Letters to the Editor - Letters

Letters to the Editor - Letters

There are 75 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Sep 2, 2009, titled Letters to the Editor - Letters. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

The closure of Kulani Prison and cutting funds to drug treatment programs like Hina Mauka are "illusionary savings." Like illusionists who distract our attention while making things disappear and then reappear, the administration creates the illusion that we're saving money, yet these costs will reappear somewhere else.

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“Live Love Laugh.. and Surf! :)”

Since: Aug 08

Kaimuki,Hilo,Ka'u, Kaupo

#1 Sep 2, 2009
"The closure of Kulani Prison and cutting funds to drug treatment programs like Hina Mauka are "illusionary savings." Like illusionists who distract our attention while making things disappear and then reappear, the administration creates the illusion that we're saving money, yet these costs will reappear somewhere else."

Yet some local people continue to vote for the same people.
Big John-Hawaii Kai

Kailua, HI

#2 Sep 2, 2009
-Lana- wrote:
"The closure of Kulani Prison and cutting funds to drug treatment programs like Hina Mauka are "illusionary savings." Like illusionists who distract our attention while making things disappear and then reappear, the administration creates the illusion that we're saving money, yet these costs will reappear somewhere else."
Yet some local people continue to vote for the same people.
For once Lana, I totally agree with you, however, that will not change in this State until and unless our young voting age citizens start to realize that "their vote does count," and it's okay to vote outside the box.
POPS

Honolulu, HI

#3 Sep 2, 2009
REMO, get a life
Hawaiian Republican

United States

#4 Sep 2, 2009
Loose ends from yesterday for Yeah. This I posted very early this morning before the SB changed online editions:
Yeah wrote:
<quoted text>Since you appear that you don't want to define the scope of the issue, how's this for the French...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/...
There are some problems with this source. First, the obvious: in the link you provided, it's under the "opinion" section of salon.com . Next, the author of the column doesn't present any named sources. Lastly, the author is Sidney Blumenthal. Here's more on good ole Sid:

-Assistant to former President Bill Clinton
-Developed a reputation for mercilessly smearing opponents of Clinton
-Proponent of the "Third Way," a centrist philosophy that borrows ideas from both Marxism and capitalism
- Famous for his unwavering loyalty to Bill and Hillary Clinton, Sidney Blumenthal is an American journalist who served as assistant and senior adviser to President Bill Clinton from August 1997 until January 2001.
- In 2004 Blumenthal made a $2,000 campaign contribution to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

More information on him at:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individual...

Not exactly an unbiased source.

Good try, but you're not proving your assertion.
Hawaiian Republican

United States

#5 Sep 2, 2009
Loose ends from yesterday for "Big Isle" who thinks a much to BIG of herself. This I posted very early this morning before the SB changed online editions:
big isle wrote:
<quoted text>
Good job, Yeah/Kihei!! I told you this pretender, Hawaiian Republican, would, again, exit stage left when he's truly confronted...you see he idealizes himself as a self-made man which is admirable in these times...but he forgets he's not an intellect, but rather, a pious, self-annointed, holier-than-thou/God-like prophet for all to behold...he runs away like hell when he can't defend his statements or interrogatories he poses...go easy on him; he's a special, sensitive person who uses company time and property (computer/internet) to advance his opinions...he can steal; he walks on water!
Big Isle, you're talking like a knucklehead. I'm not running. I just don't live every hour of my day by the computer much less on this forum. I was here on this forum hours ago before you. Just because I didn't reply at your convenience doesn't mean I ran away. As a matter of fact, I just posted a reply to Yeah on his last. Let's see if either of you are here now......or maybe you just "exit stage left" when you were "truly confronted".

See ya in funny papers!

