Governor to hold 'talk story' on Turt...

Governor to hold 'talk story' on Turtle Bay purchase

There are 29 comments on the The Honolulu Advertiser story from Feb 10, 2008, titled Governor to hold 'talk story' on Turtle Bay purchase. In it, The Honolulu Advertiser reports that:

Number of vehicles H-1 Freeway was built to handle per hour 10,960 Actual average vehicles per hour in 2003 17,209 2030 forecast vehicles per hour with transit system 18,049* 2030 forecast vehicles per hour ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Honolulu Advertiser.

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Lets do the math

Kapaa, HI

#1 Feb 10, 2008
Transit it will only take 840 cars off the road per hour in 2030. This is less than 5% of the cars.

So what would the congestion be like with HOT lanes? I think they could handle more than 840 cars per hour. More importantly they would get the cars off the surface streets faster which is where alot of the time is lost.

Toyota is looking to make more hybrid and electric cars in the future. Other companies will follow. Subsidize the cost of these with the tax increases so everybody can go green, even when they drive in the country.

United States

#2 Feb 10, 2008
Hot Lanes DON'T yield benefits for land owners/developers at station stops

Why on earth would politicians be interested in them? Hello??? Duh!!!

United States

#3 Feb 10, 2008
making a hybrid/carpool only, two lane elevated hotlane system --- just makes too much sense

but since when have Hawaii people EVER demanded common sense from leaders

Ewa Beach, HI

#4 Feb 10, 2008
For $3,000,000,000 you can have a 2 level 4 lane highway built underground and under the ocean from Ewa to downtown. Give or take a 1/2 billion. They did it in Malaysia for a 1/2 billion for 6 miles under a city.

Makawao, HI

#5 Feb 10, 2008
Rail is still the best option when all angles are taken into consideration. It is the best enviromentally friendly option (unless we mandate al cars sold in Hawaii are hybrids, it provides a transportation option, and it confines urban sprawl. And if demand is higher than anticipated, its easy to add to the vehicles running on it.
If we dedicated lanes to hybrids only, you cannot imagine the uproar from the peple in gridlock watching empty, unutilized lanes. They would vote out everyone who voted for it. If you make it toll dependenet, you favor rich people. The only way to do it would be by lottery. And that just seems absurd
gerry from ohio

Cleveland, OH

#6 Feb 10, 2008
i have family in oahu we make a trip at least once a year, i have seen the trafic problems i cant imagine dealing with it every day but i think the transit system is a start, why not use the waterways and the ports just a thought maybe this is a way to use the super ferry or start a taxi service with small craft i know it might take some hybrid engine for boats ,at the very least encourage the tourist to use this transportation

Providence, RI

#8 Feb 10, 2008
Building infrastructure to accomodate more cars is, for the last time, not the answer. I would still support rail if it was only projected to improve traffic by one percent. Any reduction is good in my eyes and worth the cost.

Hilo, HI

#9 Feb 10, 2008
People and the Mayor don't get it. While "alternative" is the term that might convince Oahu residents to buy-in to rail to support it, rail in any city where it is a successful, or in terms relative to their respective cities a fixture of transportation infrastructure, rail **is** the major mode of transportation or at least prioritized by government as the ideal form, it is never the "alternative."
For example, Boston and New York City have quite substantial mass-transit infrastructure that is contrasted by generally-high driver's license fees ($50 and $65 approx., respectively) whereas California's mass-transit solutions are all mediocre in use at best (save for perhaps San Francisco), and guess what? Driver's licenses in California cost just $28.
We pay less than $25 for more than 5 years on a driver's license.
I'd say government has not said to its citizens that driving shouldn't be a citizen's right, rather a luxury. And because of the lack of space on Oahu for further expanding our highways in order to accommodate a reasonable capacity not to cause traffic jams in non-rush hour periods, then I'd say mass-transit is a waste of time.
Don't get me wrong, I support mass-transit for reasons that other progressive, more-pragmatic cities have tackled it.
But when Oahu will tackle something that costs more than any single project ever undertaken, I'd say we're doomed for failure.
Who knows? Mufi may have the intention of quadrupling driver's license, vehicle registration, and road upkeep fees, but let's not play chicken-and-egg with this. Let's see what impact curbing people's habits might do before we build a behemoth of a semi-solution.
This is not even a project that can be part of a creed to "test fast, fail fast, fix fast."
Once we build it, it's there. Forever.

Hilo, HI

#10 Feb 10, 2008
And another thing, has anyone considered what this will look like? All this concrete adding-up to a huge eyesore.

Based on what the past descriptions of what the King St. flyover will look like going north onto University Ave., the height, support, and density of the rail platform and structure will look roughly like the portion of highway that flies over the business complex at 550 Paiea St. near the airport.

So when you're in the area, take a quick spin into the parking lot where Starbucks, Jamba Juice, and L&L Drive-Inn are, park roughly in front of Jamba Juice.

Then get out of your car, look up and eastward toward that freeway onramp. You'll be looking at the onramp from the airport to points west on H1.

