The Rise of GetEqual

There are 19 comments on the www.advocate.com story from Jun 2, 2010, titled The Rise of GetEqual . In it, www.advocate.com reports that:

Whatever you may think of it, the new grassroots direct action group GetEqual has the ambition - and the funding - to further agitate the political establishment.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.advocate.com.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1 Jun 2, 2010
I'd rather put my money into qualified positive communitiy outreach efforts, lobbyists and campaign coffers.

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#2 Jun 2, 2010
Finally, they're learning stuff and doing some training and research before acting, not after. Maybe some of them have earned their grown up boy pants.

Keep it up and keep focused.
CHAS

Breckenridge, CO

#3 Jun 2, 2010
Sign up at getequal.org
HRC has nice dinners and it guarantees the same old same old.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#4 Jun 2, 2010
snyper wrote:
I'd rather put my money into qualified positive communitiy outreach efforts, lobbyists and campaign coffers.
We need both forms of action. HRC et al finally brokered the compromise that passed the Senate committee and the full House. Their diplomatic resources were essential.

But it wasn't getting done until Get Equal started receiving coverage that embarrassed our so-called friends. Of course they were angry! You'd be angry too if someone you considered a friend started calling attention to your fickleness and other short-comings.

I am so happy these people arrived on the scene.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#5 Jun 12, 2010
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
We need both forms of action. HRC et al finally brokered the compromise that passed the Senate committee and the full House. Their diplomatic resources were essential.
But it wasn't getting done until Get Equal started receiving coverage that embarrassed our so-called friends. Of course they were angry! You'd be angry too if someone you considered a friend started calling attention to your fickleness and other short-comings.
I am so happy these people arrived on the scene.
Sorry my friend, but that is a Post Hoc ergo Propter Hoc fallacy. Things started to move when the legislative schedule got to it, and was part of ALL the bargaining around the entire healthcare haggles.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#6 Jun 12, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry my friend, but that is a Post Hoc ergo Propter Hoc fallacy. Things started to move when the legislative schedule got to it, and was part of ALL the bargaining around the entire healthcare haggles.
It's hard to know what was really happening behind all those closed doors, but the public statement strongly indicated that DADT was going to be pushed off the 2010 agenda. One statement after the other lessened the changes that we were going to see a push this year.

Then all the sudden it was practically a done-deal. You might want to check with Aubrey Sarvis about his view before you dismiss the work of Get Equal et al.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#7 Jun 12, 2010
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
It's hard to know what was really happening behind all those closed doors, but the public statement strongly indicated that DADT was going to be pushed off the 2010 agenda. One statement after the other lessened the changes that we were going to see a push this year.
Then all the sudden it was practically a done-deal. You might want to check with Aubrey Sarvis about his view before you dismiss the work of Get Equal et al.
When you do not want the opposition to rally it's considerable forces, you downplay and minimize. Politics has much to do with triage, as well, on ever so many levels.

Ever see "Amazing Grace: The William Wilberforce Story" ? It's about his lifelong battle to abolish the slave trade in the British Empire. If you haven't seen it I recommend it highly especially for the value of his last, backbreaking, strategem.

The issues remains far from a "done deal". The ripples of the military approach to the topic will only be seen in the next recruiting/re-enlistment cycle in the face of the Afghan and growing Korean situations. November, and the serious potential for our issues to be swamped in the backlash on other fronts, that things are far from settled indeed.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#8 Jun 12, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
When you do not want the opposition to rally it's considerable forces, you downplay and minimize. Politics has much to do with triage, as well, on ever so many levels.
Ever see "Amazing Grace: The William Wilberforce Story" ? It's about his lifelong battle to abolish the slave trade in the British Empire. If you haven't seen it I recommend it highly especially for the value of his last, backbreaking, strategem.
The issues remains far from a "done deal". The ripples of the military approach to the topic will only be seen in the next recruiting/re-enlistment cycle in the face of the Afghan and growing Korean situations. November, and the serious potential for our issues to be swamped in the backlash on other fronts, that things are far from settled indeed.
I've never heard of Amazing Grace, but it sounds interesting.

We will never know exactly how Obama, Reid, and Pelosi played their hands. For myself, however, I cannot recall a civil rights battle that didn't involve a little civil disobedience. I don't think that people chaining themselves to the White House fence pissed off anyone except those who were embarrassed by it.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9 Jun 12, 2010
The way I see it, it was GetEqual's persistence in drawing attention back to the issue with their very public acts of civil disobedience and their confrontations with Obama at a number of events that forced the admin into an either sh*t or get off the pot position. They probably could held off the ever so polite HRC until after the midterms, but GetEqual threw a necessary monkey wrench into that plan. The push for the compromise would never had come about without their efforts...