[Ikynaf,mswi.]
Hawaiian Republican

United States

#6 Sep 2, 2009
-Lana- wrote:
"The closure of Kulani Prison and cutting funds to drug treatment programs like Hina Mauka are "illusionary savings." Like illusionists who distract our attention while making things disappear and then reappear, the administration creates the illusion that we're saving money, yet these costs will reappear somewhere else."
Yet some local people continue to vote for the same people.
You're right, Lana. We, the voting public, keep voting in the same horrible, policy-making incumbents time and time again. Do you think it will be any different next election season?
IXTLAN

Kaneohe, HI

#7 Sep 2, 2009
Is it smart to equate drug treatment and sex offender treatment?
The former works with motivated addicts, and fails with the later because of their sick motivation.
Pau

Long Beach, CA

#8 Sep 2, 2009
HR,

Don't you believe if what the authors who wrote articles that debunked WMD's and the justification for the Iraq war were libelous, why didn't the Bush admin sue?

IMO, the outcry are only from those who don't like the message. Strictly partisan.
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#9 Sep 2, 2009
Hawaiian Republican wrote:
Loose ends from yesterday for Yeah. This I posted very early this morning before the SB changed online editions:
<quoted text>
There are some problems with this source. First, the obvious: in the link you provided, it's under the "opinion" section of salon.com . Next, the author of the column doesn't present any named sources. Lastly, the author is Sidney Blumenthal. Here's more on good ole Sid:
-Assistant to former President Bill Clinton
-Developed a reputation for mercilessly smearing opponents of Clinton
-Proponent of the "Third Way," a centrist philosophy that borrows ideas from both Marxism and capitalism
- Famous for his unwavering loyalty to Bill and Hillary Clinton, Sidney Blumenthal is an American journalist who served as assistant and senior adviser to President Bill Clinton from August 1997 until January 2001.
- In 2004 Blumenthal made a $2,000 campaign contribution to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.
More information on him at:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individual...
Not exactly an unbiased source.
Good try, but you're not proving your assertion.
//www.isis-online.org/publicat ions/iraq/...

I noticed you did not disagree with this link, nor did you make a response. Shall I assume you accept the information as accurate?
willie

Plymouth, MI

#10 Sep 2, 2009
"Pigs suffer even before official violence begins"

Remo, have you seen the documentary depicting the agony carrots endure when they are yanked out of the ground to be eaten by vegans?

Since: Sep 08

Honolulu

#11 Sep 2, 2009
Hawaiian Republican wrote:
Loose ends from yesterday for Yeah. This I posted very early this morning before the SB changed online editions:
<quoted text>
There are some problems with this source. First, the obvious: in the link you provided, it's under the "opinion" section of salon.com . Next, the author of the column doesn't present any named sources. Lastly, the author is Sidney Blumenthal. Here's more on good ole Sid:
-Assistant to former President Bill Clinton
-Developed a reputation for mercilessly smearing opponents of Clinton
-Proponent of the "Third Way," a centrist philosophy that borrows ideas from both Marxism and capitalism
- Famous for his unwavering loyalty to Bill and Hillary Clinton, Sidney Blumenthal is an American journalist who served as assistant and senior adviser to President Bill Clinton from August 1997 until January 2001.
- In 2004 Blumenthal made a $2,000 campaign contribution to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.
More information on him at:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individual...
Not exactly an unbiased source.
Good try, but you're not proving your assertion.
"Not proving your assertiion"? Or, put another way, you yourself are unable to change your opinion despite the evidence. Wouldn't that be just as true? Unless, of course, you have admitted somewhere on these threads that you have been convinced by someone else.

Let's look at your arguments against other testimony, one by one:

1) An article under the "opinion" section. You seem to think that makes a difference. How? Blumenthal bases his article upon verifiable information. You need to prove that the information is wrong or his interpretation is invalid. You don't do that. You just say, hmmm, it's under the "opinion" column like that matters much.

2) About "named sources" -- what do you mean by that? Blumenthal names many names and provides direct quotes in this article. Are you referring to his CIA sources? How would naming the CIA officers change what they had to say? Or do you just think that Blumenthal violated journalistic ethics when he protected his sources? You think he made those quotes up? What leads you to think that, if so?

3) Here you do have a minor point: Blumenthal is not unbiased. So what? Who isn't? If the information that Yeah shows you depends upon whether you think the source is biased or not, you will forever be unsatisfied. Are your filters that strong that you are completely impermeable?

