How will Pastor Bob Grenier honor Nat...

How will Pastor Bob Grenier honor National Child Abuse Prevention & Awareness Month?

There are 151 comments on the www.visaliatimesdelta.com story from Apr 3, 2010, titled How will Pastor Bob Grenier honor National Child Abuse Prevention & Awareness Month? . In it, www.visaliatimesdelta.com reports that:

Pastor Bob Grenier is still ignoring his responsibility to step down from his position as leader of Calvary Chapel Vislia, after 20+ years of severely abusing his children. He still denies any wrongdoing even after his children speak out on local forum. You can read about these atrocities and actively call this man to the carpet at

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/visalia-ca/TU33QV1RQIKVU4M94

Here is an article by Phil Cline about National Child Abuse & Awareness Month

"The pictures are awful. The stories are hard to stomach. Children abandoned in parking lots, locked in closets, children with cockroaches in their ears, and children who are unable to walk due to severe malnutrition."

http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/article/20100324/opinion02/3240304/Phil-Cline-Help-to-prevent-child-abuse-neglect

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.visaliatimesdelta.com.

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Not Alone

Sacramento, CA

#1 Apr 3, 2010
Thousands of children are abused every year in Tulare County. It is our responsibility to report the abuse we see and to hold men like Pastor Bob Grenier accountable for their actions.

Sadly, Bob supporters will ignore these factual allegations and continue to help Bob Genier abuse his children.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#2 Apr 3, 2010
Children "locked in closets"....ring any bells Bob?
Charlatan!
Hurt2

Hood River, OR

#3 Apr 11, 2010
It is a very sad situation that one of the leading Pastors in Visalia, Bob Grenier of Calvary Chapel or as they call it now, Calvary of Visalia has had complaints filed against him through the Visalia Police Dept. on Friday, February 19th by his own sons who were brutally abused physically, verbally and psychologically from the time they were young boys through to the present. People of Visalia, if you don't want to believe me check the records at the Police Department. The complaints that were filed were backed up with files of documentation and eyewitness accounts of the abuse as well as people who had knowledge of the abuse while it was happening.
Taken Down

Visalia, CA

#4 Jun 9, 2010
Here's another one for the to take out in the name of a very evil little man, Bob Grenier..
Tom Dalton

Fresno, CA

#5 Jun 10, 2010
Taken Down wrote:
Here's another one for the to take out in the name of a very evil little man, Bob Grenier..
Mary had a little lamb a little lamb
Utmost

Mount Morris, MI

#6 Jun 30, 2010
Down again due to removing Who's posts and banning him. This will take some time.
Who

San Jose, CA

#8 Jul 2, 2010
Calvary Chapel Abuse.com should be up soon. It's propagating.
Alex'sect said that, Who says that:
Alex Grenier is an experienced media professional that is engaged in a multi-year hate campaign.
Alex, do you agree or disagree?
Provide your reasons.
GO.
Ps stop pretending that you are not reading this.
And YOU said this:
Down again due to removing Who's posts and banning him. This will take some time.
And Who says
I've got all the time in the world when it comes to arguing AGAINST hate campaigns.
Who

San Jose, CA

#9 Jul 2, 2010
And they ain't blocked me. Must be the "dr. Spock-like reasonable arguments.
My name is Who. Use it. You'll get used to it.
Saw the Light Early

United States

#11 Jul 2, 2010
BH2,
Good start for the site! Good job! A couple of questions remain: will we get back the old posts and will you post here as well?
Who

Los Gatos, CA

#13 Jul 2, 2010
Please respond ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD, Alex Grenier.
This "néw" idea for a website is foolhardy, since you have credibility issues.
You will own/moderate it, and your actions show that you are motivated by hate.
You will ignore reasonable questions there, just like you do on topix.
That's why, Alex Grenier, Who would like it if you would respond to Who's posts ON THIS topix.com message board.
Who would like that...how about you?
Saw the Light Early

United States

#16 Jul 3, 2010
Saw the Light Early

United States

#17 Jul 3, 2010
another:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/...

Caveat: Let the reader be discerning in perusing all the articles I've linked. Linking them here does not necessary imply an endorsement or rejection of the various writers' views. The links are provided for informational purposes only.
Saw the Light Early

United States

#18 Jul 3, 2010
Your Mom

Acampo, CA

#19 Jul 3, 2010
Is your abuser a narcissist?

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 1994, American Psychiatric Association
Edited by Rick Ross, March 2004

Is your abuser/controller a narcissistic personality?

Check the following criteria:

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity as seen through fantasy or behavior, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts.

Beware of someone you are involved with has five (or more) of the following characteristics common amongst those diagnosed with "Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.

Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).

Requires excessive admiration.

Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.

Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.

Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.

Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.

Note: These criteria are excerpted from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 1994, American Psychiatric Association.
Your Mom

Acampo, CA

#20 Jul 3, 2010
Peer pressure is an effective means to get people to fit their behavior to group norms. In cults, this works for new and old members alike, going far beyond what is generally seen in society at large. In an atmosphere that states or implies that there is only one way to be this is it, it is most important to have models around to imitate.
Emotional Manipulation

According to Cialdini, the majority of the thousands of different tactics that compliance professionals use fall into six categories, and each category is based on a psychological principle that directs human behavior. These six principles are:

Consistency. We try to justify our earlier behavior.
Reciprocity. If somebody gives us something, we try to repay in kind.
Social Proof. We try to find out what other people think is correct.
Authority. We have a deep-seated sense of duty to authority figures.
Liking. We obey people we like.
Scarcity. If we come to want something, we can be made to fear that if we wait it will be gone. The opportunity to get it may pass. We want to take it now - whatever is being offered, from an object to cosmic consciousness.
We can see how transformations occur when the six principles are skillfully put into play by cult leaders and cultic groups. For example:

