Wekiwa Springs' survival pits the unpalatable vs. the unthinkable

A spring answers the mystery of what lies beneath the surface. The gin-clear water reveals a world of lush green jungles, meandering fish, bustling turtles, fallen trees and even the occasional manatee or alligator.

[The Lorax]

It's a difficult tradeoff, to be sure.

Regarding the hit to property values, if people bought homes with the idea that they should be HOMES and not future profit generators, then that wouldn't be an issue. That is to say, if they moved in with and idea that they wouldn't leave again until someone carried them out, this wouldn't be an issue.

So, no sympathy for that line of thought.

You are correct, however, that it would be a major financial PITA in terms of operating costs and regulational headaches. Ack.

BUT, if you moved into that area because of it's pristine environment, one would think that you would move to either embrace whatever methods are put on the table, or do the research needed to develop others.

Once the environment is shot, it generally takes a really long time to regenerate. Most of the people currently participating in its degradation wouldn't be around to see it restored.

But, who cares???

After all, if it gets too bad, they can always sell, and go somewhere prettier and do it all over again.

[Chris]

'or changing my family's lifestyle to reduce the amount of pollution flowing into the tank.'

A lot of us are going to have to change our lifestyle. People in the Wekiva basin may have to change more than most-tough. You ARE polluting, just because it's out of sight doesn't mean it's not happening. You don't want to install a better septic system? You're welcome to install composting toilets. Low tech, low cost. The only argument should be how quickly this is done...all new homes should be built this way, or connected to central sewer.

[Kidd]

Growing up in this area, I have always valued the Wekiva and its beauty. I kayak, fish and enjoy the clear water, and agree it should be protected.
BUT: A rush to enact an imperfect solution, as Mike says, can do more harm than good to our water because it will lull the public into thinking we have done enough. Mike's figures are off. The actual cost of the "super-septic" systems is more like $15,000 per household. This translates to an $825,000,000.00 burden being placed on a fraction of our residents.
How many of you would vote for a tax hike in today's climate so we could do the right thing, and build a sewage treatment system for our region? If we all are stewards of our natural resource, shouldn't we all pay the price?
The "super-septic" solution places the burden on only a few, and worse yet, is unproven technology that probably won't work. Get a grip Mike and don't panic. There are plenty of trees to hug while the solution to the problem can be found.

[Orlando Homegrown]

People want to improve the water quality 100% in the area springs? That's as simple as forbidding the third world immigrants from entering the water! Rock springs has to be shut down about every three or four weeks during the summer because of the amount of urine present in the water! This is NOT from septic tank leadage into underground aquafiers! It's from the total lack of self respect and upbringing in the hispanic communities carried over from the "Old country"! Instead of getting out of the water and going to the restroom facilities they just pee in the same water they are swimming in! What disgusting lifestyles some of these people live in! I used to travel upstream by canoe into Wekiva Springs long before it became a state park! It was privately owned and never opened to the public unless you snuck in like my friends and I did. Those clumps of algea were floating around even back then. That was 50 years ago! It is simply part of the ecosystem and NOT derived from old septic tanks! Anything to get the government involved! What a joke!

[Our Future]

I completely understand that many people are suffering right now with the economy being down the tubes and jobs hard to find. I don't however think it is right for homeowners to continue to pollute one of Florida's most sacred resource; water. I think the question that needs to be possed is, is your health and the future of Florida worth a couple extra headaches? In my opinion it is. We cannot wait for the perfect sollution, because technology is ever evolving. We must use what improvements are offered us this day and in ten years do the same when additional improvements have been made.

[Errors in billions]