And it's this curved part of the highway that's roughly the height, relative thickness, and overall support structure that might look like what rail will look like. Then imagine 8-9 ft. tall trains sitting on top of that platform.

I'd say it's not gonna be pretty.

And spare me that mumbo-jumbo about how architecturally whispy these support columns might look. Concrete supports or anything structurally sound and seismically-acceptable in order to hold-up what is planned is NEVER gonna be whispy or disappear into the landscape.

Welcome to a paved paradise, where we put up a transit platform.

Hilo, HI

#11 Feb 10, 2008
Sorry I'm not "flaming" this message board, but I wanted to clarify my position.

I support rail for its merits, but not in Hawaii. However, I do not support highway expansion in Hawaii either.

I support limiting the number of vehicles and drivers on existing roads. I support convincing residents that 1-person-per-vehicle in rush hour is heinous. I support local people rising up against what has consistently been the silent groan-and-moan that is prevalent in local culture. I support responsible growth and management.

If we're thinking big, how's about we cover-up the H1 from the Liliha St. overpass until the Kinau St. exit, eliminate all exits between those points and use the recovered surfaces (above the newly-covered H1) to create parks and surface streets.

Then for those heading into downtown, pay a "density access" fee like Mayor Bloomberg's and the city of London's fees.

I think we **SHOULD** make people think twice about driving into downtown.

The politicians who sell the promise that traffic is a quality of life issue are only covering up the act that my quality of life is threatened by politicians who fail to reign-in and manage the growth of our cities and towns.

Now I'm done. Thanks everyone for "listening."

Hilo, HI

#12 Feb 10, 2008
oh my goodness I just realized the Advertiser is posting our transit story comments into the purchase turtle bay story. what gives?
Doctor H

Bellevue, NE

#13 Feb 10, 2008
Let's face, hawaii needs to expand into the west already, "keeping the country, the country" isnt going to help anyone. The freeway needs more lanes or alternative routes need to be placed along with this new transit system. Costly? Yes. How'll about we just put less money into HPD's traffic division and funnel it towards a better transit system, because god only knows they dont help traffic conditions, when they pull people over for going 60 in a 55.

Kapaa, HI

#14 Feb 10, 2008

South Windsor, CT

#15 Feb 10, 2008
I agree with a density transit fee. Should be $10.00 to enter downtown. Rail is the way to go. No, the initial system is not perfect, but every major city started somewhere. There is this mentality in Honolulu that we are not a big city. We are. Tourist come to Waikiki for the mix of paradise and city. Residents live here for that mix. If not Lanai would be the most popular place to visit or people would just go to Mexico for vacation. This is an investment in our future. There seems to be some idea out there that this transit system will get everyone off the road and they can just zoom into town. Not the case. Every major city with a succesful transit system on the East Coast, Europe, Asia etc. still has trafic as a nightmare. Build it and they will come!! Expand it and more will come!!! Eventually you will be able to take the train to all corners of Oahu and I can't wait. If you have ever lived in a city without a car, you know what I am talking about.

Winchester, KY

#16 Feb 10, 2008
Typical of Nestor Garcia to ignore the facts and use glib statements like "KEEP THE COUNTRY COUNTRY". Hate to tell you Nestor but it ain't country out here anymore. The rail system has nothing to do with providing an alternative to driving. What it has always been for is to provide campaign contributions to Mufi Hannemann. He just broke the $2 Million mark for the 2008 Mayors race mostly grom engineers, construction company employees, consultants. He wants to break ground in 2009 because he is going to run for Governor in 2010 and can't start raising money for that race until after the Mayors race. Then it's off to the U.S. Senate as soon as a Dan dies. If it's about transportation for the leeward residents why did they leave out Ewa Beach and put two stops in Salt Lake?

Waipahu, HI

#17 Feb 10, 2008
unlike the Pasadena to LA rail system that has a fenced park & ride, how can the county assure the public that parking to use the rapid transit is safe? but where? i might consider a deck over existing right-of-way.

Honolulu, HI

#18 Feb 10, 2008
The city states "Groundbreaking on the mass-transit system could occur next year with the first segment starting service between east Kapolei and Waipahu in 2012. The full 20-mile route from east Kapolei to Ala Moana Center would begin service in 2017, according to city plans!" IF THE CONGESTION NOW IS BETWEEN PEARL CITY AND AIEA, WHY NOT BUILD THIS SECTION FIRST?

Kaneohe, HI

#19 Feb 10, 2008
If the proponents of a rail system are so confident, then why not put it on the ballot and let the people decide.

Given that more than half of us who are paying for this thing will never use it, and will be a financial burden on this and the next generation C&C taxpayers, we should have a say.

Of course, according to Councilman Okino, voters are 'smart' enough to make an informed decision on mass transit.

Kaneohe, HI

#20 Feb 10, 2008
I meant, Okino doesn't believe voters are smart enough...

Hana, HI

#21 Feb 10, 2008
No Sh#%@,why waste the money,give the public schools a overhaul.The children our the future.

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