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#6348 Mar 17, 2013
Gordon Fee's First Rule of Exegesis:
1) Consider the historical context, overall.
To exegete is to extract true meaning from the scripture.
All Gordon Fee was saying was that we must consider the context the Word was in WHEN and WHERE it was written.
The God who never said he was God is one mighty odd
God after all.
If only because his main mission was to SPEAK of this God among his own and to TEACH of this God.
In fact Jesus affirms the Shema which all then knew. And he does it consistently.
They all knew God was the Father in Heaven. The Father in heaven cannot have a baby God on earth.
Er, two Gods are then contradicting Shema?
How did you get around this? How did your later ECF
Baaah wants to know. The Hebrew notion was that if the Father descends to earth, He is no longer in heaven. He can only descend as mind or Spirit.
How do I know this? How do YOU know otherwise?
Two souls in one God? Two Persons? Two beings?
Still abrogates Shema. Every Jew on the planet knows this, but you don't.
#6349 Mar 17, 2013
Argument from Silence: the Protocol of Jesus' Authority
Jesus as prophet AT LEAST had the authority to speak on behalf of YHWH.
Jesus as rabbi had AT LEAST the authority to teach ABOUT this God of the Jews.
Jesus as Lord AT LEAST had the Shaliach authority to be followed to the ends of the earth IN PLACE of their own God YHWH.
This was the authority of Jesus. And he invoked this authority by asking them to follow him. Not politely.
Directly. The Protocol of Jesus' Authority WAS invoked.
Jesus never TAUGHT them that he was God, or even made a singular statement referring to this IN THE AFFIRMATIVE SENSE. He made MANY statements DENYING that he was equal to YHWH or was YHWH himself ontologically.
The most direct denial was in John 10. He DENIES that "I and the Father are one," MEANS he was making himself the Father.
thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
In a sentence, the logic of Jesus was that ELOHIM has more than one definition, and that he never even said he was ELOHIM, only the Son of Elohim.
And all Jews knew by SHEMA that two Persons or Beings in one God is not possible.
So now we know better, from 325 A.D. on. Whoo Hoo!
I love how the masses follow the Lie.
Since: Dec 12
#6350 Mar 17, 2013
Baah: Do you have anything else you can do in your life besides posting here? Take up a hobby. Read a book. Get a life!!! Nobody wants to listen to you. Maybe thats your problem... Did your wife leave you? Did you get kicked out of church like some of the people who participate in this forum... Maybe your parents dropped you on your head when you were a baby? Do you remember??? I bet not. Obviously your stupid.. I see you live in Austin. Maybe I should hunt your sorry ass down..... I got kicked out of HH in the mid 90's. I was a young man with a young family. It was devastating at the time, and the pain and confusion of it all is still with me... I recently found this site where people have had the same experience, or know those who have. I would like to hear what they have to say and share my feelings.... But you have ruined it. You should be ashamed of yourself... I bet you are a frustrated homosexual needing some attention. Thats what you sound like. Leave us the hell alone!!!
#6351 Mar 18, 2013
I am a product of HH as you are. Problem is, I found the truth about certain things, most notably the Shema and the divinity of Christ.
Share your feelings all you want. I am the only one keeping this forum alive at all. The testimonies of the disenchanted played out for most years ago. You are not a contributor. Why don't you go away yourself if that's the way you feel.
The question in the opening title is the subject here, not whether or not you can post your testimony of your own personal experiences. This is the purpose for some, but not stated, so you are dead wrong about the purpose of this forum. Is HH a viable spiritual community, or is it a quote unquote cult?
This is the question and you are still able to share your testimony IN RELATION TO THE QUESTION.
Every post I make is IN RELATION TO THE QUESTION. And I am done with my own testimony so we go on to better and bigger things after all.
HH is awry in much of their theology. But it after all comes down to their theology and this is what I post about. I have a one-track mind, yes but this is because I found out a singular thing which changes all theology for everyone.
HH or mainstream.
You got a sob story, post it. But the better way is to find out WHY you are sobbing in the end and represent 'bad fruit'. We can talk about this if you would like.
Otherwise you are below my radar.
If nobody listens so be it. The truth will help some to get free,
here or anywhere online.