The OPINION piece that Mr. Thomas has written is loaded with incorrect numbers and overlooks an obvious alternative. First the systems cost $14,000 (according to the Dept of Health Review committee's reports, other sources quote up to $18,000) not the $5,000 quoted in the column. Operating costs are cited at $50 per month for electricity and $1800 per year for inspection and chemical recharge.(It isn't all aeration.) The $350 for inspections should be $250 twice annually.
I'd like to be at Mr. Thomas' home when the power is out during a hurricane or other event and he and his family cannot use the toilet, bathe or wash a dish (by hand). I do not want to be in my own under those conditions. Or maybe when he has to tell the family that Thanksgiving dinner for the broader family can't be at his house because the septic system will not handle the high input of more people.
Mr. Thomas overlooked the obvious first alternative which is a rule for mandatory inspection and pumping of the existing systems. I do this every 2-3 years because it just makes good sense. A requirement for pumping/inspection and greater urging of bacterial recharge (a box of Rid-X down the toilet every 2-3 months) would make the current systems more efficient at little cost.
The one remaining obvious number set that Mr. Thomas' OPINION piece fails to consider is the cummulative effect. The 60,000 home effected at $15,000 per system initially is $900 million dollars. The inspection fees and recharge costs (assuming no hurricanes or other widespread breakdowns with special repair and restart costs) with $108 million annually. Mr. Thomas might want to 'follow the money' to find out why the Dept of Health is pressing so hard to promulgate this rule when the effected homeowners AND the department's own review committee say, "NO."
Part of the answer to that may like in the fact that virtually all of Seminole County is outside the area that will require these devices though the water course of the Wekiva and the Little Wekiva run though that area.
Mr. Thomas might also ask why the bigger polluters (residential fertilizer 41%, agricultural and commercial fertilizer 25%, livestock 8%, and 'atmospheric deposition' 11%- that's lightning & weeds like clover - are not being attacked first as the review committee urged.
Finally, Mr. Thomas might consider how the value of HIS home will be permanently impaired by the installation of such a device. Will someone want to buy his home with an annual operating cost of $3,000 for this system when they can go a short distance away - say Seminole County - and buy a similar home without this cost - a cost that will total $60,000 over a 20 year mortgage term? Multiple that value effect times the 60,000 homes that will be permanently devalued.
Then extend that devaluation to the reduction in the tax base of Orange and Lake Counties (the effected counties) and consider how much worse will be the reductions in services and education resources that come from this rule. That would mean higher tax rates for ALL of the residents of Orange and Lake counties to make up for the revenue shortfalls.
Remember "connect the dots"?

[Chris]

Orlando Homegrown wrote:

People want to improve the water quality 100% in the area springs? That's as simple as forbidding the third world immigrants from entering the water! Rock springs has to be shut down about every three or four weeks during the summer because of the amount of urine present in the water! This is NOT from septic tank leadage into underground aquafiers! It's from the total lack of self respect and upbringing in the hispanic communities carried over from the "Old country"! Instead of getting out of the water and going to the restroom facilities they just pee in the same water they are swimming in! What disgusting lifestyles some of these people live in! I used to travel upstream by canoe into Wekiva Springs long before it became a state park! It was privately owned and never opened to the public unless you snuck in like my friends and I did. Those clumps of algea were floating around even back then. That was 50 years ago! It is simply part of the ecosystem and NOT derived from old septic tanks! Anything to get the government involved! What a joke!

You're a very stupid racist. Urine is basically sterile. The reason the parks close is because of bacteria related to animals or septic tanks.

[Disgusting]

As an Old, WHITE and decidedly Anglo citizen I finds the remarks by Orlando Homeground to be reprehensible.(Homegrown: that means deserving censure.)
There is absolutely no reason to think that any one ethnic group is more likely to commit the fouling of swimming water than any other. As a matter of fact I was at a pool recently when a kid came to her fat mother who was lounging at the side of the pool and asked to be taken to the restroom - it was outside the fenced area about 30 yards away. This obese woman told her child to 'just go do it in the water.'(My wife was outraged and jumped up saying she would take the child to the restroom if the mother was too lazy to do it.) So maybe we should denigrate all overweight people.

This whale was Anglo and very white except for her neck.

[6 Actual]

I have property on the Rock Springs run, and I can tell you that the park is Hispanic. I don't know about the urine, but for a fact loaded disposable diapers wash out of the park every weekend. Maybe a dna check is in order. For years the park tried to blame bears for the bacteria in the water, but bears have better sense than to poop in the run. Everybody knows that bears poop in the woods.
As to the Wekiva septic tanks, the 2 million dollar study was politically awarded to a Miami company, to study and present facts based on a model using the geology in South Florida. The data is flawed from the start.

