when using their cats had failed -- failed because I got the legal go-ahead to shoot them all on my land.(An expensive many $1000s lesson for these property-thieves, surveyors are not cheap.) I often wondered why they kept releasing new cats onto my land even long AFTER they already knew that all their cats were being shot to death, they were told this is what was going to happen, and was happening. They didn't care about cats AT ALL! Clearly something else was motivating these people. How many so-called "cat-lovers" do you know that keep releasing cats and letting them roam free even after seeing many of them become road-kill, harmed by cat and animal attacks, die of diseases, killed by poisonous plants or animals they encounter outdoors, etc.?(Like every last TNR-advocate for starters.) They don't care about cats, not in the least!

Now you'll know exactly why cat-lovers do what they do. It really has nothing at all to do with their concern for cats, nor even the lives of anyone nor anything else, quite the opposite.

Human Territorial Behavior By Expendable Proxy

I have come to the inexorable conclusion that the vast majority of "cat-lovers" and cat-owners that let their destructive invasive-species roam free, and especially those that defend the rights of feral cats to overtake private and public property and wildlife areas, are only (cowardly) using cats as a proxy for their OWN territorial behavior. Not unlike uneducated inner-city youth that will disrespectfully and inconsiderately use loud music to stake-out a territory for themselves. Whether this behavior is done consciously or subconsciously, the underlying motive is the same. As long as they can have one of their cats defecate in another's yard or destroy their property, animals, and wildlife; and the land-owner not have any recourse; the cat-owner/caretaker owns that territory. It's time to put a stop to them using their "cute kitty" excuse for usurping and stealing others' property. If they want territory they can damn well buy it just like anyone else. Instead they're using underhanded, disrespectful, and manipulative means. By putting (and sacrificing) live animals in the path of their envy and greed. "Cat-lovers" only really want your yard, garden, or forest while making all others and all other animals suffer for what they can't have nor own. Bottom line--they want to control you and your property. That's _ALL_ that "cat-lovers" are really after. It's why they don't care at all if their cat nor any other animals, nor even other humans, get harmed by their goals and (lack of) values in life.

Property owners: Start charging "Cat-Recreation Land-Use Fees" to all cat-owners that use your land. I suggest a fee of $10,000 per day per cat. You have the right to charge any amount you want for someone using your land for any purpose. If they can't pay then you get to legally own their property from debts incurred, just like they have stolen your property illegally with their cats.

There's an interesting news report about a community in Florida recently where cat-advocates are trying to get a court to allow them to use a local shopping-center where they can keep their cats (to act as speed-bumps and car-accidents waiting to happen I presume). We can now add "Shopping Centers" to the kinds of property that they want to steal from the owners and control. It never ends with them! Destroy all cats before they and their advocates can and WILL destroy you.

They can't be stopped from their behavior. They psychotically believe they are doing "god's work" for themselves.(see post directly above for 100% proof of this) So you must destroy their cats. It's the ONLY solution.

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The Cat-Lover Mind

Pipestone, MN

#12 Dec 1, 2011
To address but a few of your blatantly IGNORANT misconceptions and LIES that you have told and respew all your sorry and ignorant life ...
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>AGee, I didn't know that when the pilgrims first landed that they had laboratories to do this kind of thing.
You don't need a lab to conduct genetic-engineering. You only need to practice selective-breeding. The very thing that has been happening to cats ever since humans selected them to become a companion animal.
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>And to think back hundreds of yrs ago in Eygpt they did this too! Wow. Amazing!
Not amazing at all.(And that's thousands of years ago, not hundreds. Try to use some other measure than what your priest told you to believe for a chronological yard-stick.) This genetic-engineering for man's purposes has been going on ever since humans started to raise animals and plants and were no longer hunter-gatherer societies. You're not very well versed in the history of humanity nor any of the sciences are you.

