Letters on Homestead Heritage: Community or cult?

For seven years, we've shared fence lines with members of Homestead Heritage on three sides of our land. Read more
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6409 Mar 23, 2013
Reading the passage with the Samaritan woman tells the whole story in one event:

1) He says the Jews know WHAT they worship: the One God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
2) "We know what we worship" -- who is WE??
Cannot be a new contingent of worshipers who worshiped the Son and Father together as God, so if this were actually true, then why is Jesus saying the WE in his sentence KNOWS what they worship?

3) Another point which all gloss over is the fact that Jesus is ALSO telling her the evolution of belief in God in HOW the One True God will pour out his spirit upon the earth; this God changes in His attitude toward us, NOT in His ontology.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

4) Jesus is also telling her WHOM God is.

Above shown: the Father.

5) Ego eimi without a complement is ALSO in this passage, but NOT translated "I AM." Why is this?
Since Jesus never even comes close to the concept
or statement that he himself is God? You think?

So now we worship the Father and Son together as God. Is this the same God Jesus described to the Samaritan woman?

Cannot be. NO ONE KNEW Jesus was God at that point in time. OR thought they knew.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6410 Mar 23, 2013
So Jesus was telling her in absolute terms, at least it seems so, that the God of the Jews is the KNOWING of God in Truth.

AND he tells her how the times are changing and the worship of this SAME SINGULAR GOD will be done in Spirit.

AND he includes in no way shape or form the hint that he himself was this God of the Hebrews.

Only the foretold Messiah.

This passage alone definitively puts down any notion that Jesus can be God.

Can any reader disagree? How so? You glossed over this one too?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6411 Mar 23, 2013
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Was Jesus arguing over whether to worship the Father on the mountain or the Temple only? The same Father?

Or rather was he saying that the whole sequence of events leading up to the Temple in Jerusalem was that of the True Faith?

She just said that she perceived him as a prophet. If he is God, then this too would be a natural correction for her. But he did not.

He tells her rather, that the God of the Jews is the True God.

So where does this leave all of you, trinitarians and Oneness Pentecostals alike?

In the dust? Because you ADDED TO the One True God?
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#6412 Mar 23, 2013
MATTHEW 28

The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said,“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I thank God that the Apostles that walked with Jesus did not question HIS AUTHORITY and instead obeyed HIS Words. None of us would be here if they did not obey HIM.

No one on earth can claim to know all things concerning our LORD BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOD!!!!
That is where FAITH comes in.

That is where the HH elders went terribly wrong; claiming to become Jesus in the flesh.

1 JOHN 3
2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6413 Mar 23, 2013
Why did Jesus insist to the Samaritan woman the God of the Jews, not Samaritans was the One True God?

Because the exile and 40 year wanderings is a vital component of Jewish history with the God that sustained them.

Because Moses was a true prophet whom they did not acknowledge.

Because the Temple building and history was also relational to this One True God.

And finally because the Messiah would come from this tradition and not from among the Samaritans themselves.

We know WHAT we worship. The One True God whom guided these people to the Promised Land. The One True God whom directed the building of the Temple.
And the One True God whom would annoint and even
birth his own beloved Son to lead them out of darkness forever, both Samaritan and Jew.

The Son of God, not Son the God. Or God the Son.
These last were never articulated or recorded in scripture.

I know, you see the word OF as:

Expressing the relationship between a part and a whole: "the sleeve of his coat".

But this ignores the terms "sons of God" and "children of God." I.e. some of US.

These too are going to BE GOD??

Also Adam was called the "son of God" in Luke.
He too is God?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6414 Mar 23, 2013
I lived to tell the truth wrote:
MATTHEW 28
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said,“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
This concept ALL AUTHORITY is seen exhaustively from 1 Cor 15:

27 For he [YHWH] hath put all things under his [Jesus] feet. But when he [YHWH or Jesus] saith all things are put under him [Jesus], IT IS MANIFEST THAT HE [YHWH] IS EXCEPTED, which did put all things under him [Jesus].

