Local terrorism/ Gangs???

Local terrorism/ Gangs???

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Todd J

Savannah, GA

#1 Oct 7, 2007
I have lived in the township for over 15 yrs. & have seen alot of changes in our local population, more & more gangs of teens are prowling our streets at night. My wife & I just came back from petoskey last night after a few days of visiting relatives, we thought to stop in to our son's apartment off of pontiac lake rd. to drop off some goodies & have dinner with him & his wife, she ran late, so my son & I drove over to taco bell for drive through. On the way back we saw a group of 20+ teens walking past meijer's (kinda strange at 11pm at night). Just a note my son & family are not racist or bigots, we did notice that tyhe whole group was comprised mainly of 15-18 yr. old black teens. The whole group was heading east-bound with a heavily wooded section next to them on the south side of the street. Heading the opposite way about 1/2 of a block to the east, was 2 young white guys & a young female, after passing by , my son expressed concern & said he had a bad feeling about the situation, we drove another 1/2 mile & I had to turn around from feeling the same as he. We got back to the area within 5 minutes & saw 2 kids laying on the ground, 2 cars had just pulled up for help & of course no site of the group that had caused concern in the 1st place. I stopped , called the police & ambulance. We drove around the neigborhood abit after that to see if they would appear, as were around 7 police cars, it appears that they were waiting for the criminals to come out of the woods. I know this story is long, & this isnt the only one I have, car break-ins the vandalism, are all things many people have been experiencing here. I live not far from one of the catholic churches, I saw the group that stole the Jesus from St. Perpetua & vandalized the place. If any-one has any ideas of how to deal with this issue, ideas for neighborhood watches, Please reply. One last note, wouldnt the crime commited last night be considered a hate crime? & shouldnt we get the feds involved?

A very concerned citizen/tax-payer
Danny

Clarkston, MI

#2 Apr 12, 2008
I have seen many black males and females on case/elizabeth lake road. I had at least three try and take my care. I have video, 7 angels, will alarms and stress it has cost my family and I a great deal of money. We are getting ready to move away because of all the gang activity. Our home has lost value also. Very sad days.
Danny

Clarkston, MI

#3 Apr 12, 2008
I have seen many black males and females on case/elizabeth lake road. I had at least three try and take my car. I have video, 7 angels, will alarms and stress it has cost my family and I a great deal of money. We are getting ready to move away because of all the gang activity. Our home has lost value also. Very sad days.
Waterford_Native

San Francisco, CA

#4 Apr 15, 2008
I couldn't agree more with what you said. Personally, I don't know why we can't have those patrol officers worrying more about persons within the township rather than making money on speeding/traffic tickets. Instead of parking on the side of Pontiac Lake Rd. at 1:00am, how about running around the local neighborhoods to see what is going on. Lazy? Probably. Sleeping? Possibly. The funny thing is that I walked up on a cop in the neighborhood 3 weeks ago who was sitting just down the road, it was about 11:00 pm. I wasn't really sure what was going on, so I knocked on the window. I startled him so badly he could hardly talk. Now, maybe he was staking someone out, who knows, but, I do know that you should be awake at your job, I mean, if I were to fall asleep on my job, I would lose it. It's just my opinion that they should actually be doing their job. Funny part is, he was gone in about 5 minutes after I knocked on his window.
Todd J wrote:
I have lived in the township for over 15 yrs. & have seen alot of changes in our local population, more & more gangs of teens are prowling our streets at night. My wife & I just came back from petoskey last night after a few days of visiting relatives, we thought to stop in to our son's apartment off of pontiac lake rd. to drop off some goodies & have dinner with him & his wife, she ran late, so my son & I drove over to taco bell for drive through. On the way back we saw a group of 20+ teens walking past meijer's (kinda strange at 11pm at night). Just a note my son & family are not racist or bigots, we did notice that tyhe whole group was comprised mainly of 15-18 yr. old black teens. The whole group was heading east-bound with a heavily wooded section next to them on the south side of the street. Heading the opposite way about 1/2 of a block to the east, was 2 young white guys & a young female, after passing by , my son expressed concern & said he had a bad feeling about the situation, we drove another 1/2 mile & I had to turn around from feeling the same as he. We got back to the area within 5 minutes & saw 2 kids laying on the ground, 2 cars had just pulled up for help & of course no site of the group that had caused concern in the 1st place. I stopped , called the police & ambulance. We drove around the neigborhood abit after that to see if they would appear, as were around 7 police cars, it appears that they were waiting for the criminals to come out of the woods. I know this story is long, & this isnt the only one I have, car break-ins the vandalism, are all things many people have been experiencing here. I live not far from one of the catholic churches, I saw the group that stole the Jesus from St. Perpetua & vandalized the place. If any-one has any ideas of how to deal with this issue, ideas for neighborhood watches, Please reply. One last note, wouldnt the crime commited last night be considered a hate crime? & shouldnt we get the feds involved?
A very concerned citizen/tax-payer
Too Long in Waterford