Time for you to get your nose out of that one and only book of lies that you call the bible. Then you won't look and prove to be so foolish to the rest of the world. Here's a clue for you to get you started on why you should question every last sentence in that bible of yours. The 7-day week is a Norse invention. How come your deranged lunatic ramblings in your bible from a middle-east culture starts out with a Norse invention? From page one, that book is nothing but a pack of lies, cover to cover. You amazingly blathering idiot.
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>Bet you didn't know that during the black plague that towns that had cats were not so affected by this killer virus?
Bet you didn't know that if they had more cats around that the plague would have spread further and faster than it had. As it most likely will this time around. Because you don't even know that CATS CARRY AND SPREAD THE PLAGUE ALL BY THEMSELVES, EVEN WITHOUT THE HOST FLEA. Just another one of the many LIES from pathetically stupid and ignorant cat-lovers now completely dispelled.

http://outbreaknews.com/2011/07/29/colorado-s...

“Spay and neuter your pet”

Since: Jul 07

Burnt Hills

#13 Dec 1, 2011
The Cat-Lover Mind wrote:
Here's a little information to help you understand the behaviors of "cat-lovers" and their cats. Something I discovered when local "cat-lovers" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) were using cats to overtake my land and woods, eventually even by moving my property markers when using their cats had failed -- failed because I got the legal go-ahead to shoot them all on my land.(An expensive many $1000s lesson for these property-thieves, surveyors are not cheap.) I often wondered why they kept releasing new cats onto my land even long AFTER they already knew that all their cats were being shot to death, they were told this is what was going to happen, and was happening. They didn't care about cats AT ALL! Clearly something else was motivating these people. How many so-called "cat-lovers" do you know that keep releasing cats and letting them roam free even after seeing many of them become road-kill, harmed by cat and animal attacks, die of diseases, killed by poisonous plants or animals they encounter outdoors, etc.?(Like every last TNR-advocate for starters.) They don't care about cats, not in the least!

Property owners: Start charging "Cat-Recreation Land-Use Fees" to all cat-owners that use your land. I suggest a fee of $10,000 per day per cat. You have the right to charge any amount you want for someone using your land for any purpose. If they can't pay then you get to legally own their property from debts incurred, just like they have stolen your property illegally with their cats.
There's an interesting news report about a community in Florida recently where cat-advocates are trying to get a court to allow them to use a local shopping-center where they can keep their cats (to act as speed-bumps and car-accidents waiting to happen I presume). We can now add "Shopping Centers" to the kinds of property that they want to steal from the owners and control. It never ends with them! Destroy all cats before they and their advocates can and WILL destroy you.
They can't be stopped from their behavior. They psychotically believe they are doing "god's work" for themselves.(see post directly above for 100% proof of this) So you must destroy their cats. It's the ONLY solution.
Wow, now it is confirmed for sure with all your rambling bs that you really are pathetic. I can also bet that you kill any animal that comes on your property. Heck coyotes, foxes and racoons can carry the rabies virus, deer will eat your trees, shrubs and flowers, rodents carry diseases, squirrels digging up your lawn planting nuts and birds crapping all over your car. In the end I think you'd look for any reason to kill any animal. IMO, for all your written words you know nothing about cats. And for your info cats didn't come into this country all by themselves. It was the human factor that brought them here. It is also the human factor that let them roam and allows them to reproduce. Yet you continue to kill those innocent creatures that had no hand in being on your property. The reason for your problem is due to irresponsible, selfish, greedy and ignorant humans.
BTW yrs ago I moved from city life to a nice quiet life in the country. I have all animals come and go on my property including cats and I have never had a problem with any animal. My reason for moving was due to the human factor, trespassing on my property, stealing my produce, pulling up my scrubs and plants, leaving garbage on my property, drugs and the use of guns in my neighborhood and radios blasting all night long. And you think you got problems with cats, wow again you are pathetic! I'd rather have 100 cats pass on my property than one stinking low life human. If I see a cat I leave it alone, when I see a human on my property for any reason I reach for my gun and when I have to open my door that is the first thing they see.