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him [Jesus], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [YHWH] that put all things under him [Jesus], that God [YHWH ONLY] may be all in all.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6415 Mar 23, 2013
I lived to tell the truth wrote:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
I thank God that the Apostles that walked with Jesus did not question HIS AUTHORITY and instead obeyed HIS Words. None of us would be here if they did not obey HIM.
No one on earth can claim to know all things concerning our LORD BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOD!!!!
That is where FAITH comes in.
1) The disciples DID NOT baptize in the formulational name of Father Son and Holy Spirit, ONE TIME in scripture.

They did however baptize in the name of Jesus 5 times.
I have shown definitively that men in that age did not see themselves being baptized in the name of God anyway.
Paul makes a big deal about saying he was glad he baptized hardly any since they would think he baptized IN HIS OWN NAME.
Secondly God has only one name He gave us, YHWH. No one ever at any time baptized in this name.

Yes they obeyed his words. And understood them accurately to mean
to baptize in the name of the Messiah. This name is not ontologically God, but the Key or Door or MET-A-PHOR to the Father.

Again, OF does not mean here a substantial part of. Name OF the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is Jesus. This is because through this name one comes unto the One True God. And He sent his own Spirit in the name OF the Son.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6416 Mar 23, 2013
No one on earth can claim to know all things concerning our LORD BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOD!!!!
That is where FAITH comes in.-- ILTTTT

1) We claim in faith those things we see in faith
2) No one can claim to know all things, especially concerning the ONTOLOGY of God.

However, we can confidently STAND upon the First Command and the Great Command which NEGATES Jesus being God both of them.

Ye shall have no other Elohim before me.
No other supernatural beings, period.

Hear Oh Israel, the YHWH our God, the YHWH is One.

For if we cannot stand upon these then what exactly CAN we stand upon?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6417 Mar 23, 2013
Baaah wrote:
The only way to combat Homestead Heritage is to find the greater light.
Why do I combat Homestead Heritage?

Same reason why I combat all mainstream denoms.

You are all awry. Got Jesus? Well then, get the One True God.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,

and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#6418 Mar 24, 2013
JOHN 10
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied,“but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them,“Is it not written in your Law,‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said,‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Have you had miracles in your life?
Your constant spewing of unbelief in Jesus Christ in who HE IS tells me you have not.

You are desperately picking apart Holy Scriptures trying to figure God out. By doing so you have missed out on the most important part-coming to know HIM personally through HIS HOLY SPIRIT. I am sure many on this website can testify about how wonderful it is to walk with Jesus-even after HH, JESUS is still wonderful.
But you will have none of it.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6419 Mar 24, 2013
Ye are 'gods' little 'g'??

What pray tell would that mean to you ILTTTT?

Don't you understand that this concept of "gods" makes no sense whatsoever?

Jesus is referring to Psalms 82. The word is ELOHIM.
Translated 'gods' in the English. The translation is awry. Thus mass confusion over the whole planet of Christians.

'Elohim' does not mean "gods." Period.

Jesus says what it means in Jn 10. Not necessarily YHWH Elohim, and since NONE of the heavenly court to 'whom the word of God came" were GOD, then these too are 'elohim' but not gods or God.

I have given this lesson about four times now on this forum and you have glossed over, misconstrued, or otherwise spaced on it every time.

Try again. OR explain to me and the readers how 'gods' makes any sense at all. What, are we Roman Pantheonists now?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6420 Mar 24, 2013
But one more time.

Elohim has six or seven categories of being.

That means at LEAST six or seven beings, all but one not YHWH Elohim.

1) ghosts or disembodied spirits
2) angels
3) prophets and saints of the OT
4) those to whom the word of God came Jn 10/Psalms 82
5) Jesus the first glorified man (pronounced by Thomas, Jn 8:58)
6) kings
7) YHWH Elohim

Are ghosts God or gods? Are saints gods or God?
Are kings gods or God? No, no no.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6421 Mar 24, 2013
So then what COULD Elohim mean in encapsulated form?

Otherworldlies, supernatural beings.