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#10 Jun 13, 2010
Rick in Kansas wrote:
The way I see it, it was GetEqual's persistence in drawing attention back to the issue with their very public acts of civil disobedience and their confrontations with Obama at a number of events that forced the admin into an either sh*t or get off the pot position. They probably could held off the ever so polite HRC until after the midterms, but GetEqual threw a necessary monkey wrench into that plan. The push for the compromise would never had come about without their efforts...
They just ride in and grandstand on the coattails of much less self-aggrandising, more quiet laborers. The influence of the multitudes of PFlag families, and their millions in campaign donations, ring far more loudly in D.C. ears; their stories touch far more hearts than some reltive johnny-come-latelies who make some noise then try to take credit for others' years of patient work.

I am not embarrased by such antics. I can see their use from time to time. I am worried how they become propaganda fodder, and serve as rallying points for our opposition.

"Why don't you go buy a ticket to the event of someone who doesn't already agree with you." - President Obama.

(and I might add: "... instead of pissing off the press ande people you want to support and carry your message to a wider audience. Give them GOOD news, convincing news to print and to carry.")

I'm really looking forward to results of tens of thousands of hours spent in educations, precedents, evidence gathering, expertise and arguments ... years of lives, really ... that have gone into the preparations for the closing arguments we will be hearing in the closing arguments to the Prop8 challenge in just a few days.

I imagine that the coattail riders will want to take credit for all the law and academic degrees that have gone into them as well. If they make enough grandstanding noise and pretty enough signs, they might just succeed in getting some fools to believe so.

Again, there was more absolute and incontrovertible POSITIVE effect from the silence of laying out the quilt, and the bare speaking of names, than in any obstreperous noise by the histrionics of others, though they don't seem to understand that, do they? The quilt softened, moved, and opened hearts. The ranters hardened them.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#11 Jun 13, 2010
snyper wrote:
(see above)
The clear lack of success by the Democratic majorities in Congress on any number of issues (and not just our own) has put their control in jeopardy in the upcoming election. Our reality has become one of, if we don't get our issues off the administration's back burners now, they may get taken off the stove entirely if the R's take control of either chamber or both, which as of right now, is a very real possibility. We're too small of a minority, both in terms of actual numbers and political clout financially, to rely on behind the scenes lobbying alone, because there is simply no denying the fact that for most members of Congress, telling us to f*ck off certainly won't hurt them and sadly, may even help them. You can denigrate them if you want, but the tactics of groups like GetEqual are absolutely necessary, because confrontation can open a lot of doors that were otherwise being closed in our face. While ending DA/DT enjoys widespread public support, it's not an issue that's going to win anyone an election, so in terms of priorities, it needed a GetEqual shove to get it even discussed, let alone voted on. The lobbying groups have their place, but they needed more than just our money and our emails, etc. to get our issues up the pecking order and that's where GetEqual is going to be vital...

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12 Jun 14, 2010
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>The clear lack of success by the Democratic majorities in Congress on any number of issues (and not just our own) has put their control in jeopardy in the upcoming election. Our reality has become one of, if we don't get our issues off the administration's back burners now, they may get taken off the stove entirely if the R's take control of either chamber or both, which as of right now, is a very real possibility. We're too small of a minority, both in terms of actual numbers and political clout financially, to rely on behind the scenes lobbying alone, because there is simply no denying the fact that for most members of Congress, telling us to f*ck off certainly won't hurt them and sadly, may even help them. You can denigrate them if you want, but the tactics of groups like GetEqual are absolutely necessary, because confrontation can open a lot of doors that were otherwise being closed in our face. While ending DA/DT enjoys widespread public support, it's not an issue that's going to win anyone an election, so in terms of priorities, it needed a GetEqual shove to get it even discussed, let alone voted on. The lobbying groups have their place, but they needed more than just our money and our emails, etc. to get our issues up the pecking order and that's where GetEqual is going to be vital...
The backlash we must prepare for will be that brought about by the cohesion powered by the fear and anger of our opponents; and that only aided by histrionic action.