#6352 Mar 18, 2013
For the Jew a singular statement, "I am God" is not enough to convince, since they were brought up knowing the Shema or Great Command.
As rabbi, Jesus would also be the natural one to EXPLAIN how it is that the Father up in heaven and the Son on earth are both together the One God of the Hebrews.
Since NEITHER event occurred, either he said the singular short explicit statement OR explained how Shema was not contradicted then this in turn raises the BIG question.
If you don't understand what the BIG QUESTION is, then you had better think again. What DID Jesus teach?
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
#6353 Mar 18, 2013
For the Jew, signs and miracles were not evidence of the divinity of Christ, per se...only the evidence that he had a power from a supernatural source.
Either from God or Beelzebub.
The claim was made more than once it seems that he had a demon.
This would naturally exclude him from being God. God does not EVER have a demon.
The only time they said he was ontologically making himself God, was Jn 10, and I have gone over this passage ad nauseum.
My position or theological theory is that 1) the issue for them at ground zero was moot; no man is God although one man could be the Son of God or the Annointed One, the Christ.
Only the detractors made this claim, that Jesus was making himself God. EQUAL to God was more the claim than the making oneself divine. EQUAL means in authority and Jesus DID claim to be 1) Lord of the Sabbath 2) the prophet for the age 3) the Son of God.
My paradigm fits. This is because it is true.
#6354 Mar 18, 2013
Maybe I should hunt your sorry ass down. 32 Christian
Most know who I am. My 55th birthday is this month.
Still old enough to put the hurt on someone.
So come on, but I may just let you wale away. This is because my Lord might have done so.
See, he doesn't have to be God for me to treat him as my Lord and Savior.
Looks like ONE aspect of their theology didn't take.
#6355 Mar 18, 2013
My theory fits Thomas' explanation better too.
He would not believe Jesus' RESURRECTION not whether or not he was God.
All but him believed among the faithful at Ground Zero. But divinity was not on the table unless they merged the belief of RESURRECTION with DIVINITY.
He said he had to TOUCH the Christ in order to believe. This is because a disembodied dead GHOST is not touchable in Jewish world-view. So WHEN he touched the Christ, what did he say?
My Lord and my God!
My Lord and my elohim!
Would not the definition of the word, ELOHIM fit better in context of the passage? In context of what Thomas WOULD NOT believe?
To look at it your way, Thomas would not believe Christ was risen from the dead, and ended up believing not only that he was RISEN but GOD HIMSELF??
Does not THEOS translate ELOHIM in the Hebrew? So Thomas spoke Aramaic in all likelihood. Would not the Hebrew Elohim ALSO translate directly into Aramaic?
And would 'theos' naturally translate into GOD in the English? Do you see my position?
#6356 Mar 18, 2013
And IF Thomas meant Elohim rather than the One True God of us,
THEN he was stating a startling revelation.
Jesus had become the very thing (if he wasn't already) which he DID NOT SAY he was in Jn 10.
In fact, he MADE A POINT of saying HE DID NOT SAY he was ELOHIM, rather the 'SON of Elohim'.
I remind you that Elohim has at least six categories of being in the Bible:
1) disembodied dead
2) false gods
4) heavenly host or entities (Jn 10)
5) saints or prophets in the Judaic tradition
6) YHWH Elohim
And I would here add a number (7).
7) Jesus, glorified man, firstborn from among the dead.
#6357 Mar 18, 2013
What is the first reaction to my polemic here?
Baaah wants to demean Christ by taking him down to the level of a man.
The whole point of the Gospel was that a man overcame the world.
And adding to scripture never did ANY good whatsoever.
#6358 Mar 18, 2013
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
See how you pervert scripture:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the God-man Jesus Christ.
God-man is not a biblical concept, neither does the term exist in the Bible.
Fundamental to YOUR understanding.
#6359 Mar 18, 2013
You the heroic minority broke away from mainstream tradition in 1914 over the Trinity.
Breaking away again should be a piece of cake.
The remnant of the remnant. It all comes down to being committed exclusively to the biblical verses.
The canon contains the Truth. God made it so.
"The scripture cannot be broken." Believe it.
#6361 Mar 18, 2013
No CHURCH has the right to pervert or change or contradict the plain meaning of the text.
Whether in the Bible itself or in your Body.
