$2.5B estimate for Kobayashi's mass-t...

$2.5B estimate for Kobayashi's mass-transit plan - News

There are 350 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Oct 15, 2008, titled $2.5B estimate for Kobayashi's mass-transit plan - News. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

Mayoral candidate Ann Kobayashi released details yesterday of her new mass-transit plan, saying it would be cheaper and more effective at reducing traffic congestion than Mayor Mufi Hannemann's proposed rail ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

First Prev
of 18
Next Last
Tsarbomba

Corona, CA

#1 Oct 15, 2008
She said. "In this plan, it uses the parking lanes of King and Beretania during rush hour and that's all. This is elevated. The other wasn't. There's a big difference."

Huh? Last time I checked, the parking lanes of King and Beretania are not elevated unless it's invisible. So what is she trying to say? Build elevated lanes on top of King and Beretania? This plan is lacking details and will cost far more than $2.5 billion.
maestro

Kihei, HI

#2 Oct 15, 2008
The primary problem with Ann Kobayashi's plan is financing. Her plan does not qualify for the transit funds generated through the half percent county surcharge. Local funds are needed in order for the federal government to consider financing part of the project.Somebody should have reminded Ann about this earlier, either she is not getting good advice or she isn't listening.
Cat Manapua

Saint George, UT

#3 Oct 15, 2008
Top 12 Reasons This Plan Is Worth Review and Consideration:

1. Mufster says he is not sure Ann's plan will attract Fed money. That's fair. But, meanwhile, Mufster keeps lying to voters about how his Train To Nowhere is "almost guaranteed" getting Fed dollars.

2. Mufster keeps telling us that the City did a thorough Alternatives Analysis. So how come this alternative was not explored in the $10,000,000 study? Why do we get this with only a couple of weeks to go? What other alternatives are out there?

3. Makes sense that this plan will do more to actually relieve congetsion. Mufster's plan will only help 5% of commuters.This actually helps drivers and riders too.

4. Under $2.5 in 2008 dollars! A real price tag. Where's Mufster's updated costs - you know, the 2008 ones? Oh yeah, they are being buried in the draft EIS in a hide the salami move that assures no scrutiny before a vote.

5. Notice that all the Muffie Puppets attack on the basis of politics. Not one Puppet asks "what is best for the Honolulu taxpayer?" Time to focus on the issue, not the re-election. Enough with "blame it on Harris" already!

6. Ann will actually be around when the project starts. Mufster says he will jump ship and June Jones the place the 2 years.

7. This plan can start right away and will start to reduce congestion right away. The Mufster' Ego Train does nothing for years and years. Garrans ball barrans a decade-long project will get killed in mid-stream with no benefit only cost.

8. Steel on steel is so 19th century. No flexibility to adapt as new technologies emerge. If hydrogen or electric or other smart, eco-sensitive cars take off, this plan can accommodate!

9. The commute times are pretty darn good and don't mandate that commuters jump through hoops to get to work. You know...walk/drive/bus to station, take train, walk/ride/drive to work, and then reverse at the end of the day.

10. This plan puts traffic on roads,not on humongous elevated tracks and pylons with trains screaming by every 3 minutes 20hours a day. Imagine...using existing right of ways means less people and businesses getting evicted and less eminent domain.

11. This NOT a ploy for transit oriented development! YAY! It is actually an attempt to solve a traffic problem.

12. The route reflects where people actually travel. No Salt Lake horse manure. It can be expanded later to include Ewa Beach and other hot spots and already includes UH, a key location.

Here's the deal:

Regardless of who you like as Mayor, first KILL RAIL! Then we can demand time to do a good study of this and other alternatives.
hesus

Berkeley, IL

#4 Oct 15, 2008
WTF! Her plan takes no (or very few) cars off of the streets. How does this alleviate parking, congestion and emissions problems.

I don't give a crap if it's $2.5B or $4B, just do something that makes sense and do it NOW!
former local boy

Denton, TX

#5 Oct 15, 2008
While I think you both make good points, I feel the main point of mass transit is to reduce the amount of transportation on the roadways, reduce carbon emissions, and improve the environment. Also, mass transit creates hundreds of jobs as well as improving the local economy of all it's station areas with the foot traffic that is generated. Ann's plan will not create any of those positives and instead have a negative effect in so many ways: more pollution, more cars on the road, doesn't alleviate the biggest problem on O'ahu - bottle-necking, no added jobs once construction is complete, more polution. Rail mass transit is O'ahu's ONLY option for cutting traffic and reducing the number of cars on the road! We are the only major city in the country (and really the world) without a mass transit system! It's time to modernize!
Two dollars for my plan

Honolulu, HI

#7 Oct 15, 2008
"Her plan would cost $2.5 billion, as opposed to Hannemann's projected cost of $4 billion, to build a 15-mile elevated highway beginning at the H-1 and H-2 freeway merge in Waipio to downtown Honolulu."
It must be lots of fun to just make up numbers and have idiot reporters repeat them as if they were facts. The SB is such a rag.