Savannah, GA

#5 May 1, 2008
I have lived in Waterford Township for over 40 years. I live in the Pontiac Lake/Cass Lake Rds. area and am very aware of what is going in both Apartment complex's between M-59 and Scott Lake Rd. These apartment complex's have become ghettos and are very scary to be anywhere near them at night. I live in the neighborhood directly across Pontiac Lake Rd. from these apartments. I am not a racist, but I know my comments will be construed as such. I have black neighbors and they are a great family. I also have a black brother in law that I think the world of. However, it is simple to see what the problem is, low class and no class black people living in these complex's cannot or will not control their kids. The gangs of kids that are seen walking the streets all live in these complex's. They prey on people and cars who that may be in the complex to visit other people. They are out walking through the neighborhoods at all hours of the night and generally causing trouble. These kids walk down the middle of the neighborhood streets and will not move out of the way for traffic. Generally being loud, obnoxious and degrading the quality of life of what was once a great area to live in. You can say what you may, but I do not generally see gangs of 10, 15 or 20 white kids out doing the same thing. The citizens and police of Waterford need to act now before this situation gets any worse. We cannot continue to allow gangs of young punks to terrorize this great area. I would gladly volunteer to help man any neighborhood type watch group, night patrol etc. Also, Danny you are right about the Cass/Elizabeth Rd area and it comes from the complex at the corner of Cass and Cass/Elizabeth.
xLostlove

Clarkston, MI

#7 Jun 18, 2008
Ive Lived In Waterford.. Im Young.. a Teen.. And Even I Notice The Changes. Im Over By Mott Highschool. Alota Gangs Walk Around There, Bad Thing is I Walk To School. Run Into Them Everyday. But These Days It Always Seems Like Theres Another Gang On The Other Side Of The Street Pressuring You To Join For Protection. Our Area Is Getting Bad. And I Know It Will Get Worse.
MyOpinion

Kelso, WA

#9 Jul 11, 2008
OMG. TOO LONG IN WATERFORD. YOU ARE A RACIST!!! What about the white trash that live in some of the HOUSES in waterford? UNREAL. You say you are not a racist, but YOU ARE. Totally.

I've lived in waterford my whole life. I'm 46. My home is off Cass lake road, near the bridge that was just rebuilt. My home is in a decent area but we still have problems with WHITE kids roaming at night and being loud.

And what is your idea of black, low class? Black people that don't make the money you do? Shame on you. You are a total racist. Low class are posters such as you that are bigots.
Kelly
Frenchman

Ireland

#10 Jul 13, 2008
I'm really deceived about Ireland. I had hoped to see an homogene European people, but it s getting as in France. Black, arab, muslim people hate white and europe, believe me, I ve lived in Bordeaux the last 7 years, the situation is unthinkable...Europe wiil live a civil war before the next 15years. Don t mind if you say i"m racist. They're racist before me and white people in general.
newer waterford gang

Shelby, OH

#11 Nov 23, 2008
confirmed waterford area based gang called the "lotus'"..keep an eye out
Nuck the figgers

Waterford, MI

#12 Nov 24, 2008
Just run these maggots over on the side of the road, problem solved. Need to nuke the apartments on Pontiac Lake rd. from orbit before the cockroaches spread further west.
Way Beyond Rascism