This should be fundamentally accepted by all. Otherwise who knows the extent that the perversion can evolve to.
This country has the freedom of religion. But the Law of YHWH will never change or be a matter of vote or manipulation of men.
It is the Law of God. The Church must uphold this Law and not change it to mean something else from the original intent.
Who do you serve anyway, Law or United States law?
By this tenet, serving God's Law, the idea that Jesus is God should be illegal.
All Jews know by God's Law how two beings can make One True God CANNOT be true.
#6362 Mar 18, 2013
By the first Command of your religion, you cannot have both Father and Son be God.
The Father was God before Jesus was. He was the first God of the Jews.
Jesus becoming God makes two Gods. Only if he loses his soul and own will can two beings make one God.
Jesus had his own mind, soul and will.
Thou shalt have NO OTHER elohim before me.
Thus spoke the One God of the Jews. Is this hard to understand?
Apparently so. One plus one equals one?
#6363 Mar 18, 2013
I only point out the obvious. But you are all more scintillating than me, apparently.
The emperor is naked. How do I know? How does a child know ANYONE is naked?
He saw his dingaling.
How low do you want to speak. What I say is true from all angles. Take the high road or the low one.
You are wrong from all angles.
#6364 Mar 18, 2013
It is considered 'high Christology' to find Jesus is divine in all various forms of this concept...
How the masses have corrupted the original.
Original what? The original God of the Hebrews - what else?
If Jesus ONLY spoke of the Father as being God, then
what right have you to change this most basic thing?
#6365 Mar 18, 2013
See, you all think it is okay to change anything you want to, in order to suit your needs or your agenda or your perverted way of seeing things...
So Jesus says when you drink wine, think of his blood, and when you break bread, think of his body...
and you in your unspeakable wisdom decided that ALL alcohol is verboten.
Now what. Contradict something ELSE Jesus said. Isn't this the new name of the game?
It is now a sin to drink wine, at least for the leaders. In HH, it is across the board. Whoo Hoo!
You just made Jesus a sinner.
#6366 Mar 18, 2013
This is what 'placing burdens' upon each other means.
Laws which you like or think are good as opposed to spiritual law.
And you do not uphold the first ones. In the Bible.
And we want the Unification of all believers? What was the first thing they did at the FIRST Apostolic Conference?
They did away with Small Law. This means ceremonial. This means feast and holiday Law. This means the circumcision of the flesh, which was up until that point NOT EVEN Small Law.
They started with two general Laws. Even the Shema was not given because it is after all man's impossible Law.
To do. But now you have forgotten it completely.
Jews know what you don't. You should be ashamed.
I am. Not even the ten were given. Why was this?
Could it have been that they felt a man baptized in the Spirit HAD this law already on his heart?
Jesus did not come to abrogate but to fulfill.
This means all the Laws given first are still primal. And binding for those who will break them.
You broke Shema when you made Jesus God in 325 A.D.
The Shema will break you if you are a law-breaker.
Paul said Law Breakers in the gross sense do not go to heaven. Jesus said the rich man was not gonna make it, or that was the overall concept.
What law did the rich man break? None other than Shema, there WAS no other.
Is this one you do NOT want to break? Think about it. Truth has no options which oppose. Why take the chance?
#6367 Mar 18, 2013
Dietrich Bonhoeffer said Cheap Grace cannot be the way.
And he proves it with his life.
And what is the opposite of Cheap Grace? To uphold the Law which we would break.
What Law was that, for the German Lutherans at Holocaust Ground Zero?
Thou shalt not kill, for one.
They should have drawn the line when the Jews were rounded up and deported from their various countries occupied by Nazis. This too broke the basic Law of God.
Thou shalt not covet. Their property and possessions, yes?
Wasn't this behind all deportation?
#6368 Mar 18, 2013
Cheep Grace will find a way to perversion, it has no other route.
Historically it has proven to bear bad fruit.
You can uphold a singular confession of your own historical faith being the VIP card to heaven if you want.
Shema opposes it. This is fundamental. NOT EVEN theology per se.
The Great Command, yes? Of the Jewish Nation, you who are grafted-in Jews?
Or are you? Or then, you AREN'T??
Salvation is from the Jews. We know WHAT we worship.
Who said that.
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