Consistency. If you have made a commitment to the group and then break it, you can be made to feel guilty.
Reciprocity. If you accept the group's food and attention, you feel you should repay them.
Social proof. If you look around in the group, you will see people behaving in particular ways. You imitate what you see and assume that such behavior is proper, good, and expected.
Authority. If you tend to respect authority, and your cult leader claims superior knowledge, power, and special missions in life, you accept him as an authority.
Liking. If you are the object of love bombing and other tactics that surround you, make you feel wanted and loved, and make you like the people in the group, you feel you ought to obey these people.
Scarcity. If you are told that without the group you will miss out on living a life without stress; miss out on attaining cosmic awareness and bliss; miss out on changing the world instantly or gaining the ability to travel back in time; or miss out on whatever the group offers that is tailored to seem essential to you, you will feel you must buy in now.
Your Mom

Acampo, CA

#21 Jul 3, 2010
Captive Hearts, Captive Minds

Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships

By Madeleine L. Tobias and Janja Lalich

Chapter one excerpts - The Cultic Relationship.

Cults may be large or small. What defines them is not their size but their behavior. In addition to the larger, more publicized cults, there are small cults of less than a dozen members who follow a particular "guru"; "family cults," where the head of the family uses deceptive and excessive persuasion and control techniques; and probably the least acknowledged, the one-on-one cult.
The one-on-one cult is a deliberately manipulative and exploitative intimate relationship between two persons, often involving physical abuse of the subordinate partner. In the one-on-one cult, which we call a cultic relationship, there is a significant power imbalance between the two participants. The stronger uses his (or her) influence to control, manipulate, abuse, and exploit the other. In essence the cultic relationship is a one-on-one version of the larger group. It may even be more intense than participation in a group cult since all the attention and abuse is focused on one person, often with more damaging consequences.
Many marriages or domestic partnerships where there is spousal abuse may be characterized and explained in this way. Other one-on-one cults may be found in boss/employee situations, in pastor/worshipper milieus, in therapist/client relationships, in jailor/prisoner or interrogator/suspect situations, and in teacher/student environments (including academic, artistic, and spiritual situations - for example, a school professor, a yoga master, a martial arts instructor, or an art mentor). It is our hope that those who have suffered such individualized abuse will find much in this book to identify with and use in healing their pain.
Since the upsurge of both public and professional interest in the issue of domestic violence, there has been some recognition to the link between mind control and battering. Men or women who batter their partners sometimes use manipulative techniques similar to those found in cults. The most common include "isolation and the provocation of fear; alternating kindness and threat to produce disequilibrium; the induction of guilt, self-blame, dependency, and learned helplessness." The degree to which these features are present in a relationship affects the intensity of control and allows the relationship to be labeled cultic.
The similarities between cultic devotion and the traumatic bonding that occurs between battered individuals and their abusers are striking. An abused partner is generally made to submit to the following types of behaviors:

early verbal and/or physical dominance,
isolation/imprisonment
fear arousal and maintenance
guilt induction
contingent expressions of "love"
enforced loyalty to the aggressor and self-denunciation
promotion of powerlessness and helplessness
pathological expressions of jealousy
hope-instilling behaviors
required secrecy (13)
When psychological coercion and manipulative exploitation have been used in a one-on-one cultic relationship, the person leaving such a relationship faces issues similar to those encountered by someone leaving a cultic group.
Who

Grass Valley, CA

#22 Jul 3, 2010
Thanks. Could you respond to tge following, please?
Alex' refusal to answer Who's question in front of witnesses
coupled with
Alex' decision to start a website that he can control
when taken together equals
Alex Grenier has serious credibility issues, ie his words ain't worth the paper they are printed on.
Oh, I forgot. He doesn't write on paper. To do that, he'd gave to get off the couch.
Oh.- and the above with YOUR post suggests that Alex Grenier is well on his way to becoming a cult leader.
Perhaps you could sit down and have a heart to heart with him.
I forgot. He'll probably just ignore any question you ask that he doesn't want to answer.
Alex, you experienced media professional, you!
Who

Grass Valley, CA

#23 Jul 3, 2010
Alex Grenier, please respond to the following, and please respond on THIS message board.
Alex Grenier is an experienced media professional that is still engaged in a multi-year hate campaign
is the previous assertion more likely true, or more likely false?
The readers here are STILL waiting .
By the way, my name is STILL Who
Who

Grass Valley, CA

#24 Jul 3, 2010
And "yes" or "no" will not do--provide reasons. Thank you
Broken Hearted 2

Boise, ID

#25 Jul 3, 2010
Your Mom wrote:
Is your abuser a narcissist?
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 1994, American Psychiatric Association
Edited by Rick Ross, March 2004
Is your abuser/controller a narcissistic personality?
Check the following criteria:
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity as seen through fantasy or behavior, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts.
Beware of someone you are involved with has five (or more) of the following characteristics common amongst those diagnosed with "Narcissistic Personality Disorder."
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
Requires excessive admiration.
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
Note: These criteria are excerpted from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 1994, American Psychiatric Association.
Yes, IMO, Bob has NPD big time. Also, PTSD. I have friends and counselors who are experts who have the same opinion about him after seeing and hearing the many testimonies about him.

The excessive drug use prior to being a pastor, the Vietnam experience, the abuse he suffered as a child...then he gets thrust into a position of power over people with no formal education...and starts believing he is a "prophet of God"...Moses / CC style...and boom...recipe for disaster.

Full blown NPD, IMO.

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