“Spay and neuter your pet”

Since: Jul 07

Burnt Hills

#16 Dec 2, 2011
STINKCAT wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL only an effing old idiot would name a rifle "Tweety Pie" But lets be serious,in your opinion what role did cats play in making you a crank??????
BTW Have fun decorating your posts again make sure they look nice LOL!!!!!
LOL, I have to laugh at all the times he had to sign in under another name just to post those judge it icons. lol lol lol! That being said we can tell from all his ramblings that this person has some serious issues. It is certainly not human but sounds more like some sick, pathetic, vicious, vile, sadistic monster. Seems to me that kind of monster should NOT be roaming out among civil compassionate humans. If only I could put it in my crosshairs I'd gladly pull the trigger and the world would be a better place:)
Cat-Lover Mind Revealed

Minneapolis, MN

#17 Dec 2, 2011
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>If only I could put it in my crosshairs I'd gladly pull the trigger and the world would be a better place:)
This just goes to prove again what I've suspected all along ... the T. gondii parasites in cat-lovers brains won't let them think nor reason beyond wanting to ensure the proliferation of more Toxoplasma gondii parasites throughout the whole food-chain and into more humans, by spreading their genetically-engineered, nature-destroying, INVASIVE-SPECIES cats even further. Even if they have to harm or murder humans that stand in their way. They are being controlled against all common-sense and reason by the cats' parasites that have taken over their minds.

Get tested for T. gondii if you are defending these invasive-species cats' lives. You're most likely obeying cats' parasites in your brain now. You can no longer think and reason like a human, ignoring all logic and common-sense. Your thoughts demoted to that of protozoan awareness, where only its base biochemical survival matters, without concern nor regard for anything else in its environment.(Sounds just like every cat-lover, doesn't it.) Though either way, even if you are not infected by this cat-parasite and still feel that it's better to harm a human than a cat, seek professional help before you act on these blatantly clear psychopathic and sociopathic thoughts and values of yours.

"Toxoplasmosis and psychology: A game of cat and mouse"
http://www.economist.com/node/16271339

"Crazy Cat Love: Caused By Parasitic Infection?"
http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/18/crazy-c...

"Research Links Parasite In Cats To Mental Illnesses"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php...

p.s. Thanks for the publicly recorded death-threat. I collect them. I've gotten and saved hundreds by now. I may put them to use one day. The FBI has been interested in obtaining my list so they can go after them all.:-) I could care less, but they seem interested in pursuing them for some reason.
STINKCAT

Horsham, UK

#18 Dec 3, 2011
Cat-Lover Mind Revealed wrote:
<quoted text>
This just goes to prove again what I've suspected all along ... the T. gondii parasites in cat-lovers brains won't let them think nor reason beyond wanting to ensure the proliferation of more Toxoplasma gondii parasites throughout the whole food-chain and into more humans, by spreading their genetically-engineered, nature-destroying, INVASIVE-SPECIES cats even further. Even if they have to harm or murder humans that stand in their way. They are being controlled against all common-sense and reason by the cats' parasites that have taken over their minds.
Get tested for T. gondii if you are defending these invasive-species cats' lives. You're most likely obeying cats' parasites in your brain now. You can no longer think and reason like a human, ignoring all logic and common-sense. Your thoughts demoted to that of protozoan awareness, where only its base biochemical survival matters, without concern nor regard for anything else in its environment.(Sounds just like every cat-lover, doesn't it.) Though either way, even if you are not infected by this cat-parasite and still feel that it's better to harm a human than a cat, seek professional help before you act on these blatantly clear psychopathic and sociopathic thoughts and values of yours.
If you feel you need help with your problem why not check into the nearest mental institution they really will be interested in what you say, don't forget to tell them about Tweety Pie. LOL!!!
The Cat-Lover Mind

Pipestone, MN

#21 Dec 3, 2011
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>No doubt, you probably did! But what do you expect from someone who has no heart, is cold, mean spirited, vile, vicious, sadistic and above all else evil. Just like the guy who beat the dog for peeing in the house and two weeks later he killed his girlfriends son. Statistics prove if you have the ability to kill an animal in such a callous manner you also have the ability to kill a child. You are a danger to society.
This must be just like all those deeply disturbed serial-killers in the making that are eradicating all those other invasive-species like Kudzu, Purple-Loosestrife, Gypsy Moths, Emerald Ash-Borers, African Cichlids, Burmese Pythons, Brown Tree Snakes, and Eurasian Watermilfoil from their lands and lakes. MANY of which are escaped pets or were released from pets' habitats (Eurasian Watermilfoil came from pet fish aquariums).