Just pointing out your errors in reasoning. Have a good day!
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#12 Sep 2, 2009
Hawaiian Republican wrote:
Loose ends from yesterday for Yeah. This I posted very early this morning before the SB changed online editions:
<quoted text>
There are some problems with this source. First, the obvious: in the link you provided, it's under the "opinion" section of salon.com . Next, the author of the column doesn't present any named sources. Lastly, the author is Sidney Blumenthal. Here's more on good ole Sid:
-Assistant to former President Bill Clinton
-Developed a reputation for mercilessly smearing opponents of Clinton
-Proponent of the "Third Way," a centrist philosophy that borrows ideas from both Marxism and capitalism
- Famous for his unwavering loyalty to Bill and Hillary Clinton, Sidney Blumenthal is an American journalist who served as assistant and senior adviser to President Bill Clinton from August 1997 until January 2001.
- In 2004 Blumenthal made a $2,000 campaign contribution to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.
More information on him at:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individual...
Not exactly an unbiased source.
Good try, but you're not proving your assertion.
Now Germany...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/...

BTW, I notice you're selective about what questions you answer. Since you only respond in the negative (ie... create counterpoints for those items you disagree with), I'm assuming those items you do agree with you don't respond to.
Hawaiian Republican

United States

#13 Sep 2, 2009
Pau wrote:
HR,
Don't you believe if what the authors who wrote articles that debunked WMD's and the justification for the Iraq war were libelous, why didn't the Bush admin sue?
IMO, the outcry are only from those who don't like the message. Strictly partisan.
That's not the issue on the table, Pau. Yeah made an assertion that Russia, France, and Germany had better intell than the United States. I asked him if he had sources for that statement. So far, most of the links he sent didn't even mention those three countries and/or are from very biased, non-credible sources.

We can spin your point the other way, though, too. If President Bush purposely distorted the intell and lied, why hasn't he been prosecuted? Hmmm. But I digress, since none of this what I was trying to get from Yeah anyway.
Lucky Cucumber

Honolulu, HI

#15 Sep 2, 2009
willie wrote:
"Pigs suffer even before official violence begins"
Remo, have you seen the documentary depicting the agony carrots endure when they are yanked out of the ground to be eaten by vegans?
You're right Willie!
Here's proof- www.department13designs.com
Hawaiian Republican

United States

#16 Sep 2, 2009
Bullshot Crummond wrote:
<quoted text>
"Not proving your assertiion"? Or, put another way, you yourself are unable to change your opinion despite the evidence. Wouldn't that be just as true? Unless, of course, you have admitted somewhere on these threads that you have been convinced by someone else.
Let's look at your arguments against other testimony, one by one:
1) An article under the "opinion" section. You seem to think that makes a difference. How? Blumenthal bases his article upon verifiable information. You need to prove that the information is wrong or his interpretation is invalid. You don't do that. You just say, hmmm, it's under the "opinion" column like that matters much.
2) About "named sources" -- what do you mean by that? Blumenthal names many names and provides direct quotes in this article. Are you referring to his CIA sources? How would naming the CIA officers change what they had to say? Or do you just think that Blumenthal violated journalistic ethics when he protected his sources? You think he made those quotes up? What leads you to think that, if so?
3) Here you do have a minor point: Blumenthal is not unbiased. So what? Who isn't? If the information that Yeah shows you depends upon whether you think the source is biased or not, you will forever be unsatisfied. Are your filters that strong that you are completely impermeable?
Just pointing out your errors in reasoning. Have a good day!
OK, first, I'm wondering if you even know what I am discussing with Yeah since I didn't notice you on the forum yesterday.(See my post to Pau)

Regarding your points: When something is under the "opinion" column, the complete work is that...an opinion. Even opinion work has facts in it, as one would properly support their opinion with facts, but the complete work is still an opinion. If it weren't so, then why did they place the article in the "opinion" section. They did, not me.

Two, you said he names many names. Really? I see a lot of quotes attributed to unnamed sources. Did he make them up? I can't say for certain, but neither can you say for certain that he didn't make them up. How can anyone verify that except for Blumenthal himself? So, it leaves me skeptical, especially since he's a left-wing ideologue. If Rush Limbaugh wrote an opinion piece in which he quotes two unnamed sources close to Obama as saying the President is trying to transform America into a socialist society, would you take his word for it?[I didn't think so].