I agree that timing is crucial. We are running out of it. We are facing an Amendment to the Constitution against us. It isn't discussed openly, but it's there. If we make those who support us un-re-electable, we will have brought it upon ourselves. DOMA, established constitutionally, will invalidate decades of court cases. In their election bids, our opponents will gladly support the enacting of such a measure for the simple reason that it COSTS NOTHING to do so, something that stands in the way of almost every other promise they could try to fulfill.

We need to actively and civilizedly support our candidates, and especially make ourselves humanly visible to our families, neighbors and community to make it harder for them to support the radical opposition which is itself riding into power on the coattails of economic problems ... as did a certain German party back in the '30s. Berlin and other large cities in Germany also had a period of great gay acceptance just prior to their backlash.

Our opponents are like opportunistic infections, using and building upon the very fear and aversion engendered by the unwise actions of many of our ersatz supporters.

There are specific times when direct actions make tactical sense in a larger strategy. This isn't one of them.

These people are political loose cannon.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#13 Jun 14, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
The backlash we must prepare for will be that brought about by the cohesion powered by the fear and anger of our opponents; and that only aided by histrionic action.
I agree that timing is crucial. We are running out of it. We are facing an Amendment to the Constitution against us. It isn't discussed openly, but it's there. If we make those who support us un-re-electable, we will have brought it upon ourselves. DOMA, established constitutionally, will invalidate decades of court cases. In their election bids, our opponents will gladly support the enacting of such a measure for the simple reason that it COSTS NOTHING to do so, something that stands in the way of almost every other promise they could try to fulfill.
We need to actively and civilizedly support our candidates, and especially make ourselves humanly visible to our families, neighbors and community to make it harder for them to support the radical opposition which is itself riding into power on the coattails of economic problems ... as did a certain German party back in the '30s. Berlin and other large cities in Germany also had a period of great gay acceptance just prior to their backlash.
Our opponents are like opportunistic infections, using and building upon the very fear and aversion engendered by the unwise actions of many of our ersatz supporters.
There are specific times when direct actions make tactical sense in a larger strategy. This isn't one of them.
These people are political loose cannon.
You talk of fear and backlash. These are real, but they are caused by the mere fact that we are making progress. Lt. Choi chaining himself to the White House fence is not stoking fear and loathing in anyone. When Congress actually votes to repeal DADT and the military lifts the ban, then the fear and loating that is already there will come to the surface. But it won't be caused by constituents sitting in Nancy Pelosi's office nor soldiers chained to fences (as long as they aren't chained against their wills).

But Choi did get us some much-needed publicity. Average Americans don't even understand how DADT works, if they even know that it exists. THe country is with us on this. Publicity is good.

How much coverage would the Human Rights Council meeting have gotten if not for the protests outside? Even in elementary school, I learned that stories involve conflict. Without conflict, there is no story, and no newspapers are sold.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#14 Jun 14, 2010
The reality is that we have been experiencing backlash ever since the Mattachine Society staged the world's politest protests with a dress code, simply because we are demanding something that far too many in our society don't want us to have, respect as human beings and equal treatment under the law. We'd experience it even if we limited our quest to humbly kowtowing ourselves to those in power quietly and unobtrusively begging for recognition. Reactions to what you call "histrionic action" are nothing more than an excuse for what they'd be doing anyways. They will be fearful of us and angry at us whether we engage in confrontational acts or limited ourselves to lobbying and campaigning for candidates who support equal rights.

We have neither the time nor the power to simply rely on "civilizedly" supporting candidates who are naturally inclined to support us, there are just far too many places in this country where being openly hostile to us is a political plus. If there was ever a time to push the envelope and engage in direct confrontation to force our issues it is now. Lobbying and campaigning won't bring issues like ENDA, UAFA and a DOMA repeal to the forefront of any but our most ardent supporters issues lists. We need to be in the face of those who are hemming and hawing on these issues and letting them know that we aren't going to be polite and respectful little queers until they get off the stick and do something...