Lansing, MI

#13 Dec 24, 2008
OK folks, I am an an engineer that believes in data. Data says it all, however some here, it would appear manipulate the interpretation of data. Instead of going into a rant on "white or black" or green for that matter!.......I wish someone (Maybe the WPD) should share the statistical data they compile annually. Everytime they make a report you can bet they check the boxes off,(Black, white or green). Then we could take the demographics by populous and determine the disperity, if there is any proportionately to incidents.(assign ownership) That will take the whole notion of being branded a rascist or bigot right out of the equation. I moved to Waterford to buy my first house in 1991 and raise my family in a nice and safe neighborhood. I am thankful my kids are grown now and do not have to attend the school system which is wrought with transients from the inner cities who proclaim they too are moving here for the same reasons. Fact is though, they simply exist in most cases within the community. They contribute not to the tax base, they are not in most cases active in the community other than their mere existense. I have seen my beautiful lakes region deteriorate right before my eyes, I have watched scurge crime flourish. It was not like this. Can someone please post the data on this site? I want to see the cold fact data, age, income, dwelling type of residence and yes RACE. The facts and only the facts will speak for themselves. I truly want to know where this data is. I can tell you this right now, less than 2.5% of wtfrd population is black, 83% dwell in apartment housing, 75% of those are on some sort of assistance which tells me they are not even employed. Those apartments represent a significant and off the chart requirement for police presence and visitation daily and they are not there just to patrol, they are there to arrest or investigate. Crime comes in all colors, but I bet when someone comes up with the actual dataset and post it here, many will realize a certain sector of society will seperate from the pack and claim the famed position as the leader. It is that simple. Crime is everywhere and in every color of society......but let's see the facts and get this forum out of the ditch and set it on a firm foundation of facts. I HAVE A VERY GOOD SENSE OF WHAT WILL BE FOUND. I am sure you do too, so let's quit hiding from factual data to determine our position. PS: I live right across the street from one of the dens of thieves that is often referred to in this posting site. I would love to put a sign up at the start of our street that puts these lower social forms (statitistically proven) on notice. It would read something like "STOP, Do you really want to enter this neighborhood, do you have reason to be here, do you have business in this area?" Then, should those scoundrels proceed to my house they will be greeted by my alarm system. My alarm system is comprised of a rocking chair on the front porch, 2 size 16 working mans boots an empty Jack Daniels bottle and empty shot gun shell casings strewn about. Should you opt to further your exploration into my house or property without invitation you can only imagine what reception awaits you.......and I will exercise my right to protect my pursuit of liberties and happiness. Nothing would make me happier that to spray someones brain matter into the ionosphere when they come a calling to violate my property or families safety. So if you want a great reception come on over, do it during daylight hours, do not snake around under the cover of darkness, be a man......walk right up and into my house located at 1079 Bielby in Waterford. Looking forward to seeing you soon.....NOT!
STATS STATS STATS

Lansing, MI

#14 Dec 24, 2008
Here ya go folks: The factual data/ forget rascism and bigotry statistics do not lie.
Link for first attachment:

www.semcog.org/Data/Apps/comprof/profile.cfm...

Link for second attachment: www.quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/26000.ht...

Crime + Race profiles by City / Township: http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/michloc.html
Large number of free online codes for cities and townships in Michigan ..... Searchable database of arrests by county/city, type of crime, age, race and sex ...
Waterford Township Arrest / Defense by Jurisdiction: http://www.state.mi.us/msp/cjic/ucrstats/Juri...

Arrest Totals - To retrieve total arrest information by crime, age, race and sex select the crime from the following lists and submit: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1645...

No document attached from this website: Waterford Township, MI PD: http://twp.waterford.mi.us/police/
(I couldnÂ’t get the sub-links to appear???)
Concerned