In your third point, you concede to one of my points, though you quickly devalue it as a "minor point" and then quickly shove it to the side because your so "impermeable" that you would rather dismiss it than turn to Yeah and say, "Can you present an unbiased source?"
Lucky Cucumber

Honolulu, HI

#17 Sep 2, 2009
That link didn't work. See if this fits-
"Scientists Prove Plants Feel Pain, Vegans Face Starvation
DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities." When Tarnish asked professor Lindzer and his research team what they thought this finding might mean, they responded unanimously, "Nobel prize, baby!"

Other agencies, namely People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and the sum total of the world's hard-core vegetarians (known as vegans) registered formal complaints against the research. Their team of lawyers has already submitted a motion to have the results of the research destroyed or sealed. Others fear the damage has already been done. A spokesman for PETA said, "This is bad for us. Most of our members haven't eaten anything since hearing about the results. Our lawyers are looking into suing Mother Earth for false advertising, but concede that the suit will probably be inconclusive. In the meantime we'll be surviving on vitamin supplements and water."

In an ironic related story, a dozen PETA protesters picketing the Hungry Carnivore Steak House in New York City were allegedly assaulted by three patrons of the restaurant. Eyewitnesses say that the picketers were making their typical nuisance display of scorn and righteous indignation over the willful consumption of "the flesh of murdered animals" outside the Hungry Carnivore when two unidentified men and a woman stepped out of the establishment and sprayed the picketers with several gallons of what appeared to be blood. Victims and bystanders alike were surprised to discover that the liquid was actually V-8 juice. The truly shocking result of the alleged attack was the reaction of the picketers. All of the PETA protesters were wracked with convulsions and suffered hours of dry heaves while many of the bystanders merely laughed. This reaction within vegetarianism's great bastion of faith has many true believers reconsidering their dietary requirements. Others are quietly making funeral arrangements and the Environmental Protection Agency is considering declaring vegans an endangered species."
-from the department13designs website-
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#18 Sep 2, 2009
Hawaiian Republican wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not the issue on the table, Pau. Yeah made an assertion that Russia, France, and Germany had better intell than the United States. I asked him if he had sources for that statement. So far, most of the links he sent didn't even mention those three countries and/or are from very biased, non-credible sources.
We can spin your point the other way, though, too. If President Bush purposely distorted the intell and lied, why hasn't he been prosecuted? Hmmm. But I digress, since none of this what I was trying to get from Yeah anyway.
As I said before, you simply asked for my sources. If you're now going base it on what you consider "credible," that's fine too. That seems to be your position and it seems you respond accordingly to those links you disagree with.

So as I said, I am going to assume that those links you DON'T respond to you accept as valid, and are therefore credible.
Hawaiian Republican

United States

#19 Sep 2, 2009
Yeah wrote:
<quoted text>Now Germany...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/...
BTW, I notice you're selective about what questions you answer. Since you only respond in the negative (ie... create counterpoints for those items you disagree with), I'm assuming those items you do agree with you don't respond to.
You should know better not to assume.

This is a good one for Germany, I admit, but I am cross-checking this article with more recent articles from Germany on the same topic. In a pinch on time since I'm near shift change, but I'll get back to you one this particular article later today from home.
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#20 Sep 2, 2009
Hawaiian Republican wrote:
<quoted text>
You should know better not to assume.
This is a good one for Germany, I admit, but I am cross-checking this article with more recent articles from Germany on the same topic. In a pinch on time since I'm near shift change, but I'll get back to you one this particular article later today from home.
Fair enough.
alarmclock

Kilauea, HI

#22 Sep 2, 2009
Hawaiian Republican wrote:
<quoted text>
We can spin your point the other way, though, too. If President Bush purposely distorted the intell and lied, why hasn't he been prosecuted? Hmmm.
Not to further your digression, but lack of prosecution of a president for wrongdoing hardly seems like evidence of innocence. If I'm not mistaken, US Presidents seem to get a waiver from prosecution more often than not, even when the evidence (if not the wrongdoing) is pretty solid. Take Nixon or Clinton. Even Reagan as I recall seemed to admit to some culpability in the Iran-Contra scandal, but avoided any real consequences, unlike some others.

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