snyper wrote:
The backlash we must prepare for will be that brought about by the cohesion powered by the fear and anger of our opponents; and that only aided by histrionic action.
I agree that timing is crucial. We are running out of it. We are facing an Amendment to the Constitution against us. It isn't discussed openly, but it's there. If we make those who support us un-re-electable, we will have brought it upon ourselves. DOMA, established constitutionally, will invalidate decades of court cases. In their election bids, our opponents will gladly support the enacting of such a measure for the simple reason that it COSTS NOTHING to do so, something that stands in the way of almost every other promise they could try to fulfill.
We need to actively and civilizedly support our candidates, and especially make ourselves humanly visible to our families, neighbors and community to make it harder for them to support the radical opposition which is itself riding into power on the coattails of economic problems ... as did a certain German party back in the '30s. Berlin and other large cities in Germany also had a period of great gay acceptance just prior to their backlash.
Our opponents are like opportunistic infections, using and building upon the very fear and aversion engendered by the unwise actions of many of our ersatz supporters.
There are specific times when direct actions make tactical sense in a larger strategy. This isn't one of them.
These people are political loose cannon.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#15 Jun 14, 2010
" ... Lt. Choi chaining himself to the White House fence is not stoking fear and loathing in anyone ... "

You don't hear the talk around the bases, married quarters and fundie churches ... and they ALL vote, either in hidebound lockstep or reactionary fears and ignorance.

Choi hurt us with those, as ActUp did with the RCs.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#16 Jun 14, 2010
snyper wrote:
" ... Lt. Choi chaining himself to the White House fence is not stoking fear and loathing in anyone ... "
You don't hear the talk around the bases, married quarters and fundie churches ... and they ALL vote, either in hidebound lockstep or reactionary fears and ignorance.
Choi hurt us with those, as ActUp did with the RCs.
Again, Choi did not threaten them in any way. They feel threatened by us, generally. Choi merely drew attention, which brought their overwhelming bigotry to the surface. This was inevitable as the DADT repeal moves forward.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#17 Jun 15, 2010
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, Choi did not threaten them in any way. They feel threatened by us, generally. Choi merely drew attention, which brought their overwhelming bigotry to the surface. This was inevitable as the DADT repeal moves forward.
Yes, they feel threatened by change. And since we are still governed by the votes of our people, their fears can be used as a rallying cry to the ballot ... just as they were here in California. It's startling how many people will vote against someone, not on the bases of the validity of their position but merely upon whether or not they "like" them.

Choi was well intentioned, if misguided, as are most who take an ad hoc approach to a delicate political process.

Politics is not just getting some judges and legislators to decide and vote with us. It is also getting the people to support those decisions. Failure to do so has repercussions that tend to be as reactionary and ill-advised as are bull-in-a-china-shop tactics.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#18 Jun 15, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, they feel threatened by change. And since we are still governed by the votes of our people, their fears can be used as a rallying cry to the ballot ... just as they were here in California. It's startling how many people will vote against someone, not on the bases of the validity of their position but merely upon whether or not they "like" them.
Choi was well intentioned, if misguided, as are most who take an ad hoc approach to a delicate political process.
Politics is not just getting some judges and legislators to decide and vote with us. It is also getting the people to support those decisions. Failure to do so has repercussions that tend to be as reactionary and ill-advised as are bull-in-a-china-shop tactics.
Here is where I argue that we've been far more effective making our points to elected officials than we have to the populace at large. In Massachusetts, for instance, we were able to convince 75% of the legislature not to forward a definition of marriage amendment to the electorate. At the same time, if was not [and probably is not] certain whether such a vote could pass with 50% of the electorate.

Why is this? Because it's relatively easy to focus attention on legislators and make your case. It's their full time job (in Massachusetts, anyway) to know how the law affects their constituents. Legislatures are full of people who personally agree with the goals of the GLBT community, but who are afraid of the rabid, well-organized groups who oppose us.

The best work we have done as a community is to talk to our family, friends, and co-workers about ourselves and our families. This has resulted in a complete turn-around in attitudes of the majority of Americans.

But most of them spend little time thinking about our issues, if they are aware at all. The anti-gay groups are already publicizing the issue and lobbying their congressmen. There are many more of them than us. We need desperately to make our friends aware of the issues and to motivate them to stand up for us.

Where Rick and I disagree with you is that (1) our enemies are in anyway more energized by Choi's peaceful and non-threatening protests or that (2) our friends are in any way embarrassed or incensed at his protests. He did not threaten anyone; he did not harm any property; he did not even disrupt traffic. All he did was successfully call attention to the plight he and many other soldiers face.

Yes, he stirred up the pot and awakened some dormant homophobia. But you simply can no achieve change without stirring the pot.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#19 Jun 18, 2010
Your positions have merit, I grant, but seem just a tad precious in light of what I am encountering as a growing trend. What they discuss, when the topic comes up at all, is what they have been given in the media TO discuss. We aren't managing the media properly, and Choi and GE aren't helping.

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