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#6389 Mar 20, 2013
Also I rant about Small Law, which has direct bearing on HH.
If you want to contribute, then tell your own version of why Small Law is bad or good.
I will be happy to correct you.
#6390 Mar 20, 2013
90% of all the population could care less about God...
the ten percent left only care about their own version, which for modern Christianity is not exactly orthodox in the Jewish sense...
so then we are working on the one or two percent.
Who care, who will investigate. Why? Because Jesus never said he was God.
But he DID say:
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Oh, you don't care about life eternal either? Or was this a faulty verse?
#6391 Mar 20, 2013
If in Jesus words the FATHER is the Only True God...
"That they might know YOU the Only True God..."
How can you pervert the plain simple meaning here?
Is it not plain and simple?
Is it not simply plain in meaning?
Is it not clear in meaning?
How exactly can you see it any other way than I do?
#6392 Mar 21, 2013
Problem I have is that all the JW's that come to my door, are Hispanic, and they only witness to their own.
Otherwise I can outdebate and outverse the lot of them. AT LEAST we would know where we disagree and go left in the road while the other one goes right.
But here, no. My ramblings cover the whole of life's experiences, since no one will argue or debate at all.
You are shtuck in your paradigms, those made by fathers who perverted your gospel. Pre-RCC, which you are not even of.
Philosophers, whose Greek logic you know not a single smidgen of.
Gentiles, whose idea that a God will come to earth as man is as natural to them as white on rice, as we orientals like to say.
I have already let many of you go, for I will never see you again.
Not at the fair, not on weekends and not on tuesday nights. I am still here in Austin where I met the lot of you. But you left, for whatever reason I was never given any knowledge of. Consolidation, expansion. Moving to another clime.
All things change and HHers must be willing to change along with the notions of the elders. You have no choice, as entrenched as you are in your own self-made culture. This for good or bad. Those who don't toe the line wherever it leads will be pruned off and put out of their consciousness altogether.
I have a slightly different pattern here. All of us can change like the wind, standing upon the first principles of our faith first, including one of the primal ones, which is to follow our Lord to the ends of the earth if need be. This by the leading of the Spirit of YHWH whether through us or our confirmation of that in another. Forsake not the prophets, or the prophetical utterance, for this is the presence of God in the here and now. Telling us His will for the present.
So we then go where men do not normally go, and find out things men do not normally care about. HH has done this, and their ways of thinking and doing are as foreign to the mainstreamers as my own 'rantings' are foreign to you.
The difference is that I have established what the primal things are, which we must stand upon at all costs.
Shema the heart of the Law. The desire to engage in Shema which is the circumcision of the heart. The first command to have no other Gods (rather elohim) before the One True God.
This is encapsulated in the exhortation by Paul: love one another.
Jesus himself quotes Shema in Mark 12 with this last as the number one and number two commands in the whole existence of men.
So then what I say isn't really daft or extreme or even awry.
It is the simple Gospel itself. As men who stand upon the Rock will expound upon.
Maybe you are not up to my LEVEL, ILA. But I rather suspect you have just not articulated that which you know intrinsically.
In Loving Arms. God loves you and you love others. The Heart of Shema.
#6393 Mar 21, 2013
Youall must think a certain comfort level is your right here on this forum.
No, you have this confused with your living room.
I don't go there. Not unless you read these posts there.
Actually God did not guarantee you comfort there either.
We were told that the Jew IN TOUCH had a way out of their predicament, to run to other countries. Many DID run, to France, to Sweden to countries
who would have them.
No country in Europe was safe from the German regime. The ones occupied were then told to give up their Jews. And they did. Why?
Out of fear.
#6394 Mar 21, 2013
And WHY is my ranting about the Holocaust so obnoxious?
Since it is past history, um well now about 68 years old?
We quit the Somalian War over 13 dead American soldiers.
My my, how things change.
ALL Christians should know their own sordid history here. It has a direct bearing on what true gospel is.
The Cost of Discipleship. Every Christian on this planet should HAVE to read it.
Baaah's Rule of Deitrich Bonhoeffer. Baaah likes making rules.
Why this one? How much stink can 5 million sets of bones stink?
Their blood cries from the ground. If you can't hear these, then listen for once.
The ghosts of our old gospel past. Cheap Grace how sweet it is.
#6395 Mar 21, 2013
If you make the Gospel a simple one-time affirmation of a mental paradigm in your head, as German Lutherans were wont to do...
you will end up hating one another and using genocide as a tool of your OTHER agendas in this world...