[Liz]

Mike,
I usually find your articles amusing if not always on key. This one, however, made me cringe. Now, I'm all for maintaining the beauty of our state and water supply and do my best to comply with all water regulations, but this rule is ridiculous.
First of all, upon hearing of this upcoming mandate, I did my homework and found that the DOH's own Technical Review and Advisory Panel has NOT approved this. In addition, how do they explain encompassing the southern shore of Lake Apopka as this area (Oakland for example) falls within the Oklawaha drainage basin and not the Wekiva?
How can the DOH and the State of Florida completely ignore the concerns of its citizens, which for most part are valid? Especially in these times, how can they say to its citizens: You can't move out of your house or refinance until you add this expensive and unproven system?
Do they not realize that this could compound the problems we are facing by trapping people in homes when they are struggling to avoid foreclosure?
Now, I've heard all the rebuttals why this "has" to take effect:
1. They can't build the Wekiva Parkway until this is done; or
2. Senator Constantine's bill will provide grants for those who can't afford the cost of these systems.
However, these are both crap (if you pardon the pun.)
Constantine's bill, which has been postponed twice in sub committees will only deem those who are at 200% of the Federal Poverty Level eligible. Do you know what the poverty level is? I looked it up. If you are living in a household of 2, your household would have to make less than $14,000 a year. That means that to qualify for Constantine's grant you would have to, as a household, be making less than $28,000 a year.
$28,000 a year???!!!!
Even if this system only costs $8,000 (which is severely underestimated), that's over a quarter of what you make annually. And to top that off, even if you do qualify, you aren't guaranteed the full amount of the system AND its a rebate, which makes you have to shell it out up front and wait for the government to send you a check (and that always works out so well).
Constantine is asking for $1.82M for budgeting from the State for this bill. So when we're laying off teachers right and left, the State of Florida is going to allot that money for the bill? I don't think so. This is just a ruse to push this DOH rule through and will not actually go into effect.
Its absurdities like this that make the public so cynical about government. When is common sense going to factor into decision making?

[Kidd]

We have not talked about the cost to evacuate and shelter over 100,000 residents due to simple power failures after a hurricane. The simple fact is, this "solution" will not work without electricity, so our homes will become inhabitable. Even after the power has been restored, there will be a backlog of these "home sewage treatment plants" in need of a "reset" by a licensed contractor.

There is a reason that this technology has been outlawed in other states.

Mike, I am surprised at your lack of understanding of the issue, and failure to think things through instead of jumping to a knee-jerk solution that is based on unproven science. Furthermore, you apparently are waiting to be legally bound to make this change instead of spending your money now. If it is such a good idea, why haven't you already jumped on the bandwagon and ponied up your cash?

Hypocrite!

[Kidd]

In reading my post above, for some reason the Sentinel filtered out the word knee, replacing it with ****. I am not sure why, but please let it be known that I was not using profanity in my previous post. Knee and jerk are words often used together to describe a rash decision.

[Kidd]

Ok, let's try again. The articulating join found between the hip and the ankle is often referred to in this phrase. What a joke this has become. Isn't it a pity that the Sentinel didn't filter out the inaccuracies of Mike's column today?

[Chris]

Kidd wrote:

We have not talked about the cost to evacuate and shelter over 100,000 residents due to simple power failures after a hurricane. The simple fact is, this "solution" will not work without electricity, so our homes will become inhabitable. Even after the power has been restored, there will be a backlog of these "home sewage treatment plants" in need of a "reset" by a licensed contractor.
There is a reason that this technology has been outlawed in other states.
Mike, I am surprised at your lack of understanding of the issue, and failure to think things through instead of jumping to a ****-jerk solution that is based on unproven science. Furthermore, you apparently are waiting to be legally bound to make this change instead of spending your money now. If it is such a good idea, why haven't you already jumped on the bandwagon and ponied up your cash?
Hypocrite!

I thought the pump just aerated the sewage? Not pumped it out, unless you have a reuse system?

[Monique Richison]

Hey Mr. Thomas you write "And so what is my obligation here?" As you seem to be carrying the government party line (I'm on John Byrd's mailing list), then I will tell you exactly what your obligation is...VOLUNTARILY get one of these systems installed. RIGHT NOW...go ahead...you'll see just how far off you are on the number for cost of installation. Did the DOH also happen to mention to you the ADDITIONAL cost(s) of professional engineering plans for EACH site is needed $$? How about the cost of installing a dedicated 20-amp electrical outdoor rated circuit$$? Oh yeah, the cost of pumping your old septic before either removing it from your property or collapsing it on your property$$? If you have a small homesite then you will have to pay for its removal along with the removal of your current drainfield and the saturated soil, with more soil brought in for your new drainfield$$. Guess they didn't tell you about that, did they? The $8000.00 cost is just for the aerobic tank/components (The estimate I received was $9900.00.

Have you asked the manufacturers of these tanks to provide to you their test for the nitrogen per liter that is pumped out into the drainfield? I've not yet found one that meets what the DOH is stating needs to be the standard of 10mg/liter at the outlet. You know what this opens you (and me) up to? Ongoing unfunded mandates to continually upgrade...upgrade...upgrade. Every time a "new fangled" technology comes on the market we will be the guinea pigs for environmental whims.