Clarkston, MI

#15 Feb 8, 2009
We need to be concerned as Waterford Residents and we need to do something about it. The police department is already overwhelmed and short staffed as it is so they are not going to be much help. The community is growing rapidly and this is why it is important to pass police mileages in the future. I am no way affiliated with the police department or their families but I want to feel protected where I live. On another note the schools are going down the tubes with drugs and violence and they are supposedly staffed with police officers in the school. Where are they in controlling these gangs and drugs in the schools. Waterford needs to send a message that they are not going to tolerate garbage in our community. Waterford is a great place to live and retire to and has everything you want and more and let's keep it that way.
Todd J wrote:
I have lived in the township for over 15 yrs. & have seen alot of changes in our local population, more & more gangs of teens are prowling our streets at night. My wife & I just came back from petoskey last night after a few days of visiting relatives, we thought to stop in to our son's apartment off of pontiac lake rd. to drop off some goodies & have dinner with him & his wife, she ran late, so my son & I drove over to taco bell for drive through. On the way back we saw a group of 20+ teens walking past meijer's (kinda strange at 11pm at night). Just a note my son & family are not racist or bigots, we did notice that tyhe whole group was comprised mainly of 15-18 yr. old black teens. The whole group was heading east-bound with a heavily wooded section next to them on the south side of the street. Heading the opposite way about 1/2 of a block to the east, was 2 young white guys & a young female, after passing by , my son expressed concern & said he had a bad feeling about the situation, we drove another 1/2 mile & I had to turn around from feeling the same as he. We got back to the area within 5 minutes & saw 2 kids laying on the ground, 2 cars had just pulled up for help & of course no site of the group that had caused concern in the 1st place. I stopped , called the police & ambulance. We drove around the neigborhood abit after that to see if they would appear, as were around 7 police cars, it appears that they were waiting for the criminals to come out of the woods. I know this story is long, & this isnt the only one I have, car break-ins the vandalism, are all things many people have been experiencing here. I live not far from one of the catholic churches, I saw the group that stole the Jesus from St. Perpetua & vandalized the place. If any-one has any ideas of how to deal with this issue, ideas for neighborhood watches, Please reply. One last note, wouldnt the crime commited last night be considered a hate crime? & shouldnt we get the feds involved?
A very concerned citizen/tax-payer

Since: Jan 09

Jacksonville, IL

#16 Feb 8, 2009
And, white gangs, biker and what have you put meth out on the streets, and do one hell of a job on the U.S. as a whole. As do illegal immigrants that are gang members from South America.
More than any black population. Those Waterford TEENAGERS are juvenile delinquents! Same thing that any other population has. Would love to see the stats on that!

Kids usually join gangs for acceptance, and consider each other family, until they realize the difference. Probably come from broken homes.
And from a place called "poverty". Excuse me, but there IS a big time unemployment factor going on here. Not everybody can find or have a job. And, yes the police really need to be more involved here, more so than sleeping on the job, or passing out speeding tickets. These teens are at a high risk for "other things" to come. And, they need help. What they are doing IS a CRY for help. It sounds like those apartment complexes and those other neighborhoods need to start neighborhood watch groups, for sure.

I forgot one more aspect of gang related stuff, like somebody put it, "peer pressure", and trying to be somebody that you are not.
Lotus

Detroit, MI

#17 Feb 12, 2009
I am hoping the Lotus Gang group referenced in post #11 from "newer waterford gang" is NOT around Lotus Lake. Give us a heads up with info about what area/subdivisions they are seen at. We have had our share of drug dealers and deadbeats men in their 40's, home all day and making trouble in the past on the northeast end of the lake. We certainly don't need more of that! Thanks for posting. Any information helps.
Bliss

Clarkston, MI

#18 Feb 13, 2009
Racist people in this forum, well I am White, I do not fall to the stereotype of gang members that people believe represent a whole race. Muslims are peaceful if you try and understand their religion properly that is by avoiding Fox News and any source that says Allah is a moon god with three daughters.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/guide.ht...
Take a look at the website above.
As far as black people... well come on white, asian, gang members exist as well.
"those Waterford TEENAGERS are juvenile delinquents!"
That is a Logical Fallacy by implying all teenagers in Waterford are juvenile delinquents.
As for those who have the opinions that smoking pot or doing drugs is the cause of violence, the idea that smoking pot causes violence and causes you to be lazy contradicts each other. Medical Marijuana is legal for a reason, It helps cancer patients, ADD, ADHD, AIDS/HIV patients, Alzheimers, Arthritis, Migranes, Cures pain etc.
Alcohol and Cigarettes have been proven to be the worst drugs anyone can consume. Marijuana has caused zero deaths as opposed to cigarettes, alcohol, heroin, cocaine etc causing deaths.
Bliss

Clarkston, MI

#19 Feb 13, 2009
Oh and for those claiming the Asians, Europeans, Middle Easterners, Africans and anything else hate the United States. They do not hate us, It is the governments that dislike the United States, and they have a reason to dislike the U.S. Government.