EASY. Cheap Grace is false gospel. It CANNOT be true in any way shape or form. Those who teach it should be shot.
And burnt to a crisp. So they will eventually not stink so bad.
So did this teach Lutherans or Baptists or Episcopalians a lesson?
Nein. They go on with their same stinking Gospel.
#6396 Mar 21, 2013
So what did pure Cheap Grace evolve into?
1) The singular affirmation of Jesus sometime in your history
2) The Salvation VIP card then in your pocket. This is in LIEU of the Judgement Seat and is your automatic pass to heaven
3) The general desire to follow general Law, undefinable yet in a vague sense true. This follows BELIEF the one time you BELIEVED.
All I did was expound upon number (3) above. And I would add an addendum. If you DO NOT have Shema upon your heart, you ARE NOT circumcised and not
reborn. Second addendum: Gross sin on your part will still be reason to keep you out of them pearly gates.
Was that last a direct contradiction of (2) above?
Yes, since your propitiation is not ABSOLUTE or a DONE DEAL as they say in the South.
However much more Jesus propitiates, it is not FINISHED since you have your end of covenant to uphold.
This should be your basic gospel. I know it is a radical conceptualization of an old view.
But it fits so much better. Viva la revolucion.
#6397 Mar 21, 2013
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved;
Secret: both BELIEF and SAVED are holistic words, not a one time event either one.
Ongoing, salvation is exhaustively on earth as well as implying heaven.
And PISTEOW or belief ongoing also and something greater in depth than we can even describe.
#6398 Mar 21, 2013
You know the Code of Battle is so much closer to gospel than your Cheap Grace is...
the highest most glorious thing is to give your life for your fellow man in the field. And he knows it. And you know it.
Like 'The World According to Garp' Tom Hanks goes back behind enemy lines to pick up one lost and weakened comrade after another.
And gets the Iron Cross, or whatever the medal is nowadays.
Every man knew they owed their life to him. This is actually our gospel. Nothing more glorious under the sun.
And Tom, I mean Jesus accomplished it. We took the greater treasure, buried it, and cherished it for the duration. And how valuable is this treasure after all?
More valuable than our life here on earth, anyway.
#6399 Mar 21, 2013
You have to respect JW's for what they are,
and allow for change whereever they are not.
They happen to have the highest rate of large denomination converts, if only by their evangelical commitment and effort.
They oppose the Trinity and affirm the humanity of Christ.
They uphold the Law in general which puts them heads over the mainline denoms.
These make them 'cult' to mainliners, but then again mainliners have no idea what the word means objectively.
I personally think they not being pentecostal take human fervor about as far as it naturally can go.
Just don't figure on their prophetical utterances to be true, especially regarding the end of the world. As we know it.
Otherwise I know not too much about them.
#6400 Mar 21, 2013
And ILA you are quite aware that JW's will politely leave if you politely ask them to.
Even if your politeness is an obvious cover.
What we would call despicable to ourselves is for them offering the Gift of Life.
My own former pastor wanted to do a similar neighborhood outreach. He was gung ho as we all were way back when.
What happened to us, are you another one who changed?
I used to do street ministry. I was just not very good at it.
#6401 Mar 22, 2013
All Oneness Pentecostals know if they are paying attention...
that trinitarians have absolutely no leg to stand on.
Their paradigm was not creedal until 381 A.D. 8 generations after Jesus was here...
Jesus himself never having mentioned any so-called trinity of God being Father Son and Holy Spirit.
The formulation only one time ever mentioned, Mt 28:19 and not as a singular name for baptism, since the historical name used was Jesus 5x in the Bible and the trin formulation ZERO times at all.
SINCE there is no leg to stand upon regarding Trinity, THEN we can confidently say the Trinity of YHWH is non-existent. At least as expounded upon by the Hypostatic Union in the Creed of Constantinople of 381.
Do you know what the Hypostatic Union is? No, and neither did I until last year. I assumed my elders knew and covered the gaps.
This assumption is false for all. Whether Oneness Pentecostal OR Trinitarian. These elders of ours only listened to their own elders. Who listened to their own elders.
The traditions of men are not sufficient. Jesus is not God. This makes the One God of the Hebrews the Father only, just as Jesus himself always said.
NO? Tell me where in scripture. And I will stand down.
When you ascribed deity to Jesus, you and your fathers have always ignored BASIC Jewish monotheism.
#6402 Mar 22, 2013
And where would the gap be for Oneness Pentecostal preachers to 'cover' and this mistakenly?