And what now would the first command of YHWH then mean?

la ieue alei*k ashr eutzathi*k m*artz mtzrim m*bith
obdim

not he*shall become to*you elohim other ones on faces of me.

You shall have NO OTHER ELOHIM before me.

This means YHWH alone is God. Read it.

It is written.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6422 Mar 24, 2013
NOT HE shall become to you elohim before (on faces of me).

NOT HE shall become God to you except I, YHWH Elohim.

Who is HE?

Any "he" on the planet or outside the planet or in and out of the planet.

Including the Christ. I assume Christ was a HE was he not?

And are we fudging again about Jesus? How many fudges come together to make the Great Fudge?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6423 Mar 24, 2013
NOT HE shall become God to you except I, YHWH Elohim.-- Baaah

Did I just contradict myself? No, YHWH was saying NO ONE shall become the FACE of Him (God) because He is the One God.

YHWH ELOHIM. This is the One True God of the Hebrews.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#6424 Mar 24, 2013
{Ye are 'gods' little 'g'??

What pray tell would that mean to you ILTTTT?

Don't you understand that this concept of "gods" makes no sense whatsoever?}Baaah

Every time I post Holy Scripture it is coming from the Word of God, copied from Bible gateway website NIV version.

You are going to continue to mock God as you have been doing for pages and pages, and more pages.

All of which has what to do with Homestead Heritage?

That has been asked over and over again because that is what this website is about-not what Baaah believes.

It is a place for those who actually suffered in HH to come and give testimony as the public has taken notice, and you Baaah have turned this website into your own to spew much about your unbelief on what you do NOT believe in Holy Scriptures.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#6425 Mar 24, 2013
The Waco Tribune started this discussion because of articles written on HH.
All are invited to come and speak about HH.

IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU BAAAH.

NOT WHAT YOU BELIEVE OR WHAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE HOLY BIBLE.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6426 Mar 25, 2013
I lived to tell the truth wrote:
{Ye are 'gods' little 'g'??
What pray tell would that mean to you ILTTTT?
Don't you understand that this concept of "gods" makes no sense whatsoever?}Baaah
Every time I post Holy Scripture it is coming from the Word of God, copied from Bible gateway website NIV version.
You are going to continue to mock God as you have been doing for pages and pages, and more pages.
All of which has what to do with Homestead Heritage?
That has been asked over and over again because that is what this website is about-not what Baaah believes.
It is a place for those who actually suffered in HH to come and give testimony as the public has taken notice, and you Baaah have turned this website into your own to spew much about your unbelief on what you do NOT believe in Holy Scriptures.
Total dependence on your NIV is of course your problem.

As is the translation of 'gods' from 'elohim' in the Hebrew.

Unless you believe alotta gods are up there running around.

The NIV don't make sense in this case, neither the KJV or any other mainline version.

Why? Human error is common. Murphy's Law. Call it what you want.

Baaah digs deeper. And he has dug deeper regarding HH also.
Most of you just ACCEPTED what they told you. Then DIDN'T LIKE the way things were going. And LEFT covenant just as unthinkingly.

What YOU believed and believe is what we are talking about here.
You and others who read. Is HH a cult?

Define what is 'cult' and you have your answer. You just posted what YOU believe. I am saying your vaunted NIV doesn't make sense regarding 'ye are gods'. This is because it DOES NOT.

God didn't write scripture for us to be confused over His very first principle that He is the One True God.