Since: Dec 07

Kapaa, HI

#8 Oct 15, 2008
I prefer this "half-baked" idea over the rail ripoff, particularly if we will get double the federal funding.
kailua resident

Holualoa, HI

#9 Oct 15, 2008
former local boy wrote:
While I think you both make good points, I feel the main point of mass transit is to reduce the amount of transportation on the roadways, reduce carbon emissions, and improve the environment. Also, mass transit creates hundreds of jobs as well as improving the local economy of all it's station areas with the foot traffic that is generated. Ann's plan will not create any of those positives and instead have a negative effect in so many ways: more pollution, more cars on the road, doesn't alleviate the biggest problem on O'ahu - bottle-necking, no added jobs once construction is complete, more polution. Rail mass transit is O'ahu's ONLY option for cutting traffic and reducing the number of cars on the road! We are the only major city in the country (and really the world) without a mass transit system! It's time to modernize!
Ann Kukaiyashi isn't a visionist - obviously. Cars are an invention of the 20th century. It's now the 21st century, and time to proceed into the future. Gas is getting expensive, because it'll also be a thing of the past.
KVboy

Hilo, HI

#10 Oct 15, 2008
And where are we going to park when we get downtown? Tunnels? Hasn't she ever heard of the "Big Dig" in Boston that was waaaay beyond budget? Have you ever tried to dig a tunnel in sand? This proves Kobayashi has a no vision for this island.
Tsarbomba

Corona, CA

#11 Oct 15, 2008
Funny how the main anti-rail argument before was that rail would cost lots of $$$ and the HOT peeps kept raving that HOT will cost little to zero taxpayer dollars. Now they're all good with a "cheaper" plan that still costs in the billions; unverified at $2.5 billion and unlikely given the wish list of double decking Nimitz, tunnels, underpasses, etc. KITV even puts it at $3 billion.

Ann was late with her plan unveiling, she said last week and now we get it later. Even with the delayed unveiling, we have little in details.

-What kind of service is bus rapid in the King and Beretania area?
-What routes and stations are the express buses from Leeward? What is the schedule? What is the cost to ride?
-Why no park and rides if Ann believes in mass transit?
-Where do we have space to widen the H1 shoulder lanes?
-How will enforcement of zipper lanes happen considering currently, it doesn't happen and the main reason given was lack of a place to pull cars over. Does this mean it's actually much wider than 3 lanes?
Cat Manapua

Saint George, UT

#14 Oct 15, 2008
kailua resident wrote:
<quoted text>
Ann Kukaiyashi isn't a visionist - obviously. Cars are an invention of the 20th century. It's now the 21st century, and time to proceed into the future. Gas is getting expensive, because it'll also be a thing of the past.
Whereas trains are an invention of the 18th century and we need to build a new OIL fired power plant to run it.
Ramsay

Fresno, CA

#15 Oct 15, 2008
The Kobayashi road plan is a no-winner! You can't build more road capacity and expect to solve anything. What always seem to happen is that the congestion just grows larger to take up the additional space.

What Honolulu needs is a rail rapid transit system, and it seems close to getting one. Moving people is far more efficient than moving vehicles!
E Z Way

San Diego, CA

#16 Oct 15, 2008
Tsarbomba wrote:
Ann was late with her plan unveiling, she said last week and now we get it later. Even with the delayed unveiling, we have little in details.
-1) What kind of service is bus rapid in the King and Beretania area?
-2) What routes and stations are the express buses from Leeward? What is the schedule? What is the cost to ride?
-3) Why no park and rides if Ann believes in mass transit?
-4) Where do we have space to widen the H1 shoulder lanes?
-5) How will enforcement of zipper lanes happen considering currently, it doesn't happen and the main reason given was lack of a place to pull cars over. Does this mean it's actually much wider than 3 lanes?
1) It is probably BRT on grade only on King and Beretania. I think the word "elevated" is a misprint.
2) Express buses would serve the many (about 15)communities in West and Central Oahu with a 15 minute depart schedule according to KHVH news Jodie Leong. Cost is $2.00 or monthly bus pass, no different from bus fares in other parts of Oahu.
3) Minimal, is any, parking areas in each community required as express buses would make a loop in each community before proceeding to downtown non-stop,l 55 mph. Remember, this is during peak travel times only. Bus schedules would revert to normal at other times.
4) The EZ Way cost is higher to allow widening of the existing shoulder lanes for buses: on exising land if available or cantilevered if land is not available. Don't believe the EZ Way route is 15 miles, measures closer to lesss than 11 miles from H-1/H-2 merge to Hotel St/ Alakea St.
5) Two Zipper Lanes and one bus lane will start at the H-1/H-2 merge on separate, elevated three-lanes (with shoulders) It should be easy for police to cite violators on the separate EZ way. Only green cars, buses and car/van pools (probably 2 (TBD)occupants and higher) will be allowed on the EZ Way.
Big J-Hawaii Kai