Or how about all those sickos that run animal-shelters, they're nothing but a bunch of child-murdering pedophiles because they have to euthanize animals every day. And every farmer and rancher that has to humanely put down an animal with a gun must be molesting and murdering everything in their county. Those damned sickos! And what about all those people in stockyards murdering all those cattle every day for your McBurgers? I bet they're a hide-out for all the serial-killers that nobody can find! And all those hunters that provide food for their family by hunting, I bet they're the worst of all!

I bet you're onto something!

Like your needing serious psychological help.
The Cat-Lover Mind

Pipestone, MN

#22 Dec 3, 2011
Norskejente wrote:
<quoted text>Police everywhere take the killing of animals very seriously and I feel it is my duty to report you to topix and our local police so you can be investigated. BTW my brother in law is a cop and I'm sure once he sees this he too will agree. Beware!
If your brother is as ignorant and stupid as you are (you know what they say about genetics), have fun!

The general rule-of-thumb in the USA is that if your land is in an area zoned for agricultural or livestock use then it is perfectly legal to destroy any animal, someone's pet or not, that is threatening the well-being and safety of your own animals or family. The only animals exempt from you taking immediate action, legally, are those listed on endangered or threatened species lists, and any bird species under protection of MBTA (the Migratory Bird Treaty Act). Even then variances can be given should there be sufficient problem but this requires further study by authorities. Since cats are listed in the top 100 WORST invasive-species of the world in the "Global Invasive Species Database", this means they have no protection whatsoever from being shot on sight. And in fact, if your area enforces and obeys invasive-species laws -- as they should -- then it is against the law to NOT destroy any cat on sight, someone's pet or not. It is your civic and moral responsibility to destroy any invasive-species that is found away from safe confinement and roaming freely in a non-native habitat.

A cat-owner that releases their cat in an area zoned for any form of livestock or agricultural use has no legal grounds to sue anyone if their cat is shot. Even if the shooter walks up to the door of the ex-cat-owner and hands their dead cat back to them, saying, "I shot your cat, here it is! Better luck next time!" Though local law-enforcement frowns on this because the criminally-irresponsible ex-cat-owner will just raise a stink with law-enforcement, wasting their time when they have more important things to do than explain to and coddle an idiot. Hence the popular "SSS Cat Management Program" (Shoot, Shovel, & Shut-Up) method to save your gendarmes the further hassle by the ex-cat-owning trouble-makers.

In fact, here's a publication from a study done by the University of Nebraska on the best ways to HUMANELY deal with a feral-cat problem wherever you live. This documentation INCLUDES the best firearms, ammo, and air-rifles required to HUMANELY destroy cats. http://deenawinter.files.wordpress.com/2010/1...

Besides, what difference does it make if the cat gets shot or ran over by a car or attacked by another animal, drowned, or poisoned? The result is the same. The cause is the same -- the fault of the criminally irresponsible pet-owner that let that invasive-species pet roam free. It only means they really didn't care about that cat at all so nobody else should either.

When flying over the USA on a clear day, look down. Then you'll see that vast coast-to-coast patchwork-quilt of farms and ranches where it's legal to shoot or poison every last cat.

(Though poison is frowned upon, because once released into the environment, it goes on to harm anything that comes in contact with it. It cannot be easily retrieved from nature once it's done its job. This is why shooting, or trapping and drowning, all excess and stray cats is the preferred method.)

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Pipestone, MN

#24 Dec 4, 2011
Methinks that "Norskejente" and any of their "law abiding relatives" should be more concerned about Norskejente issuing public death-threats than anything else at this point.

It will be fun to see how this plays out.:-)

Something tells me that neither of these genetic lineages should be allowed to procreate. If not for the safety of themselves, then for the safety of the world.

LOL!
STINKCAT

Tiptree, UK

#25 Dec 4, 2011
Cat-Lover Mind Revealed wrote:
<quoted text>
The last person who thought I was joking, I posted a photo of a pile of freshly-shot dead cats for them. They no longer thought I was joking. And they most certainly weren't laughing anymore.
Post what you like it will no doubt reinforce opinion that you are a disturbed indivdal

PS. Be a good psycho and they may allow you to hang your photos on the asylum walls.. LOL!!!!!!
STINKCAT

Tiptree, UK

#26 Dec 4, 2011
>individual<

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