They have confused the annointing of the Christ with deity itself.
They ascribe deity to Jesus when he referred to his own God as not himself.
They ignore the same orthodox stance of the Jew that trinitarians also do.
They ignore the fact that Jesus himself was an orthodox Jew.
They ignore the plain simple meaning of the same Shema which they uphold in their own positional papers.
They ignore the chasm between the old definition of God WHICH GOD COMMANDED US TO BELIEVE and their own new one, WHICH COMPROMISES trinitarianism and Shema.
Shema being the absolute principle, and the number one principle of your religion cannot be compromised.
So then there is absolutely nothing glorious about making Jesus YHWH when YHWH told us HE stands next to no other.
No other includes no other. Jesus is AN other I would assume.
Do you? One thing about the Bible. If you don't make sense of it, then how can you teach the things that don't make sense to you?
And does God primarily tell us things that don't make sense? I say no.
All we do in life is make sense of it. This is what God made minds for. Why did you think he made us to think?
#6403 Mar 22, 2013
I put up with 10 years of condescension.
Wasn't spiritual enough or good enough or comprehending enough to be called a brother.
To be allowed WITH youall in congregation, to hear the words of the annointed ones.
Did not matter if it was someone NICE like ILA. Did not matter if it was someone SPIRITUAL like Blair.
ALL of you kept me out.
This is not payback. But I will correct you since you REQUIRED me to find out for myself what was going on.
Not only for your group. But for Christianity itself.
The only way to combat Homestead Heritage is to find the greater light. By their OWN DEFINITION.
So I have. And you will know it, all who read.
#6404 Mar 22, 2013
Of course the 'greater light' is that Jesus is not God.
By your own scripture. By the first principle of your religion.
By the first command of your religion. And by the viewpoint of the Messiah himself.
Thou shalt have no other elohim before me.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
If he knew himself to be God, then when did he break this news to his disciples? When the Jews were ready to stone him because they thought he was claiming to be God, why did he say he DID NOT make this claim?
Does ANY of what I say make ANY sense?
'Cmon now. Let's hear an AMEN. Do I hear an AMEN??
#6405 Mar 22, 2013
No the emperor DOES NOT have any clothes on.
No matter what you say, no matter what you think.
There isn't any other way to look at this, because the writing is on the board.
The red letter words of the Christ. The scripture in all of it's heady wisdom. The meaning of YHWH behind the words. The history of Christians deciding Jesus is God after all, by ROMAN emperors who were in their heart of hearts pagan.
The pure orthodoxy of every Jew since the Land of Milk and Honey. The FIRST command of YHWH and the Greatest Command of Shema, also affirmed by Jesus.
Which way WOULD you like to look at this? I have all the bases covered.
Repent or be made a fool of...
by Muslims who know your scripture better than you.
#6406 Mar 22, 2013
When I was a Sikh, some 23 years ago...
my GURU made fun of the Christian religion.
"God is three? ALL monotheistic religions know God is One. HAA HAAA."
Believe it or not, this is revelation. The first one, for those who know basics of religion in general.
How do I know this? My own history and evolution to Christianity took me there, and I am telling you in turn.
Shema is not to be taken lightly. God said to repeat it going down at night and rising in the morning for good reason.
It is the first revelation of the Judeo-Christian religion.
And not so hard to comprehend after all. God is One God. Father and Son make two. Add the persons, or hypostasis or OTHERS or HIMS. Any way you look at it, two of them DO NOT make one God.
#6407 Mar 22, 2013
Duh, what about when the Father was up there and one of the three strangers was down here with Abraham?
Or whudaboud the God up there and the one down here wrestling with Jacob?
When a Jew read the passages, did THEY see two Gods, one in heaven and another here on earth?
IF God comes to earth, then he is here and not in heaven. IF he comes to earth as mind or spirit or Word then HE can be in heaven at the same time.
The problem as I have stated with Jesus on earth and the Father in heaven is that two minds and wills inhabit two geographically juxtaposed locations.
Not Shema. Not orthodox. Not Jewishly concieved.
#6408 Mar 22, 2013
I will leave this board, IF I get a petition signed by ten or more of you, which states:
We do not believe Jesus was just a man, but also God come to earth, and we DO NOT CARE ABOUT:
1) What Jesus himself said about it.
2) What his disciples said about him.
3) What the scripture says about him.
4) What history says about him.
5) What YHWH behind (3) above says about him.
6) The first Command of the Ten
7) The Shema which states God is One of Being.
8) The fact that the Father and Son are two beings.
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