United States

#17 Oct 15, 2008
Durn, isn't anyone reading either of the newspapers? The cities own hired experts have stated that this heavy fixed-rail will "WILL DO LITTLE, IF ANYTHING, TO REDUCE OUR TRAFFIC CONGESTION." Of course I can't blame the readers for this oversight, as the Hannemann administration keeps touting that traffic congestion will be reduced with heavy fixed-rail. Sounds like they're not reading the papers or listening to their million dollar experts either.
E Z Way

San Diego, CA

#18 Oct 15, 2008
Tsarbomba wrote:
-What kind of service is bus rapid in the King and Beretania area?
BRT info...http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Bus_rapid_transit
E Z Way

San Diego, CA

#19 Oct 15, 2008
Ramsay wrote:
The Kobayashi road plan is a no-winner! You can't build more road capacity and expect to solve anything. What always seem to happen is that the congestion just grows larger to take up the additional space.
What Honolulu needs is a rail rapid transit system, and it seems close to getting one. Moving people is far more efficient than moving vehicles!
The problem with the $7.0 Billion rail is that the rail can carry only 6000 commuters (4000 standees, 2000 seated) per hour. Yet the demand is 15,000 commuters per hour, which obviously cannot fit into a 6000 per hour rail.

Ann's EZ Way can accommodate more than the 15,000 commuters per hour projected in the year 2030 per the city AA report. Plus travel would be non-stop, 55 mph from each community to downtown, with exit ramps to major work areas - Pearl Harbor, H-2 to Kaneohe, Airport, Kalihi, etc., reversible commute on the same EZ Way in the pm.
Bumpercrop

Wailuku, HI

#20 Oct 15, 2008
Any idea that is automobile based is so old. Cars are actually metal dinosaurs and sure to go that way in the future. Oahu is staying in the past if it keeps catering to the metal dinosaurs. Her plan is so old, just like she is. Actually, is she too old to be the mayor? Or just old-fashioned, old school, old thinking? Just say NO NO NO. Build the train now, it should have been done already. Train is the future.
E Z Way

San Diego, CA

#21 Oct 15, 2008
Two dollars for my plan wrote:
"Her plan would cost $2.5 billion, as opposed to Hannemann's projected cost of $4 billion, to build a 15-mile elevated highway beginning at the H-1 and H-2 freeway merge in Waipio to downtown Honolulu."
It must be lots of fun to just make up numbers and have idiot reporters repeat them as if they were facts. The SB is such a rag.
PLEASE read the Honolulu A.A. transit report from Nov. 2006 by Parsons Brinkerhoff on transit cost.

-Section 5, Table 5-1
Capital Cost ESTIMATES for rail:(2006 dollars)

The full route, Kalaeloa, Kamokila, Airport, to a Waikiki branch-
is ($6.075 BILLION)$6,075,000,000 billion!

Then go to Section 5, Table 5-3: The Annual Operating & Maintenance Costs (2006 dollars) and add $2.178 BILLION (this is only over 8 years of operation & maintenance costs)

Table 5-3 shows $83.1 MILLION, per year, for operation & maintenance costs for the fixed guideway, every year.

Table 5-3 also shows $189.2 MILLION, per year, for operation & maintenance costs for the the bus, every year.
If added together you get a total of $272.3 Million PER YEAR for operation & maintenance costs for the the rail & bus, every year.

You must add this cost to the total transit build cost of $6.075 billion.

Now add $2.178 BILLION for 8 years of operation & maintenance cost, plus $6.075 billion to build the transit=$8.253 Billion

$8.253 Billion is in 2006 dollars!
Kam

Kailua, HI

#23 Oct 15, 2008
Cars are not going away. They are a part of the american life. But they will get better. Google the Avion. It is a car that is getting over 100 miles per gallon. It's test runs were published just last week and it set a new world record of 113 miles per gallon.
Tsarbomba

Corona, CA

#24 Oct 15, 2008
E Z Way wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with the $7.0 Billion rail is that the rail can carry only 6000 commuters (4000 standees, 2000 seated) per hour. Yet the demand is 15,000 commuters per hour, which obviously cannot fit into a 6000 per hour rail.
What problem? The rail can easily increase the current 6000 capacity by 50% to 9000 by adding cars to each train. In addition, this does not reflect the option of increasing frequency on the line. This has been discussed and pointed out to you before on AA pg2-15. Your repeated attempts to provide misinformation is a travesty to the public. The capacity with Ann's plan is only uni-directional so overall capacity is actually inferior in terms of gross numbers.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 18
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Waipio Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What Hawaii is really like. (Jan '08) 1 hr District 1 681
The Muslim World is Broken (Sep '15) 1 hr district 1 shower... 730
Fukushima nuclear spill affects HI? (Aug '13) 2 hr District 1 457
Trump or Hillary 3 hr Leeward Outlier 112
Outing the Main Troll on the Honolulu Topix Forum 10 hr district 1 shower... 30
Would you like to be a moderator on your own fo... 15 hr Michelle is a man 76
CCW Saves Lives, Again Fri Michelle is a man 2

Waipio Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Waipio Mortgages