Did the DOH also tell you that you can't use your system in the event of a power outage. Oh yeah, there is a few hours of 'reserve', but after that you are SOL...no pun intended. Now, if you are willing to spend an additional couple of thousand dollars you can have a dedicated, hardwired generator installed on your aerobic tank. Just think, you'd be the hit of the neighborhood as everyone will be able to come over and shower at your place. You could even charge a nominal fee for the privilege...it would help defray the ongoing, lifetime maintenance, inspection and permit costs.

So, Mr. Thomas, you be the first, okay? Please heed what Mr. Thompson wrote to you...he challenged you with facts, not governmental propaganda. After you get one installed would you please post the TOTAL bill on the internet...because if you get the $8000.00 'deal', I'll go with that company too. Remember because you agree with this mandate...no newspaper discounts.

[Kidd]

No, if the pump stops, the whole system shuts down. This means nothing works. When the pump stops, the fluid doesn't go to the drain field, so everything backs up within a day.

This is just a bad idea all the way around.

[Kay]

Explain to me if you can how my septic tank in Oakland supposedly has an impact on the Wekiva River 10 miles away, but not Lake Apopka which is 2 blocks away!!! I would also be interested to know why closing the parks on the Wekiva when bacteria counts go up helps them go down if the septic tanks are the problem, here's a thought, close the parks for a month and monitor the decline, maybe that is the problem, no cost involved in finding that out is there, and no property is devalued in the process either. This "feel good" rule is being shoved down our throats, it is not appropriate, it is not validated by science and the folks shoving it down our throats don't have to comply, how nice for them. I did not elect anyone at DOH, where is my representation in the process, this is just another unfunded mandate from Tallahassee!

[Monique Richison]

It's so great to see the myriad of informed folks on this assinine unfunded mandate posting comments. I've followed this for almost five years, attending numerous Wekiva Basin Commission Meetings and a few of the TRAP (Technical Review and Advisory Panel) meetings. So, yeah, I'm up to my neck in...well, governmental crap.

Here's something interesting for Mount Dora residents to consider. The Wekiva Study Area cuts right down the middle of several streets...leaving, essentially, next door neighbors with two different sets of septic tank rules. One will have to install this costly aerobic system, the other not. So, folks, just which house are you going to buy (regardless of the current housing market problems.)? Fifteen thousand dollars and ongoing, uncertain governmental upgrades and monthly costs would certainly turn my head to the home with the traditional system. Those of us located right near that study area border (I'm three blocks in) are basically being blacklisted...this is something we will be required to reveal on a seller disclosure form.

BTW, Chris, I live NO where near the Wekiva River/Springs. I am about 18+- miles away and did not buy a home in the Wekiva Basin...I'm in the Oklawaha Basin...so go figure. I did not buy a huge home that I couldn't afford. I bought a modest 1100 square foot, 46-year-old home with a septic tank. I knew (know) that one day I may have to replace that tank...but never in my wildest dreams did I think with a system that will cost 18% of my home's value. It's absurd. If you think you are exempt from this mandate because you are not in the Wekiva Study Area, then I ask that you note that these aerobic systems are now mandatory in Wakulla and Charlotte County...coming soon to a county near you!

From the beginning I have said that my septic tank has NOTHING to do with the building of a road!! This environmental mandate was stuck into the Wekiva Parkway and Protection Act to appease opponents of the roadway cutting through sensitive areas (that's for another discussion). Those environmentalists knew, have always known, that this would never have even seen the light of day if it were a stand alone bill. They had to put it in the shadow of this massive roadbuilding bill in order to divert our attention...they've been trying to get this rulemaking on the books for four years now...there is a group of us who have fought them at every turn with our own research and facts, NOT government propaganda.

Folks, stay informed on this issue and attend the upcoming rulemaking meetings in your communities to face down the DOH folks.

Finally, if the traditional septic tanks are so bad, then would someone please tell me why they are still permitted to be installed?

[paintwhat]

Gee lets see, we have a storm and the power is off for 5 days, who will pay for the motel rooms for 20,000 plus people? Not counting how long it is going to take for them to reset the tank, and what about the power surges, and all of the electronics gets fried.

[kimba]

Why isn't Lake County moving forward with sewage treatment plants so septic tanks can be abandoned or removed?