gods.....God. Try to make sense of the verse and you will find the truth of it.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#6427 Mar 25, 2013
Baaah wrote:
<quoted text> Is this the ILA I've always known and loved?
Well, enemies I make and this is for all who follow the narrow path.
Sorry to hear you aren't interested, but then again not too many were interested during the time of Jesus that ANOTHER one was claiming to be the Christ...
see the testimony of Gemaliel.
I don't see though how affirming the Shema and the First Command of the Ten is 'going bonkers'. If you read closely you will see that Jesus too was entirely orthodox as a Jew.
Your God has no resemblance to his at all. He said "we know what we worship." And "salvation is from the Jews."
But of course I am talking nonsense. If the One True God is Jesus the Son, then what DID happen to the Father?
He died?
Hey Baaah...I never said or hinted that I'm one of your enemies...I was only saying that all the postings you've posted was way TOO MUCH, that it has nothing to do with the title of this forum. What you've been posting is what you believe in your heart but you're trying to put your beliefs down our throats. I'm saying bonkers because of how you posted one after another, going on and on as if some of us are arguing with you...also you've been playing with words such as whataboud, fudgies, etc, throwing us off with your thoughts n words...that you may think you're funny but it isn't funny any more.
This forum is not about what we believe if Jesus is God, three in one, Shema, or whatever...we believe what we feel is right in our hearts, through our experiences. I've seen and experienced miracles when Jesus' name was called.
At first when you first shared your thoughts, it sounds interesting and I was open to hear your thoughts but then you went too far about your beliefs, criticizing us for our beliefs...not sure if I'm explaining clear...it's as if you're intimidating us, trying to force us to believe in your thinking but you've pushed us away. Remember I've shared with you about the love of God, loving others and forgiving others...I do not feel the love in your messages/postings. You're demanding to get our attention and you've lost us.
Ever hear of Maltbie Davenport Babcock? His writings and poems touched me so deeply because of his genuine love for everyone, no matter what they believe...for the power of love, God's love, overpowers everything else. Try reading about him: Fragments That Remain and his writings Thoughts for Every Day Living. I'm trying to remember where the story he wrote was at...about Saul (I think) and prayers.
What I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with searching for more light and truth but to post one after another on this forum of your thoughts. That's what we're trying to say...start another forum or make your own blog with your thoughts and share with other pastors, etc., about what you've learned and wanting to share with others. I just don't know what else to say as I've said enough. Just asking you to please respect us. Thanks Baaah! Stay well.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#6428 Mar 25, 2013
Baaah wrote:
<quoted text>
Total dependence on your NIV is of course your problem.
As is the translation of 'gods' from 'elohim' in the Hebrew.
Unless you believe alotta gods are up there running around.
The NIV don't make sense in this case, neither the KJV or any other mainline version.
Why? Human error is common. Murphy's Law. Call it what you want.
Baaah digs deeper. And he has dug deeper regarding HH also.
Most of you just ACCEPTED what they told you. Then DIDN'T LIKE the way things were going. And LEFT covenant just as unthinkingly.
What YOU believed and believe is what we are talking about here.
You and others who read. Is HH a cult?
Define what is 'cult' and you have your answer. You just posted what YOU believe. I am saying your vaunted NIV doesn't make sense regarding 'ye are gods'. This is because it DOES NOT.
God didn't write scripture for us to be confused over His very first principle that He is the One True God.
gods.....God. Try to make sense of the verse and you will find the truth of it.
Just like I was saying earlier....where's the love of God in this message..."Total dependence on your NIV is of course your problem.". I'm sure many of us don't believe that there's many gods running around in heaven as we know that there's only ONE God in heaven just as I believe that Jesus is God, "Before Abraham was, I AM". I'm not going to argue with you on this, just simply sharing my belief...and not pushing you to believe what I believe. We all, individually, are connected to Him, in one way or another and we all search for more truth and light at our own pace as much as we can. What we all need is the LOVE of God in our hearts and in our messages to others, encouraging them...when some have become disillusioned or broken hearted from their and our experiences with HH.
"Most of you just ACCEPTED what they told you. Then DIDN'T LIKE the way things were going. And LEFT covenant just as unthinkingly." What makes you think we just accepted at face value what HH told us, we questioned and searched scriptures and felt connected at the time...and it was not easy to leave, most of us had a hard time leaving but made our choices to leave (or was kicked out/shunned). You went from one religion to another, did we judge you for joining and leaving one church after another, no, we didn't. We are all on a journey on earth, always until death come upon us. Without love of God in our hearts, we are nothing. Knowledge without love is nothing. Peace out.

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