The past 8 years with George Bush causing the unconstitutional War in Iraq that has cause many civilian deaths, torturing innocents in Guantanamo bay, Abu Ghraib, the support of Zionist terrorism which has caused deaths in Gaza and other parts of the middle east including death of children and women, The economic issues (It effects there economy as well), The Patriot act (Giving up rights is in not patriotic), Illegal spying on U.S. citizens, The inability to have a lawyer when going to trial, the release of anthrax that came from withing the Pentagon created by someone in our own government.

President Obama has yet to fix anything, he is not a Muslim like Islamophobes claim, However the economy is not back to normal, Now fighting a war in Afghanistan, and he has yet to release the prisoners mostly innocents from Guantanamo bay and similar places. He has already broken several promises.

Since: Jan 09

Jacksonville, IL

#20 Feb 13, 2009
MyOpinion wrote:
OMG. TOO LONG IN WATERFORD. YOU ARE A RACIST!!! What about the white trash that live in some of the HOUSES in waterford? UNREAL. You say you are not a racist, but YOU ARE. Totally.
I've lived in waterford my whole life. I'm 46. My home is off Cass lake road, near the bridge that was just rebuilt. My home is in a decent area but we still have problems with WHITE kids roaming at night and being loud.
And what is your idea of black, low class? Black people that don't make the money you do? Shame on you. You are a total racist. Low class are posters such as you that are bigots.
Kelly
True words you speak! Just some more of the citizens for willful ignorance where ignorance is bliss!!! KKK and other groups are on the rise out of shear PARANOIA! Ya...are they so numb to what their own do..."white trash". Maybe different ethnic groups do the same dam thing, but have different ways of going about it.
On our Grand Rapids, MN site a couple of people were calling three Native Am. youth "garbage"!!!
I am so-called white, but I lived a number of years in South Phoenix, on the East side between Southern and Bowker on 24th St., and later 12thSt. If it wasn't so hot there I'd move back! I still have African Am. friends there that are like family. Whenever I talk to anybody from down there, it's like I just talked to them yesterday! No amount of years or miles makes any difference, we will always be friends.

The above people like to live in a little box or small world. Know not the truth and don't want to. It is them who are missing out. And, they will never know the rest of the story. Everybody has a history.
Minnesata Has Problems

Detroit, MI

#21 Feb 13, 2009
I lived in Minnesota. Seems you haven't looked very hard at the prejudices against neighbors that is going on under your nose. I venture Minnesota has just as much narrow minded opinions as the Pontiac/Waterford areas - likely more. I attribute it as so many people in southern Minnesota has so little opportunity to experience different cultures. Some barely had left their county much less their state. Kindest people on the planet but they sure didn't spend much time considering the world outside their reach. Waterford there is a bunch of different cultures that are living here for different reasons. Heck we had Ballywood, India here filming not to long ago.
No more lectures. Lets pass around what information we have on specific groups causing problems within the Township borders.
Olivia

Clinton Township, MI

#22 Aug 26, 2009
Narrow minded racists. When truth is spoken you often are called such names. We moved to Waterford in 1962 because it was quiet and uncrowded. It stayed nice for a long time, a country atmosphere with good schools and as safe and nice for kids to grow up as you were likely to find. Within the last few years the areas have gone downhill and I blame it partially on the apartments called Glengary and Village Green. When Glengary was first built it was a premier place to live but gradually the lesser lights of our community took over and now they are breeding grounds for blight. The idea of people living in other towns being able to send kids to school here even though they don't pay taxes in Waterford has filled the schools with thugs and bullies. Today our paper reports a bunch of business along Highland Rd and Pontiac Rd had windows and doors smashed in with chunks of concrete & rocks. No thievery, just malicious damage. The paper stated it is believed to be the work of local gangs, an un-thought of situation in years past when (OK, I will say it) the township was primarily white. PC be da**ed. Too bad we don't have the property protection of Texas' law...the right to shoot to kill if someone threatens your safety in your own home.

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